DW2 - A missed opportunity

[Ziggy Stardust]

Everyone's having far too much of a good time to be nervous.

I feel it's the funniest aspect. Following the DWE2 grapevine it's bobbling along nicely. Everyone is in good cheer, the event already is a resounding success. Most of those commenting on DG are players who aren't in DWE2. Those who are a part of it are far too busy enjoying themselves to have time to engage in the forum drama.

Godspeed CMDRs!

 

[Rock-Hermit]

I feel it's the funniest aspect. Following the DWE2 grapevine it's bobbling along nicely. Everyone is in good cheer, the event already is a resounding success. Most of those commenting on DG are players who aren't in DWE2. Those who are a part of it are far too busy enjoying themselves to have time to engage in the forum drama.

Godspeed CMDRs!

This is it in a nutshell. People in their PGs are enjoying dw. People in open are enjoying dw and the dangers they're facing every day. People playing as pirates and hunting open play explorers are enjoying dw. The whole community has a part to play and is united by dw yet a minority think its not working as intended. Weird!

 

[space voyager]

I'm not spoon-feeding this to you all. I'm not on your journey. I showed up to kill a few of you at the first Omega-whatever it was stop 5k from the bubble and like most of my squadron, decided to go back home. If you think its a worthless idea then fine by me. But I'm not going to work out the details for you. Contact the white knight leaders and ask them if they think its viable for them. Easy to find them. They're all on discord. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/forumdisplay.php/65-Groups-amp-Squadrons has their agenda usually. Its not a perfect idea. But not without merit either. Again, its being done in Eravate. Has been for a while. Instancing and all.
Or poo poo my idea and continue to die = eat rebuys. Reminds me of anti-war passivists in a country invaded. They didn't ask for it or want it, but refuse to accept they need to defend themselves, so they die.

There, your hands are washed. It is ok now.

 

[RolloTreadway]

Reminds me of anti-war passivists in a country invaded. They didn't ask for it or want it, but refuse to accept they need to defend themselves, so they die.

Wow. That's... that's quite some hyperbole you've got going on there.

I'm slow on the uptake, so forgive me, but I think I understand now. I see a lot of hyperbole, not to mention wild ego, on these forums from certain parts of the PvP community who believe that they're driving the game, their names rebound fearfully throughout the game, they're the key to and heart of the game, and so on and so on.

And I suppose it must be really quite dispiriting to have been so spectacularly bigging up the importance of blowing up a few defenceless sprites in a video game, the sheer might and power of annoying random people on the internet, only to find that this expedition - the biggest event so far in the ED universe, and one with overwhelming support from FD - is just a bunch of people having fun, collaborating, messing about, enjoying their game. Some like the frisson of danger that comes with playing in open, some don't. Everyone's having a good time.

And it must be heartbreaking to find that after all this time, it's not about you at all. It's a few thousand people playing a video game together and enjoying one another's companionship and celebrating each other's achievements and, well, being nice.

 

[WR3ND]

There, your hands are washed. It is ok now.

This game will pay for my medical treatment when I get PTSD from playing it, but I haven't lost a ship in over 3 years, so... [uhh]

 

[WR3ND]

However, based on the current exploration gameplay mechanics, this is probably a more likely scenario...

Spoiler

[video=youtube_share;HPSK4zZtzLI]https://youtu.be/HPSK4zZtzLI[/video]

Fly smartly, Commanders. o7

 

[CMDR MadRaptor]

To some degree this may have been done, or tried at least, but in open you DW2 leaders should have "hired" some squads to run protection. This would simulate real life. Think destroyers escorting merchant ships in WW2 etc.
PvP "griefers" as you call us would actually enjoy the better challenge facing an escort during attacks.
I had a submarine game years ago Silent hunter or something like that. If all I did was torpedo merchants it would have been boring as hell. The destroyers made the game interesting.

If you guys do a DW3 get some escorts. You'll be safer, not safe, but safer. And we'll enjoy the added aspect of combat ships amongst the sheep.

In summary, rather than whine about the issue, find a solution that fits and even adds new game aspects to your play.

You were doing so good until you had to throw in the whining part.

 

[ArchAngelofDeath]

You were doing so good until you had to throw in the whining part.

Yes you're right I suppose. Kind of my version of "you murder hobo ganking griefers all suck blah blah blah" response I read in other threads.
But I'm one of the few murder hobo ganking griefers who offered up an idea to these explorers.
But focus on my delivery if you must.

 

[CMDR MadRaptor]

Yes you're right I suppose. Kind of my version of "you murder hobo ganking griefers all suck blah blah blah" response I read in other threads.
But I'm one of the few murder hobo ganking griefers who offered up an idea to these explorers.
But focus on my delivery if you must.

