Behind The HGE Fix

[cmdrrdmc]

Its easier to just use a mat trader.

It's easier to use an exploit like this to grind imperial shielding and use a mat trader than to look for a mythical pharmaceutical isolators HGE.

 

[Stigbob]

It's easier to use an exploit like this to grind imperial shielding and use a mat trader than to look for a mythical pharmaceutical isolators HGE.

I don't cheat, grind or feel a need to do anything right now. So for me the traders are fine.

 

[Vardaugas]

Just be happy they're not ban happy about exploits.

 

[Alwayslate]

It's not a desynchronization issue. It's an issue that almost everything you see in Elite, other than mission boards and BGS data, is actually generated by your client. If you look at the in-game bandwith monitor you'll find that very little data is transferred to FD's servers while you are playing the game. The reason these types of loopholes exist is because Elite uses a P2P architecture instead of a client-server model. FD's servers aren't generating the USS, your client is, and that is why it repopulates the USS in that manner.

That is also why there is no actual "fix" for combat logging. FD knew this when they decided to use a much cheaper P2P architecture instead of a client-server model and that is not going to change. The best the FD can do is try to "monitor" combat logging but with the game being so unstable FD can't reliably determine if someone's client has crashed, if there was a problem with someone's internet connection or if they have intentionally task-killed the client. That is why FD has not yet implemented any "consequences" for suspected combat logging, they don't have the time or resources to properly investigate each case to be certain that combat logging was, in fact, involved rather than a game crash or other issue.

Sad but reasonable.

 

[Stigbob]

Sad but reasonable.

P2P and cosmetics sales were the alternative to a subscription IIRC.

 

[bootsam]

Why am I always the last to find stuff out.

Thanks OP.

 

[Flin]

It's not a desynchronization issue. It's an issue that almost everything you see in Elite, other than mission boards and BGS data, is actually generated by your client. If you look at the in-game bandwith monitor you'll find that very little data is transferred to FD's servers while you are playing the game. The reason these types of loopholes exist is because Elite uses a P2P architecture instead of a client-server model. FD's servers aren't generating the USS, your client is, and that is why it repopulates the USS in that manner.

That is also why there is no actual "fix" for combat logging. FD knew this when they decided to use a much cheaper P2P architecture instead of a client-server model and that is not going to change. The best the FD can do is try to "monitor" combat logging but with the game being so unstable FD can't reliably determine if someone's client has crashed, if there was a problem with someone's internet connection or if they have intentionally task-killed the client. That is why FD has not yet implemented any "consequences" for suspected combat logging, they don't have the time or resources to properly investigate each case to be certain that combat logging was, in fact, involved rather than a game crash or other issue.

Conversely, I was in a middle of finishing up a CZ and got disconnected twice. Once I was able to get back into the middle, but the progress reset. The other time I got back in and all I got was debris.

So, if I was FD I would error on disconnection error in this case. Might be easier to exit and restart on consoles, but sounds like a pain for PCs.

 

[Moriarte]

P2P and cosmetics sales were the alternative to a subscription IIRC.

For someone with tunnel vision, yes, subscription is the only alternative.

It was a cheap move from people who otherwise did great.

 

[Stigbob]

For someone with tunnel vision, yes, subscription is the only alternative.

It was a cheap move from people who otherwise did great.

If you don't like P2P you should do better pre purchase research, I did and its why I've no issues with it at all. Buyer beware.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

It's not a desynchronization issue. It's an issue that almost everything you see in Elite, other than mission boards and BGS data, is actually generated by your client. If you look at the in-game bandwith monitor you'll find that very little data is transferred to FD's servers while you are playing the game. The reason these types of loopholes exist is because Elite uses a P2P architecture instead of a client-server model. FD's servers aren't generating the USS, your client is, and that is why it repopulates the USS in that manner.

That is also why there is no actual "fix" for combat logging. FD knew this when they decided to use a much cheaper P2P architecture instead of a client-server model and that is not going to change. The best the FD can do is try to "monitor" combat logging but with the game being so unstable FD can't reliably determine if someone's client has crashed, if there was a problem with someone's internet connection or if they have intentionally task-killed the client. That is why FD has not yet implemented any "consequences" for suspected combat logging, they don't have the time or resources to properly investigate each case to be certain that combat logging was, in fact, involved rather than a game crash or other issue.

