Article: "Elite’s Distant Worlds 2 expedition proves the game is wildly unbalanced, and that’s OK"

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I’m not speaking about all people who ever engaged in PvP or pulled a ship out of supercruise and demanded Opals. I’ve been dabbling in PvP some, though I suck at it currently. PvPers are some of the most skilled pilots in the galaxy and I’ve met some cool people who are helping me out. When I was referring to the notorious scum of the galaxy, I was talking about the Distant Gankers (a few of whom I’ve had comms with in the past and seemed like human beings), not all PvPers and pirates. What I’m lost by is why somebody would want to make the salt flow, and I’ve read articles that say DG2 might be result of frustration of PvP and the good-vs-bad guys aspect being neglected.

ahh. i guess i misread what you meant, sorry :) ... head's a little fuzzy today.. Saw a post in another thread and though it said ''So much time, so little potato'' but it said ''So much time, so little patience.'' :p

Why they want the salt? wish i could say, but last time i got into that, the thread got a little bit unconformable :( and i don't want to casue a who-har.

added(And i was only trying to explain why, not bashing or insult anyone... understanding can help reduce upset)
 
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It’s not just you and it’s a great idea. It just doesn’t work in practice. Short of going into full-on fact-checker cross referencing mode for every single thing you read (in which case you are no longer consuming journalism you are performing it), chances are you will assign some base line level of credibility to a given source, read the material uncritically, and then apply greater or lesser levels of scrutiny to particular claims depending on whether they appear to confirm or refute your pre-existing understanding of the world.

Polygon has a track record, as does it’s parent site, Vox, which for many people justifiably puts them BELOW the “default” level of credibility they would assign to any random source. Some people have been so burned out on their nonsense that they’d rather dismiss anything from the source altogether than waste their time and energy on an article which has to be read with the same level of skepticism as you’d use for someone with a sandwich board ranting in the street about the end times. Sure you COULD hear them out, but chances are if the world were about to end there would be someone less insane talking about it anyway.

If Polygon tells you the sky is blue, you better go outside and check, because it means something AMAZING has just happened.

That's the way I feel about the entire British media... [sad]
 
Can anyone explain this, without being nasty and calling them a bunch of emotionally stunted brats (which they’d probably laugh at hearing anyway)? I’ve engaged in comms with some of the known scum of the galaxy, and they seem like normal people, and I’ve had normal conversations. I was a bit surprised when I found out “wow, I could totally be this guys friend...if I didn’t have to sleep with a sidearm at my side”. But then I see the active subculture of salt & salt-mining: there seems to be an us vs them mentality on both sides.

I love flying in Open, even when there’s a risk of running into a bad-guy: after all, human bad-guys are more interesting than getting chased around all day long by NPCs going after your “big haul”. Good guys vs bad guys could lead to some amazing, emergent gameplay, as well. Can anyone think of a way to improve the good guys vs bad guys aspect, and make Open a more interesting place for both the good guys AND the bad guys (and make the things more interesting and emergent)?

Not while the 'bad guys' objective is salt mining. They don't want to play with other people, they don't even want to play against other people, they want to elicit an explicit emotional response from other people. They want to victimise other players, they want to frustrate, annoy and if possible anger other players.
It's bullying, pure and simple.
It's something that's very hard to do in normal, adult interactions. As I've posted before, people who gang up on a chosen victim with the intention of causing them distress and anguish are treated harshly in real life situations. HR will discipline office workers, someone on site will apply a more physical solution, the referee in a sporting event will penalise unsporting behaviour.
Acting like a jerk in an online game has far fewer consequences. In space games and MMOs in particular, companies like FD have utterly failed to combat the actions of a tiny, disruptive minority.

This is the reality of Elite Dangerous. A small number of fun lovin' salt miners can ruin months of progress with absolutely no risk to themselves. They can deny an opportunity for players to take part in the largest single in game event in Elite's history. Face it, who's going to be able to catch up with the expedition after they're days or even weeks out? Who'd even try?
They can do it with complete impunity and they can even post up videos on their chosen social media platform of them acting in a disturbingly vindictive manner.

It's all fine by FD, just check out my sig for the definitive word from on high.

It stinks to high Heaven, but it is what it is.
 
someone on site will apply a more physical solution

This is perfectly viable in-game as well.

Face it, who's going to be able to catch up with the expedition after they're days or even weeks out? Who'd even try?

It's possible to knock out a jump every 40 seconds. Given the pace of DW2, even the 19ly jump ship my CMDR is in could return from waypoint four to his home base in the core and catch up with the expedition at waypoint five over the weekend.
 
