Introduction of a second "Open Play Only" server, plus some changes in the actual one.

[Bard Voronwe]

I've read many topics about the DW2 ganking and about what people are now asking to do to the attackers (permadeath, ban, I've really read any kind of strange and unfair "idea" about that), and there's only one thing that I think emerged clearly: there are simply two unconciliable views for this game, and the actual coexistence of Open/Private/Solo is causing harm to both of groups.

Basically we have a group which is longing for a mmorpg game, with player interactions, even violent, and a competition ground where you can build your very own or your group's fortunes, which do not like at all that private and solo playing could affect their efforts, especially because most of times private and solo are exploited to use bots. I know of course that instancing and the absence of cross-play would make it not perfect anyway, but at least it could be a start for people who like to engage other CMDRs, both in a competitive and a cooperative way.

The other group is interested in a more cooperative game, usually do not accept other players' aggressions (unless previously concorded) but would like to find other players to play with anyway, without the support of Private Groups, because they are not pratical and they do not feel protected enough even in a Private Group.

What I propose is to separate completely the two groups with different servers selectable by the launcher, with two separate CMDRs: I will call them (from now on) MMORPG Server and PvE server.




THE MMORPG SERVER

- Open Only
- Rebalanced to make credits not so easy to do (the goal is to have a lot more small and medium ships around, or make them a smarter choice than big and expensive ships)
- 60 seconds log-off
- 24/72 hours ban to clogging
- Blocking only works for comms, not for instancing
- players "kicked out" of the instance when docking, to free the docking pad for other players

THE PVE SERVER

- All the three modes as in the actual server, Open, Private, Solo
- Introduction of the PvE Open Play Mode, people can see each other and play together but can't damage others
- Exactly the same as the current server, for these players everything would basically remain the same (with the exception of the new mode)




And that's it. Every CMDR, Squadron, Minor Faction, Power etc would be unique and separate for every server, I'm sure that this way the "griefers" will have something else to do and will find purpose by having a reason to interact with other players. The PVE Server can be intended as a "training server" too, with possibly higher rates of improvements for the Players, to explore the game mechanics as they like, and if they are ever interested to join the MMORPG Server then they can do that with their separate new CMDR, starting from scratch or maybe being able to import the PvE CMDR in an early stage (let's say after 100 hours of playing maybe?), but doing so in an harsher environment.

Will this separate the Community? Maybe.

Is the Community in reality already separated? Yes it is, at least in my opinion, we just have to accept that and give people a way to "blaze their own trail".

Thanks

 

[AdmiralXanos]

I'm into this, however I like being able to swap out my pilot+ships to ether mode like we have now. Also what if the PVE mode had a way to challenge another player in a duel (which both accept) which removes both combatants "player invulnerably" until they leave what ever instance they started their duel in (ether by death or jump). Lastly keep pay between modes equal, I doubt many people would play a SLOW-er version of this game... At least I wouldn't.

 

[Bard Voronwe]

Well, I think that if money is too easy all the balance becomes basically useless. People should always consider the option of run away, or measure the possibility to have a bounty somewhere. That would be the meaning of that.

And: if people like things as they are they could simply stick to the PvE server. Basically I'm asking for a hardocre/open only version of the game, separated from the "classic" one, with some new functions to help people play together. Really, I cannot see another way to fix the horrible mess Elite Dangerous is right now about player interactions (being those direct or not).

 

[Crimson Kaim]

I would be statisfied with a first server already. Other than that, no. No god damn Open PvE nonsesense. We had this discussion like what, 1000 times already? The only thing we need is players, humans realizing that this is a god damn video game and that a crowd that insults players playing legitimately a game doesn't need a safe mode, nor deserves one.

Threads like this contribute to even more ganking, believe me when I say that you are entertaining for them and no, that certainly wasn't a compliment.

What we need is draconian punishment. PvPers are rich, gankers even more (most likely). You won't hurt a ganker with 5% rebuys or payable bounties. Make it 100% rebuy or no rebuy at all -> lose that damn ship upon destruction. Don't allow for bounty payoffs but no, FDev doesn't like draconian so we get softie CnP and hence, gankers gonna gank.