I sorta solved combat logging about a year or so ago.
I'm 99% sure FD read my suggestion, and it's basically forum approved (has a few holes, but no idea is fool proof), and is seemingly "doable".

But I haven't heard any kind of official word from FD whether it is actually doable.

 

[Moriarte]

If you don't like P2P you should do better pre purchase research, I did and its why I've no issues with it at all. Buyer beware.

Try to tell your father what he Should do, I didn’t ask for your advice. I was commenting on your tunnel vision.

 

[Deadlock-3000]

I mean, the game mechanic must be engaging and trail-blazing if people are willing to pull their network cable or sit and watch the entire loading sequence rather than play the game as intended.

 

[Stigbob]

Try to tell your father what he Should do, I didn’t ask for your advice. I was commenting on your tunnel vision.

You're the one annoyed by being blindsided about a pre existing widely discussed well known feature in the video game you chose to buy. Maybe if you took your blinkers off to other better approaches to buying video games you'd be a happier gamer, just like me.

 

[Stigbob]

I mean, the game mechanic must be engaging and trail-blazing if people are willing to pull their network cable or sit and watch the entire loading sequence rather than play the game as intended.

Cheats always cheat, don't worry about it.

 

[Crank Larson]

Hmmmm.... I actually like the new USS system. Didn't take me long to find all the mats I needed to upgrade my FSD for DW2 (this was on a new account, so I had to unlock Felicity and get all the mats for grade 5) - a couple of evenings (four hours or so). I don't consider this an unreasonable time in the slightest. I do much prefer that USS's are now timed and persistent.

Besides, material brokers mean that you don't have to look for specific materials anymore, which is another huge improvement.

If an exploit exists, (some) people will use it. That's human nature. I've certainly used a few of the ones that have appeared in E: D from time to time. It's up to the player, really. The only exploit that was of any concern was the God Roll engineering (previous iteration of engineering), and FD sorted that one out. Credit exploits or material exploits really aren't important.

 

[Moriarte]

You're the one annoyed by being blindsided about a pre existing widely discussed well known feature in the video game you chose to buy. Maybe if you took your blinkers off to other better approaches to buying video games you'd be a happier gamer, just like me.

Not only chose to buy, I bought 2 copies back @ game launch. You know, you seem a strange fella - you feel I need your advices, then, when your unasked advices are ignored you feel that I am annoyed.. (I’m not) Then you want to enlighten me about approaches (!) to buying video games. And if that wouldn’ be enough - you want to make me a happier gamer? Did I already tell you who to consult about advices?

Anyway, it all began with you making stupid remark about game design few posts back, just so you won’t forget in whiteknighting rush. Now you have my permission to type words about me being “annoyed“ cause I gotta go.

 

[[VR] M4st0d0n]

Since this is already public to my community, I'm gonna be that guy and spoil it for everyone.

HGEs (and other USSs of materials) won't expire as fixed if you scoop the materials and then exit to desktop or task-kill, which ever is faster.

I dont think it's an exploit. IMO servers are just that bad, they wont register you emptying the site so it's kept local.

Nerds can argue all they want, task manager is a part of Windows since 3.1. Not Elite 3.1, Windows 3.1. Stupid game design is stupid.

 

[Stigbob]

Not only chose to buy, I bought 2 copies back @ game launch. You know, you seem a strange fella - you feel I need your advices, then, when your unasked advices are ignored you feel that I am annoyed.. (I’m not) Then you want to enlighten me about approaches (!) to buying video games. And if that wouldn’ be enough - you want to make me a happier gamer? Did I already tell you who to consult about advices?

Well done, I guess.

Anyway, it all began with you making stupid remark about game design few posts back, just so you won’t forget in whiteknighting rush. Now you have my permission to type words about me being “annoyed“ cause I gotta go.

I notice you can't actually source this mythical post.

 

[zipline]

I guess most cmdrs wouldn't use this exploit if fdev would just adjust the mat trader ratios as 6:1 at same level is a total joke, and to add insult to injury, after a trade the mat trader has the nerve to say we both profited!

 

[Ian Skippy]

I just play the game, and that gives me all the stuff I need. I engineered piles of ships. But there are always people who want something now, and those will always find some grindy, exploity and terribly unfun way to do so. And they'll then complain and whine about how they are not having fun. So whatever. If people want to spend their lives force-quiting a program, rebooting, re-scooping and quitting again: have fun. Nobody is forcing you to do so however, so if you do at least dont blame others for wasting your time.