Going to echo the comments of some by saying that we explorers don't care. We are all having a blast and those in Open knew the consequences. For that small percentage that has made it into the private group, we can deal with them and luckily if it's proven that someones death was at the hands of one of these people they won't lose any progress as we have a way to get them back to where they were. This is an event about exploration and discovery not PVP and not really even PVE. We are explorers, scientists and just regular CMDRS who wanted to go and discover the secrets of the galaxy. It's funny then how left out the PVP crowd must have felt that they needed to create their own Distant Ganks and then try to force RP terms to make them stop. Trust me, we aren't worried one bit and are having and going to continue to have a wonder expedition.

On that not, let's be nice to each other in her and keep this to topic on track and like Qohen said, not another OPEN, PVP, PG blah blah blah thread.

 

[jasonbarron]

Going to echo the comments of some by saying that we explorers don't care. We are all having a blast and those in Open knew the consequences. For that small percentage that has made it into the private group, we can deal with them and luckily if it's proven that someones death was at the hands of one of these people they won't lose any progress as we have a way to get them back to where they were. This is an event about exploration and discovery not PVP and not really even PVE. We are explorers, scientists and just regular CMDRS who wanted to go and discover the secrets of the galaxy. It's funny then how left out the PVP crowd must have felt that they needed to create their own Distant Ganks and then try to force RP terms to make them stop. Trust me, we aren't worried one bit and are having and going to continue to have a wonder expedition.

On that not, let's be nice to each other in her and keep this to topic on track and like Qohen said, not another OPEN, PVP, PG blah blah blah thread.

You say that "they won't lose any progress as we have a way to get them back to where they were." Does that mean Fdev can be relied upon to put people back in place?

 

[space voyager]

This game will pay for my medical treatment when I get PTSD from playing it, but I haven't lost a ship in over 3 years, so... [uhh]

I'm on my detox Elite-free diet right now, hoping to avoid the disorder. Read: the comp is being repaired...

 

[Ian Doncaster]

"Period." Wow Qohen, that's a pretty rigid opinion about a topic that I haven't noticed any truly dedicated explorer knowing a hill of beans about. A dedicated group of armed and armored defenders patrolling waypoints in Open could do wonders to deter seal clubbing. It might not be perfect, but it would be much much MUCH better than nothing at all, which is what you guys settled for. If you want to rely on PG to be your "security" that's great and I'm sure it'll work wonders for the players actually in it, but how about you save the definitive comments for subjects that you actually know something about? Security beyond being in group not being one of them.

If you'd said that to most of them, sure. But Qohen had a very good go a few years ago as part of organising an Open-quality defence of an expedition. And the conclusions we came to after a couple of weeks of practicing and planning (in Open) were:
- on the scale of an expedition, the game did not support the basic IFF needed. Squadrons has got it marginally closer now, but it's still not there. Another few years, maybe, and it might be worth trying again. This bit is fundamental.
- it only works if *everyone* knows their part in the procedure, including all the explorers. If the explorers are willing to do that much advance prep they could just get themselves some decent shields and not need external protection.
- it's incredibly slow: filling a typical instance would take hours and it wouldn't scale at all to a DWE-sized expedition
- in the event of any hostility at all the comms channels have to go over to security management, so the explorers don't get to do anything interesting including socialise
- you're seriously restricted on where meetup sites can actually be, excluding all the interesting places
It's not that it can't be done, it's that it can't be done while also having typical expedition-style fun.

Or, sure, there could be some extra patrol ships in supercruise to maybe halve the chance-per-time of explorers in Open being destroyed. We both know that wouldn't actually be worth it - the explorers who died wouldn't give the patrols any credit for trying, the attackers might enjoy it more but the expedition isn't designed around their enjoyment, and the recommendations to explorers of "don't go Open unless you can protect yourself" wouldn't materially be changed.

 

[Feros-da-Grundig]

- it only works if *everyone* knows their part in the procedure, including all the explorers. If the explorers are willing to do that much advance prep they could just get themselves some decent shields and not need external protection.

Over here in console scrub galaxy, it looks like an impromptu defense force might be showing up to try to stop the ganking. The numbers involved are much smaller and roughly equal, which might alleviate some of the instancing factors (or not, PS4 instancing is terribly buggy). The defense guys are arguably better at PvP than the gankers.

While it might be interesting, I think this quoted bit is the dominant factor - basically all the ganking forces have to do is not die, and the grab the stragglers who don't know what they are doing.

If the peace side of the fleet could be trained to the extent there were no stragglers, they likely wouldn't need the warships anyway, as you noted.

I also think the defense guys will just give up sooner. It's a jump grind slog on all sides and they lack a strong leader like Zarek Null to motivate them.

Probably nothing will happen. Console galaxy is very empty.

 

[Maolagin]

To some degree this may have been done, or tried at least, but in open you DW2 leaders should have "hired" some squads to run protection. This would simulate real life. Think destroyers escorting merchant ships in WW2 etc.

Most of what needs to be said about this has been said already, but by golly, maybe you're right. So you know what, let's give this a go! You're hired!

