Combat Bonds and Opposition Stations

[FrogsFriend]

I'm assuming battles, bonds and missions all add to the daily win/lose metric, but in differing amounts and probably scaled down in that order.

I've won a war as a Close Victory by completing a single CZ on the last day (showing as a draw, both sides dominated 0 days until then) and not handing in any bonds.
There was a second war going on in the system and all CZs belonged to that other war and were located around the inner planets, except one single Medium CZ for the war I participated in, at the outermost planet +6000Ls out.
The other war ended in a draw with 0 days dominated for both sides.
Very low, but not zero, traffic in the system and one small outpost near the entry star. Refinery/Extraction system with nothing special going for it.

Not a perfect test but a good indicator I think.

 

[Schlack]

Sorry to say my Froggy friend but the exact opposite mechanic is currently in effect.

Winning a CZ has no effect on winning a war, only handing in Combat Bonds. The good side to this is that winning a CZ has no effect on your standing with either faction.


As a side note, even if it did it wouldn't be the end of the world because as long as you take a few missions with the faction you're opposing and complete them during the week of war (for +++Rep rewards if possible) you can actually boost your rep with an opposing faction (while they gain no extra INF because that's tied to handing in Combat Bonds exclusively) while at the same time gleefully murdering their pilots en mass to win your factions war.

They say War is Hell, perhaps the BGS is Purgatory.

This isnt correct - at least everywhere. Cz wins do, for the most part, work as intended. In some wars we and others have found them to be inefffective. The inconsistency us infuriating and we havent yet discerned a pattern to the bug.

 

[Jmanis]

Just my opinion, but regardless of the current functionality (which based entirely on the above, we collectively don't have a clue QED)... I'd argue the following should help win a war:
- Missions
- CZ clearance
- Related USS scenarios

These represent strategic or tactical victories for a faction. CZ clearnances should help the most (and in varying amounts), USS scenarios a middling amount, and missions the least, up to equal to a related USS scenario.

In particular, Combat Bonds should *not* affect the war if missions do have an effect, since massacre missions have been reintroduced. They're just an after-the-fact reward for a commander, where the action has already been undertaken (and would remove the need to dock if hostile)

 

[Hacker#451563]

This isnt correct - at least everywhere. Cz wins do, for the most part, work as intended. In some wars we and others have found them to be inefffective. The inconsistency us infuriating and we havent yet discerned a pattern to the bug.

I've had a situation recently when I won 3 battles and handed in no Bonds. The next day was a draw.
The system I'm in does not seem to have any others working it (although due to all the usual stuff I could be wrong) then I handed my bonds in and won 2 more battles and after the tick I was on a close victory.

This whole situation is an exercise in frustration due to the lack of transparency and bugs.

 

[Schlack]

I've had a situation recently when I won 3 battles and handed in no Bonds. The next day was a draw.
The system I'm in does not seem to have any others working it (although due to all the usual stuff I could be wrong) then I handed my bonds in and won 2 more battles and after the tick I was on a close victory.

This whole situation is an exercise in frustration due to the lack of transparency and bugs.

I agree wholeheartedly with the last sentiment!!

Our experience in 3.3 with one of our main factions has been one of constant conflict, at one point one faction had 25 concurrent conflicts (some others had more!). Fun times for our more blood-thirsty cmdrs but a little excessive. Other than the BGS state constipation the majority of these conflicts seem to have been operating correctly (in the context of known bugs). Some had cmdr opposition and/or heavy traffic. A small number of conflicts were not responsive to either CZ action or bonds, you seem to have been similarly afflicted. With the purported negative action bug fix (actual fix tbc depending on test results) we are hoping to be able to identify more clearly identify what this particular bug is.

 

[Dommarraa]

Just to add 1 more to the mix. It appears that Handing in Bounties also counts for Win.
Observation - In a few low traffic meaningless systems, with a War between Anarchy and Non-Anarchy, the Non-Anarchy seems to always dominate. CZ highly unlikely, Combat Missions possibly, but KWS bounties are far more likely.

 

[FrogsFriend]

I'll be keeping my eye out for more, suitable, inconsequential, low influence, player-ignored wars for testing purposes. Luckily there's plenty about

Things to test:
Hand in one Bond only.
Win one CZ only.
Complete one war-themed mission only (one test of each of Low/Medium/High).
Hand in one Bounty only.

And see where we can go from there.

 

[Jane Turner]

Sorry to say my Froggy friend but the exact opposite mechanic is currently in effect.

Winning a CZ has no effect on winning a war, only handing in Combat Bonds. The good side to this is that winning a CZ has no effect on your standing with either faction.