Okay - just gonna take a wild stab here and suggest that neither you or Kaocraft were party to what was said in the interview and that neither of you have seen the original notes?
(you don't need to answer - I'll take as read - because if you had been you've have mentioned it already).
So maybe the interviewer said something like;
"Well that's kind of bullying isn't it - don't you think?"
Or maybe it was;
"So what was all that about then - blowing up all those defenceless ships?"
"Well from our point of view it wasn't bullying or anything - we're allowed to do that - PVP is allowed"
The simple fact is neither you nor Kaocraft know how that sentence about bullies came into being but you've both decided - based on your own bias or your interpretation of "meaning and context" that the interviewer called them bullies.
I have absolutely no idea what was said - but I'm not the one making assumptions about it.


I . . . don't get what this is supposed to prove. Yes, true, correct - we don't know what question the author asked to elicit the "from their perspective" statement that the author then PARAPHRASED AND REWROTE IN HIS OWN WORDS rather than quoting directly. If we're going strictly by direct quotes, here, not only did the author "not call them bullies," but the members of DG2 never actually made any statements of their own as to whether they are bullies or not. Which when all is said and done means that the only reason the topic of "bullies" is part of the conversation is because THE AUTHOR INTRODUCED IT.


You're 100% right: we don't know ANYTHING about what anyone said to anyone, all we're left with is the author putting words in the mouths of the DG2 community as a whole, followed by a quote from Harry Potter WHICH DOES NOT ADDRESS BULLYING, followed by a judgey statement by the author ("sad!") throwing shade on the whole affair. And we're just supposed to take it on good faith that the author didn't ask an idiotic question, get a correspondingly idiotic answer, and then not even quote the response but rather summarize his own interpretation of what he wants us to think it means. That's why people don't like Polygon. Are they being stupid? Or are they being stupid on purpose and therefore smart? I don't know, I just know that it's par for the course with these people.


And this is why earlier I mentioned the "when did you stop beating your wife?" rhetorical trick. I could interview you, ask you "when did you stop beating your wife?" And then write an article about you where I say "Mr. So-and-So stresses that, from his perspective, he is not a wife beater." OK great. But whyyyyyyyyyyyy are we having a conversation about wife beating with Mr. So-and-So in the first place? Why bring it up at all? It's the author's choice to do this, and there's only one reason to broach the topic: because he wants the readers to think of Mr. So-and-So as a wife beater, or at least in the context of wife beating.


Fox News does the same thing: "Sooooooommmme people are saying DG2 are bullies, but they insist that from their perspective they are not bullies. What do Yoooooouuuuuuuuu think?"


Let me summarize where we disagree: You seem to think that I am somehow psychically inferring the exact sentence that the author asked the DG2 community, and that I am asserting that he called them bullies in that private, behind-the-scenes conversation. That is not the basis of my claim. I am saying that it doesn't matter what he asked them, and it doesn't matter what they said. All that matters is what he wrote, and what he wrote is a series of sentences where the only person introducing the question of bullying at all, is the author.


For comparison, he never at any point wrote something along the lines of "Members of Distant Worlds 2 stress that, from their perspective, they aren't pathetic mewling babies with no grip on reality." If the author HAD written something like that, it would be rightly inferred that he was suggesting something less than flattering about the Distant Worlds 2 community. Are you seriously disagreeing with this?


Now, I don't CARE whether you think the author is right or not. I don't care whether you think DG2 are bullies or not. I don't care if you're offended or not. I don't really even care if you like the article or not. The only thing I take issue with is this incredibly dishonest rhetorical gamesmanship whereby you and others keep trying to claim that the author at Polygon has not made any kind of statement at all, when he clearly has.
 
I was thinking more along the lines of "someone who uses force, threat, or coercion to abuse, intimidate or aggressively dominate others". I wouldn't call my behavior habitual, rather opportunistic, and the target being 'vulnerable' is a given as I'm trying to get something (usually security), not commit suicide. Going against one's equals or betters, on their terms, is not wise.

Fundamentally, I just don't accept that government should have a monopoly on the use of force or coercion to get their way, nor do normally I pretend to (unless dealing with their agents, then it's "Yes, sir. Utmost respect for whatever brand of jackbooted law and order you serve, sir!").

Anyway, social control is ultimately enforced via various forms of bullying, and the same methods can give one's self breathing room if that control becomes stifling.

You must live in a rather corrupt country.
 
It's possible to knock out a jump every 40 seconds. Given the pace of DW2, even the 19ly jump ship my CMDR is in could return from waypoint four to his home base in the core and catch up with the expedition at waypoint five over the weekend.

We are roughly 12,000 ly out. Using your number it would take 14 HOURS to travel to and from way point 4 . BTW there is no way you could jump every 40 seconds since you need to fuel scoop. Honestly are you going to even sacrifice half that time. I guess if you were a basement dweller with no life and no friends, it wouldn't be a big deal.