Here's my offer: for every ganker you destroy at a waypoint more than twenty jumps from the nearest respawn, I will arrange to source one void opal for you. Payable back in the bubble of course; my "associates" will handle the logistics. Up to you how you want to document the destruction, just make it convincing. Any other PvPers want to do the same and flip to fleet defense mercenary, send them our way, maybe we can work something out.

 

[jasonbarron]

Most of what needs to be said about this has been said already, but by golly, maybe you're right. So you know what, let's give this a go! You're hired!

Here's my offer: for every ganker you destroy at a waypoint more than twenty jumps from the nearest respawn, I will arrange to source one void opal for you. Payable back in the bubble of course; my "associates" will handle the logistics. Up to you how you want to document the destruction, just make it convincing. Any other PvPers want to do the same and flip to fleet defense mercenary, send them our way, maybe we can work something out.

That ship has sailed, my friend. But do please keep us in mind for DWE3.

 

[space voyager]

That ship has sailed, my friend. But do please keep us in mind for DWE3.

Why has it sailed? You think all gankers left already? I don't think so. One VO may just not be enough for the gankers to start fighting each other...

 

[Feros-da-Grundig]

Why has it sailed? You think all gankers left already? I don't think so. One VO may just not be enough for the gankers to start fighting each other...

Well considering 1 VO is approximately a minute (or less) of game time via new mining mechanics...

Consider the game time required to kill a decent ganker. Hundreds of jumps to keep up with DG2. Likely to have many brief, non conclusive engagements since ganker can easily flee. A conclusive engagement would take time, and include a considerable risk of losing - which means no void opal rewards, and all those hours lost, plus rebuy cost.

It's unlikely any amount of void opals will suffice.

Probably only real world money, fun or role play reasons would motivate decent PvP'ers to make hundreds of jumps and put themselves at risk. I don't know of anyone offering up the former, and as far as fun and role play reasons... it's pretty clear which side has the advantage there among decent PvP'ers in open in the deep black.

Side note, it wasn't just a rumor - there actually was at least one DW2 escort conda CMDR in console scrub galaxy. Was.

 

[Maolagin]

Probably only real world money, fun or role play reasons would motivate decent PvP'ers to make hundreds of jumps and put themselves at risk. I don't know of anyone offering up the former, and as far as fun and role play reasons... it's pretty clear which side has the advantage there among decent PvP'ers in open in the deep black.

Ah, but the offer stands. We've heard a lot so far about how the DG crew is made up of dedicated gamers who just enjoy roleplaying "bad guy" characters. I'm very curious to see if that extends to accepting a mercenary contract to shoot their allies in the back quadrillions of klicks from home. Frankly I'll be disappointed if not even one considers that an interesting bit of RP.

Of course, if the problem is just that the compensation isn't enough, counterproposals will be gladly entertained. We're talking about a huge fleet of veteran explorers who've become fabulously wealthy probing the most distant reaches of the galaxy. It seems obvious that they would choose bribery over guns, if push came to shove. Of course the bankers at Zaonce curiously forbid direct credit transfers between members of the Pilots' Federation. But gems? Alien relics? Alien ... samples, even? No matter how exotic your tastes, I believe my associates here could get you what you need.

 

[Feros-da-Grundig]

Ah, but the offer stands. We've heard a lot so far about how the DG crew is made up of dedicated gamers who just enjoy roleplaying "bad guy" characters. I'm very curious to see if that extends to accepting a mercenary contract to shoot their allies in the back quadrillions of klicks from home. Frankly I'll be disappointed if not even one considers that an interesting bit of RP.

But we can get many more void opals just mining in a fraction of the time. It's the same sort of "roleplay" offered by powerplay, just numbers on the screen.

I'm not saying your idea has no merit in concept, just the reward you're mulling over probably isn't the right one.

Also I figure some gankers will be ganked by other gankers just for assorted reasons. Gankers gonna gank.

The vitriol spewed at us on various forums is probably the single most unifying factor for DG2, aside from Zarek. The offer would have to overcome that too.

 

[space voyager]

Well considering 1 VO is approximately a minute (or less) of game time via new mining mechanics...

Consider the game time required to kill a decent ganker. Hundreds of jumps to keep up with DG2. Likely to have many brief, non conclusive engagements since ganker can easily flee. A conclusive engagement would take time, and include a considerable risk of losing - which means no void opal rewards, and all those hours lost, plus rebuy cost.

It's unlikely any amount of void opals will suffice.

Probably only real world money, fun or role play reasons would motivate decent PvP'ers to make hundreds of jumps and put themselves at risk. I don't know of anyone offering up the former, and as far as fun and role play reasons... it's pretty clear which side has the advantage there among decent PvP'ers in open in the deep black.

Side note, it wasn't just a rumor - there actually was at least one DW2 escort conda CMDR in console scrub galaxy. Was.

I agree, and this may well be another nail in the "get yourselves an escort" coffin. Why confront the gankers at all? The risk is not worth it really.

As for real money... No way. I'd rather stop playing the game altogether. Also IMO FD would have to act really quickly and brutally should such cases emerge.