"A mile wide but an inch deep."

[Captain Jack Sparrow]

The thing is, there are some gamers who need their hand held. They need to be told to do this, this and this. If not, they get bored. Elite is not a game for that type of gamer. This game requires you think and blaze your own path and figure out your objectives. If you can't do that, you're going to get bored very quickly or fall into a self inflicted grind just to get ____ ship or to get ____ rank. There is plenty to do in this game. No game has ever held my attention this long, that says a lot. But I heard this complaint from players in some of the different private Elite groups I played with and I've noticed that a lot of them will complain about things in this game, issues they like to call them, but they are issues they created. And they have no objective. It's just log in and grind for the ranks or ships, because they have no imagination. Example, played with a new player who would spend all day flying boom data missions trying to rank up to get a Cutter. The whole time complaining about the grind. Turned around and did it for the Vette. That's self inflicted. He created the grind. Then he got the ships and complained he was bored because he no desire to pvp, explore, trade, participate in CG's, Thragoid hunt/research, etc. And you get others who are similar. "I don't care about the Thargoids, I haven't even seen one yet. I don't do Engineering, it's stupid. I don't do PVP. Exploration is boring. I don't do CG because of griefers. Smuggling is not my thing." Then later that day "This game has no content!!!". If you ignore the content in the game, then this game becomes very shallow. I'm not saying the game is not flawed and there are some things I would love to see implemented, but I disagree with the inch deep comment.

 

[Ian Skippy]

This should be pinned; some people are obsessed with credits, materials and doing things the fastest way possible like it is a race or something.

Its how gamers have been conditioned: do boring stuff for a long time so you can enjoy the endgame. Some cant even fathom having fun and immediately look for ways to grind.

 

[dannysquid]

Since the last patch I've actually felt the game now has enough in it that if I get tired of one bit there's another bit I've forgotten about. It feels like a genuinely great game to me now. Although I worry that to new players there's now so much going on, with so many controls and gameplay subtleties that it might be a very forbidding thing to get into. I'm not convinced ELITE (which was a gigantic popular smash hit, adored by 12 year-olds and with TV ads and everything in its original format) should actually be some sort of forbidding hardcore thing.

 

[Guest193293]

The thing is, there are some gamers who need their hand held. They need to be told to do this, this and this. If not, they get bored. Elite is not a game for that type of gamer. This game requires you think and blaze your own path and figure out your objectives. If you can't do that, you're going to get bored very quickly or fall into a self inflicted grind just to get ____ ship or to get ____ rank. There is plenty to do in this game. No game has ever held my attention this long, that says a lot. But I heard this complaint from players in some of the different private Elite groups I played with and I've noticed that a lot of them will complain about things in this game, issues they like to call them, but they are issues they created. And they have no objective. It's just log in and grind for the ranks or ships, because they have no imagination. Example, played with a new player who would spend all day flying boom data missions trying to rank up to get a Cutter. The whole time complaining about the grind. Turned around and did it for the Vette. That's self inflicted. He created the grind. Then he got the ships and complained he was bored because he no desire to pvp, explore, trade, participate in CG's, Thragoid hunt/research, etc. And you get others who are similar. "I don't care about the Thargoids, I haven't even seen one yet. I don't do Engineering, it's stupid. I don't do PVP. Exploration is boring. I don't do CG because of griefers. Smuggling is not my thing." Then later that day "This game has no content!!!". If you ignore the content in the game, then this game becomes very shallow. I'm not saying the game is not flawed and there are some things I would love to see implemented, but I disagree with the inch deep comment.

Damn, have some rep! Perfectly resume the situation of many players.

 

[AlexAndTheDJ]

The thing is, there are some gamers who need their hand held. They need to be told to do this, this and this. If not, they get bored. Elite is not a game for that type of gamer. This game requires you think and blaze your own path and figure out your objectives. If you can't do that, you're going to get bored very quickly...

Sure, but that doesn't mean to say that gamers who enjoy the freedom don't also get bored. Myself, I would love nothing more than to disappear into the black, discovering the mysteries of the galaxy. Fallen civilisations, ancient artifacts, crashed explorers. . . but aside from the forced thargoid/guardian narrative there's none of this. Exploration loses its meaning if there's nothing to discover. Exploration is empty. Yes you may see a "pretty" site here and there, but the only path to create is ultimately a path to nothing.

I understand fdev want to be scientifically accurate (to a certain degree) with their game, but with the leap of belief in things like Frame Shift Drives, it wouldn't be too dissimilar to include discoverable entities. No story, no "go here and find this", just stuff to discover yourself.

 

[Guest193293]

Myself, I would love nothing more than to disappear into the black, discovering the mysteries of the galaxy

Well what are you waiting for?

Ancient artifacts, crashed explorers. . . but aside from the forced thargoid/guardian narrative there's none of this.

Ancient Artefact, Shipwreck.

Exploration loses its meaning if there's nothing to discover. Exploration is empty

Points_of_Interest
Signal_Sources
Structures
Alien life

Raxxla
Project Dynasty
Soontill

Q-Type_Anomaly
P-Type_Anomaly
E-Type_Anomaly

 

[Ian Skippy]

Well what are you waiting for?