If Fdev wanted to mitigate the havok caused by DG2. They could place mega ships at regular intervals so player don't lose so much time and data.
 
a basement dweller with no life and no friends

Classy.

BTW there is no way you could jump every 40 seconds since you need to fuel scoop.

I don't even like exploring and my jumps are under a minute each in my gankaconda. 40 seconds for someone better than me seems very plausible, probably the dedicated explorers with low emissions PP and 38294729374923 ly jump range can beat 40.

When I nail my jumps, sometimes the limiting factor is not the scooping but the fact the next target system is obscured.
 
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I don't even like exploring and my jumps are under a minute each in my gankaconda. 40 seconds for someone better than me seems very plausible, probably the dedicated explorers with low emissions PP and 38294729374923 ly jump range can beat

A minute I can buy but even with that rate it still be risky over the hundreds of jumps you make. One mistake and you crash in to the star and you lose any time gained by being that aggressive.
 
A minute I can buy but even with that rate it still be risky over the hundreds of jumps you make. One mistake and you crash in to the star and you lose any time gained by being that aggressive.

I'm at WP4 in a 42ly conda and I crashed maybe twice both due to sloppy/distracted and i'm fine because 2 amfu and hull repair limpets.

I often do the long hauls on a treadmill b/c they're so boring, if I really cared I'd never crash.

Keep in mind this is an activity I don't like. I assume explorers like this stuff and are better at it than I am or should be.
 
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Let me summarize where we disagree: You seem to think that I am somehow psychically inferring the exact sentence that the author asked the DG2 community, and that I am asserting that he called them bullies in that private, behind-the-scenes conversation. That is not the basis of my claim. I am saying that it doesn't matter what he asked them, and it doesn't matter what they said. All that matters is what he wrote, and what he wrote is a series of sentences where the only person introducing the question of bullying at all, is the author.

Its a difficult inference to avoid given the facts and context.

Try this :

"Members of DG2 have followed in combat ships and are hunting and destroying these mostly unarmed and in some cases unshielded explorers. They are keeping track of how many kills they make and posting it on social media. Those who are killed respawn a few million poorer at the nearest space station, which out there can be quite a distance. They then have to catch up with the constantly moving expedition."

Purely factual, however anyone reading is likely to conclude that DG2 are toxic gamers, not because of the wording but because of their behavior. DG2 are not being misrepresented by naughty journalists they are proudly and deliberately behaving in an openly toxic way whilst trying to goad their targets for salt and doing the victim act and shrieking for the smelling salts whenever called out on it.

The only fitting descriptive term is sad, which the author himself rightly used.
 
Its a difficult inference to avoid given the facts and context.

Try this :

"Members of DG2 have followed in combat ships and are hunting and destroying these mostly unarmed and in some cases unshielded explorers. They are keeping track of how many kills they make and posting it on social media. Those who are killed respawn a few million poorer at the nearest space station, which out there can be quite a distance. They then have to catch up with the constantly moving expedition."

Purely factual, however anyone reading is likely to conclude that DG2 are toxic gamers, not because of the wording but because of their behavior. DG2 are not being misrepresented by naughty journalists they are proudly and deliberately behaving in an openly toxic way whilst trying to goad their targets for salt and doing the victim act and shrieking for the smelling salts whenever called out on it.

The only fitting descriptive term is sad, which the author himself rightly used.
That's fine. You get to agree with the author if you want. I'm not necessarily interested in arguing whether DG2 are or aren't bullies. I just think it's crazy to deny that Polygon labeled them as such.
 
That's fine. You get to agree with the author if you want. I'm not necessarily interested in arguing whether DG2 are or aren't bullies. I just think it's crazy to deny that Polygon labeled them as such.

I don't think he did or that he needed to, actions speak far louder than words. Its self evidently an example of toxic gamers in action and you can't write it up any other way. DG2 effectively self identify as bullies if they owned it people might have more respect for them or time for their demands. Trying to evade the arguably accurate label just seems dishonest as well as toxic, which people don't respect.

The author should have written a guide to using the block function.
 
We are roughly 12,000 ly out.

I know, I'm there.

Using your number it would take 14 HOURS to travel to and from way point 4.

~14 hours over the course of a weekend is not that extreme.

BTW there is no way you could jump every 40 seconds since you need to fuel scoop.

I can actually do it every ~38 seconds, scooping included, if I revert my planet textures to 4k instead of 8k (hyperspace loading time is the limiting factor at my current settings). I'm using 40 though as a good average pace if speed is the goal.

If you can't fill your tank and be jumping to the next system by the time the FSD cooldown is done, you could use a better scoop.

A minute I can buy but even with that rate it still be risky over the hundreds of jumps you make. One mistake and you crash in to the star and you lose any time gained by being that aggressive.

At full clip, I hit a star maybe once per five thousand jumps.
 
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