"Exploration" in this game is kind of a joke. It reminds me of sight seeing through a desert. The miles and hours roll by and the coolest thing you find are occasional cactus or antelope. Oooh a biological POI (antelope eating dead grass) . Oooh a geological POI (tall rock formation with a sage bush on top) The only real hazard is that you fall asleep at the wheel and crash or run out of fuel. The game really fails to offer anything engaging or dynamic out there in the void. Just a meager handful of copy pasted things for you to snap a Polaroid of and move along.
Little to actually find?
- Thread starter Threeofseven
- Start date
This bug should have been fixed in 3.3.02. It was for me & the POIs I found at least.
We currently only have access to airless environments, I would expect variety of persistent POIs to significantly increase with the introduction of even basic atmospheric landings.
Bug fix in ED?!:x
![BigBANGtheory [VR]](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/71/71385.jpg?1644873788){kind=avatar}
Its not imho the spawn rates that's the issue its there being stuff that is genuinely new (to the player, and non-codex) and findable.
Should there be new stuff in every second system? No of course not but there is a threshold every player has where they just throw their hands in the air and give up on exploration because:
1. there is in fact nothing new to find
2. there is the perception that there is nothing new to find
3. if there is something new to find it would be extreme luck to stumble upon it in a large procedural universe.
So what you have left for an awful lot of explorers is a means to survey systems and worlds and take some photos, great if you like doing that I guess.
So how would you make enough "genuinely new" content to satisfy 100,000 (1) players all combing the galaxy? It's "genuinely new" for what, a week after a release introducing it?
The development team is tiny compared to the playerbase. No matter how much new content the devs put out there, it'll be consumed MUCH faster than it can be produced. Production takes MUCH more effort than consumption.
Nevermind that exploration, while very popular, is not the main thrust of the game. The main thrust is the Bubble and the activities that happen in that, so the DevTeam also has to satisfy those players with new content.
Expecting them to come up with genuinely new content to satisfy everybody is ludicrous. Even NMS, whose entire raison'd'etre was procedurally-generated lifeforms gets criticised for being too samey, and they spent *years and years* on their procgen. There's really only so much you can do. Either make it so rare, that it really will take a long time to find in which case people will whinge and moan and complain about never finding anything, or make it less rare and have people whinge and moan and complain that it's everywhere and all the same.
Could it be better than what it is? For sure - but will it ever be "good enough"? Doubtful.
If you have -concrete- suggestions in how to solve this, I'm sure the DevTeam would love to hear them.
1) I have no idea how big the currently active playerbase is..
Spitball time about plant life - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...scientifically-plausible-plant-life?p=7370418
Deleted member 38366
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How much did they really add though?
The Metal Spikey thing (in 6 or 7 Colors, making them "different" discoveries)
The Space Squid thing (in similar variations as above)
The Space Cloud (in 6 Colors, making them "different" discoveries)
The Mineral Spheres (solid or meshed)
The Energy Anomaly (again, in a few different colors)
Even existing Planetary Biologicals and Volcanism got stretched and Copy&Pasted to the maximum possible as well. 1 new color of the exact same = new discovery.
That's not a whole lot and feels more like a Pokemon approach - gotta catch 'em all for the personal Badge/Achievement Unlocked! Collection.
I think I've traversed some 50k LY outside of Nebulae and only ever once encountered (bugged/unscannable) Anemones.
Almost all of my Codex "discoveries"? Right inside the Colonia bubble or in Tourist Spots (in or near a Nebula).
The absolutely last places in the Galaxy an Explorer would normally choose to discover something new, these locations are rather over-explored sightseeing spots.
IMHO that feels pretty messed up, might as well place Tourist Beacons and give Passenger Missions to these "Codex Discoveries".
So yeah, after initially looking good - the Codex and its content feels quite "slim". Good idea, just lacking more than 5min design jobs or recycled assets someone found, inflated by slightly different colors.
The "rumored" part (potentially the most interesting part of Codex) already feels like the "Cargo Insurance" or "Sector Permits" entries.
The Metal Spikey thing (in 6 or 7 Colors, making them "different" discoveries)
The Space Squid thing (in similar variations as above)
The Space Cloud (in 6 Colors, making them "different" discoveries)
The Mineral Spheres (solid or meshed)
The Energy Anomaly (again, in a few different colors)
Even existing Planetary Biologicals and Volcanism got stretched and Copy&Pasted to the maximum possible as well. 1 new color of the exact same = new discovery.
That's not a whole lot and feels more like a Pokemon approach - gotta catch 'em all for the personal Badge/Achievement Unlocked! Collection.
I think I've traversed some 50k LY outside of Nebulae and only ever once encountered (bugged/unscannable) Anemones.
Almost all of my Codex "discoveries"? Right inside the Colonia bubble or in Tourist Spots (in or near a Nebula).
The absolutely last places in the Galaxy an Explorer would normally choose to discover something new, these locations are rather over-explored sightseeing spots.
IMHO that feels pretty messed up, might as well place Tourist Beacons and give Passenger Missions to these "Codex Discoveries".
So yeah, after initially looking good - the Codex and its content feels quite "slim". Good idea, just lacking more than 5min design jobs or recycled assets someone found, inflated by slightly different colors.
The "rumored" part (potentially the most interesting part of Codex) already feels like the "Cargo Insurance" or "Sector Permits" entries.
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Pretty much. Once you've found 5 you have seen it all.