Ancient Artefact, Shipwreck.

You know what he means. If FD were to use procgen to generate ruins of ancient civs etc, that would be far more interesting.

Cue atmo planets, they offer an appropriate backdrop for it.

 

[AlexAndTheDJ]

Well what are you waiting for?



Ancient Artefact, Shipwreck.

I often journey out into deep space. Nothing of note to find.

Not sure if youre joking with those links tbh. Procedurally generated spam? No, thank you. Ah the excitement when I saw my first shipwreck. "Wow, this must be a pretty good find!" - the despair after finding countless identical shipwrecks, with some random canisters of crap. The same with crashed Nav Beacons. The first time I got that signal on my SRV I thought I was onto something good. "Ah well, maybe next time" I thought. 500+ crashed Nav Beacons later and still just the same stock rubbish. Now I get that signal on my SRV and I know it's gonna be another Nav Beacon, and every time I have to go look just in case. Einstein would dub me insane for doing that. . .

 

[B1rdy]

Not necessarily. I didn't mind doing the old mining mechanic but there is no way in hell I was going to mine 500 tons in one sitting just to make Selene Jean happy (I think I am about 30 short of the total required). As said, it is about not doing anything too much that it becomes a grind.

You see, there is a problem. If the old mining actually was more involving, even with a specific goal, you probably would do it throughout you whole gaming time window.

Afraid I have not used ED Engineer so couldn't comment. I just fly to the engineer in question and unlock them as much as I can with my stored materials and pin the blueprints that I am interested. I do agree though it would be nicer if you could plan in advance and maybe this will come.

Yes, the problems will be more noticeable, if you want to upgrade more than 2 or three modules.

By the very nature that exploration can be a solitary activity, then no there are no exclusive mechanics although I note the new exploration tools can be used in multicrew (making a Spock-esque science officer role potentially viable).

Even MC isn't that compatible with DW2, because the crewmate needs to leave his ship behind and, the list time I tried, the crew member would actually get 0 rewards for scanning.

From a multiplayer perspective, what I would like to see is a more complex market with the ability to sell materials and crafted items. I personally have no immediate desire to do the Guardians missions to get a jump range boost, but if someone made the driver booster available for 50million credits (for example) I would probably buy it.

The problem is it would encourage trading outside of the game.

 

[Deadlock-3000]

Points_of_Interest
Signal_Sources
Structures
Alien life

Raxxla
Project Dynasty
Soontill

Q-Type_Anomaly
P-Type_Anomaly
E-Type_Anomaly

So basically the screaming near-infinity of space has about six different things in it (discounting the made up conspiracy nonsense like Raxxla). Six divided by an arbitrarily large number equals nearly zero. And that's why the game feels so shallow. Making some of them a slightly different pastel shade, or swapping out the asset for a vent for the asset of a spongy tree, doesn't really cut the mustard.

 

[B1rdy]

I don't know, that seems to me to be highly linked to how specific a goal someone is choosing for themselves. I'd also suggest that some things are very much an artefact of asking how to do things in, say, the quickest way, and then treating that as the only way. Take this, for example:

If you were actually doing the Guardian stuff, that's going to take you to a variety of sites. The first site you find the pylon puzzle, you work the puzzle out there. You might even try it a couple more times to see what happens. Then you'll move on to another site. When you reach another one with pylons, you might do it again - the layouts probably going to be different so it's probably going to happen pretty naturally as you explore the site. And so on as you go to more sites. And there you go, the sense of having to repeat the puzzle isn't there as it's happened naturally, and you've picked up a load of mats while you've been doing it.

First of all, you have to fly away from the bubble 700LY and more. Away from anything you might be interested in. Doing the puzzle at different locations, just doesn't change enough remain interesting. You will be just doing the same activity with some slight variation. Additionally you have travelling times, which are not that exciting. In the end will remain one way to gain access to those modules. You could also argue that completing the puzzle, after you figured it out, is not that much fun.

If people choose to instead not do the stuff in the more natural manner, and instead find ways to focus purely on getting mats as quickly as possible, there's got to be an acceptance that there's some consequences to that approach, one of which is that it might all feel forced (because it is being forced). Another consequence of that approach is that it is voluntarily disregarding a load of content, and content which arguably adds quite a bit of depth to the game, which ties back to the subject of the thread. Now if people take the responsibility for that and acknowledge that they are cutting themselves out of stuff then fine. If they cut themselves out of a load of stuff and then go on about the game lacking content or the game lacking depth, then that's a different matter. (Just to be clear, I'm talking in general terms here and not aiming that at anyone in particular.)

I know what you mean, I have described it as playing outside the indented way. But with regards to Guardian stuff, that does not apply, because you can only get them at some remote location, you are not coming across "naturally". You have to specifically get there.