I take this suggestion and put it next to the other thousand Open PvE nonsense suggestion archive, it's in my entertaining spam and meme folder.

 

[Bard Voronwe]

I disagree.

First things first: I would play in a Open Only environment. Period. Actually: I ALWAYS play in Open. I've got no problem with ganking or being ganked, I think it is part of the game and I think it should stay.

But. There's a "but".

Many people do not think as well. And they stay in Pvt/Solo anyway so... they're not a big loss for open players, as open players wouldn't be a big loss for pvt/solo players that don't want to get ganked.

With two separate servers we would have only advantages:

Open Players shouldn't worry about pvt/solo exploits anymore.

Pvt/Solo Players would be able to play in their so longed protected environment.

Again: you totally misunderstood my intentions: I want an Open Play Server, and to have that I accept gladly the existence of a completely separated Open/Open PvE/Pvt/Solo Server.

It's not a loss for both groups, considering that we do not want to play with each other. Just accept that. Two Galaxies. Easy as that.

In an open only environment the actual c&p would work much better too, btw.

PS

It is funny, btw, how you focused only to the "Open PVE" thing, totally ignoring the Open Play Only Server. Would you really care, honestly? I would not. Just give me something I can actually fight other CMDRs in, for my Power, my Faction, my Squadron. Other people can play as they like, but I'm sick and tired of fighting against ghosts and bots grinding in pvt/solo.

 

[Auronio]

Not supported

 

[Azreh Helas]

The problem is not the modes. The problem is that some play competitively (power play) in modes where one cannot directly interfere ( imagine playing football where one team is on one field and the other team is on another).

I totally understand bounty hunting, exploring and trading in solo Pg. But not fighting any kind of wars that may influence another players faction.

 

[Bard Voronwe]

Well I obviously understand what you say, and that's the reason why I think that two distinct and separate servers with separate CMDRs (something like the beta server) is the best choice. This way any kind of player could experience every part of the game, and open players would be free to enjoy the game at its best.

To be even more clear: this is something for openplayers, being those powerplayers or BGS-players, or bounty hunters, traders, explorers, people that want a different and more challenging version of the game.

But we must aknowledge first that there's people with a different taste for the game, and it's smart to give both the groups a way to play how how they like it better, without influencing each other.

You should be able to chose the MMORPG or the PvE/Classic Server from the LAUNCHER, it's not something about modes I'm proposing here, it's to separate the two CMDR.

Personally I would never ever join the PvE one ever again. What would you? Would you have the guts to do everything in Open Play?

 

[Dean Demon]

The only server mode that i would ever want to see added is "Ironman" mode, everything else is pretty much covered.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

I don't expect that Frontier would want to support a completely separate infrastructure including
- Powerplay
- Thargoid incursion progress
- BGS states and influence
- Market data
- Community Goals (including outcomes like new stations)
- First Discovery/Mapped data
- Squadrons + leaderboards
- etc.

I would expect a lot of 3rd-party tool maintainers to decide it wasn't practical to run two separate copies of their sites and databases either - doubling the data storage requirements is going to add significant costs to many - so whichever half ended up smaller might have to manage without or develop their own versions.

 

[Bard Voronwe]

Well, nobody says that it would be easy, or practical for third party applications, of course.

But can you guys really find another solution that could

- grant the Openplayers the possibility to play in an Open Only environment, without all the exploits typical of the pvt/solo coexistence for both powerplay or bgs
- grant all the Players to enjoy every aspect of the game (I kinda understand when pvt/solo players say that they want to play their faction of power too without being forced to go open, I do not agree that but as customers they've got a point)

Honestly, being the game as it is, there's no other way to do to so.

And I proposed this because (even for a very limited time) Frontier Development offers two servers, the regular server and the beta server. Would it be that much of a tragedy for them to simply grant us a second server all the time and not for two-three months a year as it happens now?

If you really think about it it's something that could really be done by the Devs, it's just a matter of will and of course resources (and sorry to say that resources to invest in their very own customers, so I can't think about them as "wasted").