As a side note, even if it did it wouldn't be the end of the world because as long as you take a few missions with the faction you're opposing and complete them during the week of war (for +++Rep rewards if possible) you can actually boost your rep with an opposing faction (while they gain no extra INF because that's tied to handing in Combat Bonds exclusively) while at the same time gleefully murdering their pilots en mass to win your factions war.

They say War is Hell, perhaps the BGS is Purgatory.

We have also seen wars where bonds have no effect - bounties only mork

 

[Dommarraa]

Single Bounty (not Bond) tested today, it worked. Not guaranteed trafficless, but can we ever ?

 

[Schlack]

Can confirm our experience. Bounties work where czs haven't. Its a right pain if your faction doesn't rule.

 

[Chaz C]

Just as an additional (semi) related question to my original one - I noticed on the missions board in War systems that the warring factions offer ‘scan missions to aid the war effort’. Anyone got evidence that these do actually count toward the war effort for the current day/tick?

 

[FrogsFriend]

Pre-3.3 it was understood that missions had no effect during conflicts, since then there have been some reports of people 'winning the day' with missions only, but the jury is still out. More testing required

 

[Chaz C]

More testing required

I'll have that chiselled into my headstone.

 

[FrogsFriend]

An update on testing missions in conflicts. Initial results are looking positive.

War No1:
1x Strategic Data Transfer (No effect)

War No2:
4x Strategic Data Transfer, 1x Strategic Data Hack Operation, 2x Wartime Surface Recovery (Won +1 day)

War No3:
2x Wartime Surface Target Scan Operation (Won +1 day)

Testing continues.... I'd like to know how they compare to winning a battle or handing in Bonds for the opposition, and more examples in case there was any third party interference in the results.

Also, winning one Low CZ without handing in Bonds won +1 day, handing in those Bonds the next day without visiting a CZ won +1 day.

 

[Chaz C]

An update on testing missions in conflicts. Initial results are looking positive.

War No1:
1x Strategic Data Transfer (No effect)

War No2:
4x Strategic Data Transfer, 1x Strategic Data Hack Operation, 2x Wartime Surface Recovery (Won +1 day)

War No3:
2x Wartime Surface Target Scan Operation (Won +1 day)

Testing continues.... I'd like to know how they compare to winning a battle or handing in Bonds for the opposition, and more examples in case there was any third party interference in the results.

Also, winning one Low CZ without handing in Bonds won +1 day, handing in those Bonds the next day without visiting a CZ won +1 day.

Just to confirm - you're selecting INF as the major reward on the missions, right? It's rather disconcerting that after you win a battle in a CZ the rewards/penalties for each side refer to Reputation when INF seems to reign supreme when working the BGS.

 

[Schlack]

Just to confirm - you're selecting INF as the major reward on the missions, right? It's rather disconcerting that after you win a battle in a CZ the rewards/penalties for each side refer to Reputation when INF seems to reign supreme when working the BGS.

I havent tested directly (its a real pain for conflict in the absence of numbers) but it has been reported on this forum that all missions give the same effect value during conflict irrespective of rewards. I usually take the inf myself to be safe and because credits aren't an issue for me!

 

[FrogsFriend]

Just to confirm - you're selecting INF as the major reward on the missions, right? It's rather disconcerting that after you win a battle in a CZ the rewards/penalties for each side refer to Reputation when INF seems to reign supreme when working the BGS.

I was picking either max Inf, where available, or most money. And when you win a CZ the first message that appears is for winner's Inf gain, then your Rep gain with the winner and finally your Rep loss with the loser. It's easy to miss the first one as it follows the battle-over message while you're probably still shooting ships.

 

[Mangal Oemie]

Does rep actually go down yet? I know the message says it does, but I never observed it actually having any effect

It does, actually! Yesterday I wasn't able to do missions for a rival faction because I'd been hammering them in CZs during a recent war, and had become unfriendly!

Nothing some explo couldn't fix, though But yeah, this seems to work.

 

[Jmanis]

It does, actually! Yesterday I wasn't able to do missions for a rival faction because I'd been hammering them in CZs during a recent war, and had become unfriendly!

Nothing some explo couldn't fix, though But yeah, this seems to work.

I'm not convinced this is the case... or if it is, it's buggy as all hell still. Some screenshots from just now, in chronological order:

I've not done any other activity in between which could've restored my reputation. I've tried logging out/in to see if there's some weird caching thing going on (like what happens with CGs), but there's no change here. I did this the other day with three CZs in a row and it was the same story then. The only rep loss I got was when I handed in a massacre mission targeting that faction (or likely; any mission targeting that faction).

So, yeah, if you really are seeing rep loss from resolving CZs, then it's buggy and inconsistent still... that or there's some other thing going on behind the scenes.

 

[DNA-Decay]

More testing required

I'll have that chiselled into my headstone.

Get Schlack to show you his tattoo.