I can say that doing the site(s) was fun. Going somewhere at that point completely new, very atmospheric, exploring the site, finding a load of new structures not seen at the Ancient Ruins, encountering some actual activity and resistance to intrusion, working out how to deal with those defences, discovering the pylons, working out that how to activate them, figuring out the last part with the relic, and activating the orb, and seeing some real activity in the sites whereas the Ancient Ruins were inactive. Yeah, it was pretty great actually!

Yes, for the first and maybe second time. But then it is just repetition. Edit: The mechanics are not holding up so well, when repeated.

Edit:

Not really to me to be honest. Personally I expect to be playing as an independent pilot in the early 3300s, and I don't particularly expect the early 3300s to be orientated around allowing me to get and upgrade ships easily and conveniently. Now that's not to say that I wouldn't like to see it being made a bit more convenient, I hasten to add. If Inara wasn't around I would do what I've done in the past (and am doing to a certain extent with a new alt account) - make notes of what's needed, take screenshots, or take photos of it. And yes it would be good to have a way to record and check what mats are needed in game rather than out of game.

Why should a game be inconvenient in the first place? Isn't that the exact opposite people play games for? (I am aware that certain games apply inconvenience to drive gamers to pay for micro transactions - a bad design choice for customers).

The rest of my view on it then has two angles:

- If ED was a finished game, then yes, I would think it's very daft that there's no in-game facility to make a record of what mats are needed for engineering (once you've unlocked the engineer and they've told you).

I get that, but how much time passed since Engineers were introduced and even reworked?

Fair enough. In that case there's the PGs. Fuel and Repair limpets. Wings (for joint travel and materials gathering if someone's lacking equipment). Squadrons (& squadron bookmarks). Multicrew (to join players out in the black, and for players out in the black to join things elsewhere).

PGs is just a basic MP modes, doesn't add anything specifically to (DW2) exploration. Limpets granted, have some relevance, but they don't make exploration any more fun, are they? And they are not even specific to exploration. Mats can't be shared and Wings per se is a basic feature to make MP/ coop even possible. Squadrons aka bookmark sharing, again, very basic. Regarding MC I have commented in another post.

Was there something else that you had in mind?

I couldn't share here without being banned. ;-P

 

[Guest193293]

So basically the screaming near-infinity of space has about six different things in it (discounting the made up conspiracy nonsense like Raxxla). Six divided by an arbitrarily large number equals nearly zero. And that's why the game feels so shallow. Making some of them a slightly different pastel shade, or swapping out the asset for a vent for the asset of a spongy tree, doesn't really cut the mustard.

I see, someone ate too much salt. It's okay, it will pass

 

[AlexAndTheDJ]

I see, someone ate too much salt. It's okay, it will pass

You're highlighting junk like POI's and Signal Sources as things to satiate an explorers appetite. . .

Do you even Elite, bro?

 

[thistle]

I see, someone ate too much salt. It's okay, it will pass

But the same people seem to *keep* eating too much, again and again [yesnod]

 

[Guest193293]

You're highlighting junk like POI's and Signal Sources as things to satiate an explorers appetite. . .

Do you even Elite, bro?

I'm sorry, really sorry..I did not know that every players saw everything in the game and that you were talking for every explorers, my bad.

 

[B1rdy]

The thing is, there are some gamers who need their hand held. They need to be told to do this, this and this. If not, they get bored.

So you think, if they game showed the player directly to visit 45 Guardian sites and "solve" the puzzle, it would be significantly better? lol
You seem to miss the point. If we were talking about a game like GTA V, where someone punches cows all day long to gain strength, I'd agree on self imposed grind. But that is hardly comparable to ED.

 

[AlexAndTheDJ]

I'm sorry, really sorry..I did not know that every players saw everything in the game and that you were talking for every explorers, my bad.

Um, whether the POI is a crashed ship with canisters of tea, or a crashed ship with canisters of bio waste. . . its the same procedurally generated POI, with absolutely no exploration value whatsoever.

I mean, Christ! Do you have to know every strain of cucumber to know its just water disguised as fruit?

Honestly, I go back to my point about intellect being a contributing factor.

 

[Shotgun2097]

So basically the screaming near-infinity of space has about six different things in it (discounting the made up conspiracy nonsense like Raxxla). Six divided by an arbitrarily large number equals nearly zero. And that's why the game feels so shallow. Making some of them a slightly different pastel shade, or swapping out the asset for a vent for the asset of a spongy tree, doesn't really cut the mustard.

tbh irl has 1, job 2, family 3,playtime 4, home 5, food , 6 , debts not in any particular order and they come in all different shades but there ya go

 

[AlexAndTheDJ]

tbh irl has 1, job 2, family 3,playtime 4, home 5, food , 6 , debts not in any particular order and they come in all different shades but there ya go

Tbh, IRL is, well, real life. A video game is a form of entertainment, which lacks entertainment in some areas

 

[Deadlock-3000]

tbh irl has 1, job 2, family 3,playtime 4, home 5, food , 6 , debts not in any particular order and they come in all different shades but there ya go

Well, quite. Which is why I play games. It's called escapism. Except in ED's case, not so much.