- PvE Server
- After X hours of gameplay a copy of your CMDR is migrated to the MMORPG Server (this is to help new guys to be introduced in the MMORPG Open Only Server)
- After X hours of gameplay you'll be able to progress your CMDRs in MMORPG and PvE server separetly.

This is something that's basically similar to many other MMORPGs out there, Frontier Development should really give people that want to play a MMORPG out of Elite Dangerous a possibility to do so, without making other players losing nothing, and this is the only way I can think about.

 

[Para Handy]

I don't see this gaining traction.

 

[Old Duck]

The only server mode that i would ever want to see added is "Ironman" mode, everything else is pretty much covered.

If your iron man mode fixes credit inflation / deflation (both exist simultaneously in this game), so that only really dedicated players are flying Anacondas and the rest of us have to fly a Cobra for six months to a year like the game used to be, then I'd happily clear my save for this!

 

[Bard Voronwe]

Yeah, I know. Apparently people are more interested in defending the status quo.

 

[Crimson Kaim]

Yeah, I know. Apparently people are more interested in defending the status quo.

They are and for a good reason: whenever a suggestion was made and FDev tried to implement it, they did it in a way that defeated the initial purpose of the suggestion.
"Balanced heat weaponary" was a lazy cap to 180% heat to avoid the 1000% heat stupidity but never solved the problem.
They reworked C&P but without draconian punishment so newer players can cope with the consequences, the older players, however, don't feel punisent as they have 30-50 or more ships and billions in assets.

As for the Open PvE nonesense. The point is that players *shouldn't* be able to play in a protective environment.
Safety costs, not only in Elite. You want security? Buy a damn fence for your house and an alarm. Don't wanna get blown up in Elite? Buy an A rated shield and mode it G5. It really isn't that hard. But still, people see the wall and drive right into it and then moaning about other people why they have built a wall in their way and that this would be bad attitude (my favourite word since DG2). And yet they do nothing about it and only want others doing something for them. And this is jist blantly stupid. Why would you want to reward this kind of player? Not everyone should be getting what they sant, only of they really deserve it and the circumstances prevent it we can talk again.
But as of now, there is no reason to change the status quo for a PvE environment because either it's not wanted or even discourage or those who want it don't deserve it.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Well, nobody says that it would be easy, or practical for third party applications, of course.

But can you guys really find another solution that could

Oh, I quite agree that a completely separated copy of the entire game infrastructure is the only way "Open Only BGS" could actually be done. Every other option would allow major exploits.

I just don't think there's any chance of Frontier doing it. The Beta servers are noticeably smaller and slower than the live ones - even under a tiny fraction of the player load - and don't have everything synchronised from live even then. Maybe they'd be big enough for the fraction of the player base actually interested in an Open-only copy, I don't know.

Over time you could get some *really* big and unmanageable divergences. Imagine that they'd had this from the beginning, and so there were two Fuel Rats CGs - one on each copy of the game - to refuel Jaques. Both meet at least Tier 1. Jaques is then UA bombed on one copy (as happened in the real history) ... but not on the other. There's now a UA-bombed Jaques on one copy of the game (which goes on to become Colonia) ... and an intact Jaques at Beagle Point as originally planned on the other copy - which probably still goes on to be the basis for *some* sort of settlement but likely a very different one. As well as the server infrastructure, Frontier potentially have to maintain two entirely separate storylines and player activities. e.g. player-submitted CGs probably only make sense on one copy of the game ... so does the other copy get no CG that week, or a different one with all the work needed to set that up?

This would get even worse if as you suggest the "Open only" copy of the game had radically different economic balancing, rather than just being a straight copy, since that would have to be done separately for each new feature as well.

 

[bladerunner900]

I personally, am looking forward to the day the servers shut down and it becomes an off-line experience. Hopefully then, the serious business of moding can start. Though I won't hold my breath cos life is too short. Meanwhile there are other things to do.

 

[Eliza]

oh again...groundhog-day. There will be NO change in mode-architecture.