There is a system in Trifid nebula with 3 different Lagrange clouds and some planets with Bark mounds and Space pumpkins. When I entered the first Lagrange cloud there were spikes, mineral deposits and Amoeba right next to each other.
With just one system you have the biological section of the Codex covered.
But wait, there is more to the Codex you say???
You can find the same dozen discoveries IN EVERY SECTOR OF THE GALAXY!!!!!
And you get a special entry IF YOU ARE THE FIRST IN EACH SECTOR!!!
I really hate how they tried to make something COMPETITIVE out of exploring with the Codex.
Things like this just show to me that FDEV really don't understand their players.
The Codex is a disappointment to me.
I expected an encyclopedia, but what I got is a leader board.
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Absolutely this. If everybody easily finds the rare things, they can't be that hidden and that rare. Also, what many people apparently don't get: the new tools shift things into the game. Formerly a number of discoveries were made by data-mining the game files. The art of exploration was not in-game, but on the computer science skill set of the player.
The new tools now give those players, who rather play instead of taking game files apart, also a good chance to find things. I think that's a step into the right direction. It still means that rare things have to remain rare. Only by being so, they are special and worth finding, no matter if you locate them by data-mining your game file or by actually playing the game.
I think that the issue is less about rarity than it is repetition. The life in Elite isn’t at all rare – you can find the same handful of species across the entire galaxy, which is ludicrous. The new tools are great, it's just that the content added to compliment them is pretty meagre at present.
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Hah yeah, these Lagrange residents seem to have some pretty potent hyperspace abilities! (Can't really claim all these distant colonies are 'convergent evo' or anything when they're all classified as the same creature etc).
Guess they're all seeding passing Thargs or something... (Actually how about that for a lore explanation? They're seeding us...
. We could get a bonus cred rating for seeding new locations during a trip - or a fine for starting a proto-life conflict if we seed near a populated region )Seriously though... Increased variety of both visuals and behaviours would definitely help with this kind of stuff. (I get the feeling they've only permitted themselves a narrow range of factors to designate the life regions at the moment though, but it still feels like some proc gen dials being spun on each of the similar beasties might have added something. Toying with silly things like 'head fronds longer in strong light conditions' / 'More carparace in high dust locations' etc. And more ideally, behaviourial changes: Faster motion in high plasma locations / more defensive behaviours in small populations etc)
That's all just one more big bucket of proc gen headaches though
. (As much as I'd personally cool with finding bugged out squids who zoom into everything and then emit purple light explosions ). And the gains might be greater later when there are more locations & location variables available on planets. A useful test case perhaps, for a more basic and bespoke system though. If the plan is to have more region factors and proper proc gen outputs populating the codex beasties down the line.
Definitely this, very much this...
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I have to admit that I am a bit disappointed in the limited diversity of what is being found, I hope that we just haven't found it all yet but can't help but think that the copy/paste methodology was the wrong tack to take and that using a procedural system would have been far better.
I think what they need (especially important once we have atmospheric landings) is a way to procedural generate simple organisms.
Well its not really my job as a consumer to provide the solutions that is ridiculous.
But if you want some suggestions its simple really you mask it, and you provide unique clues to unique locations in a vast procedural galaxy. There must be a ton of different ways to trigger that.
Remember its all about uniqueness to the player not the whole player community.
What you don't do is spell it out with pictures and co-ordinates in the Codex instead you give clues e.g. "our research suggests there are up to 4 different types of <this thing>, and it appears to be in the presence of <something> in systems around <some point of reference>"
In some cases you could have the items of interest disappear, taken by the player or it disintegrating after analysis to stop the "here is how I did it" YouTube spoilers.
And where it does come to genuinely undiscovered stuff again some direction to narrow down the search, some assurance it isn't locked behind some glass wall waiting to be added.
New trait discovered: Object is inelastic, and fixed in position. Hull now 2.8%.
New trait discovered: Object cannot be fired on.
New trait discovered: Object cannot be fired on.
Deleted member 38366
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Dinosaurs?
Hm... now that you say that... why not take Planets that acc. Stellar Forge once had an Atmosphere - lost it - and it buried primitive life that once existed eons ago?
On quite a few Star types, it wouldn't be unrealistic to :
- scan FSS with result "10 Biological"
- fly Ship down, only to initially see... nothing
- deploy SRV and drive around... only to discover "Bone Fragments", "passive Bacteria", "Carbon/Silicate/Unknown DNS signatures", "Unknown Artifact" or Fossils when within 45m (following unusual Wave Audio)
That's where the Codex could really lift off. A formerly Biologically active Planet that lost its life but there's still remains to be found. Could be anything - it's pure SciFi for the most part.
And it'd be different than approaching the usual 2-4km sized area of well-known, classic "Biologicals", even involve the SRV for good measure.
And should Atmospheric landings ever become a thing, even more so.
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Ah, so did it fix anything discovered prior to the patch?
I'm glad to read that more people are seeing the lack of content. Sure they added new stuff in Q4. But how is it possible for them to state that their team grew to a 100 due to our continuous support, but that same team producing so little new content for the game after all this time. New content in the form of copy & pasted assets with a little variety like already mentioned grows old fast. A lazy way of adding new content. Also consider how bugged the update was after release. Then consider how often they actually produce bug fix updates between content updates. What are they doing with all that time? And consider they scrapped things, especially the improved ice planets many were looking forward to. I'm not impressed, not at all.
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