Powerplay 5C (Fifth Column) strikes Felicia Winters. Frontier needs to act.

[CMDR_Brantford of FLC]

Last night before powerplay tick, those of us in Federal Liberal Command who do the majority of the power play work for Felicia Winters (and is the largest organized group doing it - see our rewards in PC and console play for best PP squadron) witnessed the first organized Fifth Column attack on Winters in the time many of us have played for Federal Liberal Command. We've always had "5c" - random players who've attempted to feed Winters bad preparations.. but these were no randos doing this.

Winters had an expansion that was put up to block Torval from using it as a weaponized against us. Our folks were told specifically not to haul to it. We got higher then normal random traffic to "expand it in the 6 1/2 days prior to the cycle, but nothing that our allies and module shoppers couldn't handle.

Last night with an hour and a half to go, 26 thousand merits got hauled between then and tick time to narrowly "win" that expansion. The traffic report at Lazdongand showed a big jump in visits by Cutters. We believe that probably a couple to several wings were involved in shipping this to this system (all done in PG or solo, as the pilots who we sent there to search never saw a soul). Just to put it in perspective, 28K of expansion merits got sent to Lazdongand in the first 6 1/2 days of the tick... the "5c" basically matched that output in the last hour and a half of the cycle.. so this was well planned and well organized.

May of us have strong beliefs/suspicions as to which players Power(s) in the game decided to pull this stunt.... but regardless of who, its pretty brutal that those players have decided to go to any lengths to "screw Winters".

I believe Frontier can probably find out who this shadowy group was: they can read players logs like anyone else. I'm going to call on Frontier to examine their records for last night for a) players who suddenly switched pledged from their power to join WInters, and b) hauled expansion merits to Lazdongand. I believe they've broken the spirit of the game of Powerplay if not the rules, and should be punished.

Do I think Frontier will do that? No.. but Powerplay has now stagnated to the point where players are exploiting game mechanics to hurt other Powers they don't like in order for them to "win". .. and Frontier needs to do something soon to address it, before it loses a lot of players tired of having to play against unseen opponents who basically cheat.


Note: this is my personal opinion only.

 

[SteveWithaD]

It would be nice if something was done to mitigate 5c, but I fear that it can only be done with a sweeping overhaul of PP and if we have learned anything over the last number of years it is that PP is the redheaded step child of Elite and Frontier does not like redheads it would seem. Prove me wrong Frontier and fix what could be a dynamic and content generating feature rather than letting it wither and die on life support. There have been countless threads and conversations on this very forum on how to fix it, take your pick, as anything is better than status quo.

 

[Bard Voronwe]

We need an hotfix urgently, we can't wait for any Powerplay overhaul anymore and stay like we are in this sorry state.

An easy way to at least make 5C less problematic would be to change how votes work: just let people vote "yes or no" to any preparation singularly, and wieght the votes like this: 5 votes for rating 5, 2 votes for rating 4, 1 vote for rating 3.

Then we can even wait patiently for any overhaul you have in mind, damn I would probably pay for it as a singular DLC probably, but we can't keep on like that, all of us.

But please, please at least let's stop this injustice. Just for once, Frontier Development, show that you don't care only for people doing screenshots together all around the galaxy.

At least the votes, pretty please.

 

[epicbubble]

fdev would have to care first.

I personally haven't done any "serious" powerplay aside from module shopping. But stories like this make me want to have nothing to do with this. There is such an easy fix, just make pp open only. It was the intended pvp mode anyhow, why they haven't even after asking us, the community multiple times is beyond human comprehension.

 

[PhoebiousZ]

The only thing required for power play is to make it open only. It is painful to be sniped like this but it is legitimate play. It's the hiding in PG/solo that is completely unacceptable.

 

[Gully Foyle]

The only thing required for power play is to make it open only. It is painful to be sniped like this but it is legitimate play. It's the hiding in PG/solo that is completely unacceptable.

I've said this for years. Increase all payouts there a little too. Shadowplay in the solo wrecks ma immersion

 

[Gully Foyle]

fdev would have to care first.

I personally haven't done any "serious" powerplay aside from module shopping. But stories like this make me want to have nothing to do with this. There is such an easy fix, just make pp open only. It was the intended pvp mode anyhow, why they haven't even after asking us, the community multiple times is beyond human comprehension.

Frontier perhaps don't want to step on toes, but I think the logic is plain enough.

 

[Bard Voronwe]

Considering the mess of last focused feedback I don't think they're never gonna make Open Play matter more than private or solo, I think we should focus to have some hot-fixes as soon as possible, to make at least it work and make 5C useless.

EDIT

And personally I proposed many ways to fix Powerplay as it is right now, without Open Only, at least to take some time and counter 5C, too bad the devs don't care.

 

[Marcus Seldon]

Sadly I kinda lost hope with FDev trying Open Only Power Play, but I hope they solves problems like 5C, also the bot problem is still a thing.

Both of these problems would be solved making PP an open only activity, it's the most simple and clean solution. And would make ED more of a MMO game and not this kind of broken hybrid gone wrong.

 

[Dirtbird]

That's really sad. I just had my entry into Powerplay three weeks ago and with the small amount I've done, I've found it quite a lot of fun. However knowing that whatever I (and my team) can do can just be cancelled by a dozen $5 accounts and some bots does lead one to just want to give up and watch from a distance.

 

[PFLUEGGE]

The only thing required for power play is to make it open only. It is painful to be sniped like this but it is legitimate play. It's the hiding in PG/solo that is completely unacceptable.

I dont really see this as a "legitimate target." If a group of players swapped pledges to haul only to hurt, it just makes powerplay a bigger mess than it already is.

 

[Arkadi]

So voting for consolidation does not help? [haha]

 

[zimms]

They should just remove the dumpster fire that is PP. I have 0 hope they'll ever try to seriously fix it.

 

[Feros-da-Grundig]

The only thing required for power play is to make it open only. It is painful to be sniped like this but it is legitimate play. It's the hiding in PG/solo that is completely unacceptable.

That's still hard countered by a few firewall settings and also combat logging/blocking/etc.

Anyone willing to 5C would be willing to type up "TurnOn5CWindowsFirewall.bat" and "TurnOff5CWindowsFirewall.bat" and distribute to their minions and then it's basically back to being the game of repetitive-tasks-in-solo that it is now.

All of these are among the reasons why I quit PP. Good luck folks but I have no idea how you carry on.

 

[Sooden]

The only thing required for power play is to make it open only. It is painful to be sniped like this but it is legitimate play. It's the hiding in PG/solo that is completely unacceptable.

As explained in a post that got moved to PP section, the fairness of competition, that Fdev fully understand but seem to not be interested in (it is a long read, and i know i waffle on, but i hope it makes some good points:https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/476270-Power-Play-(my-take))

I'm not sure what PP is meant to be, its not what i though it was /\ and it seem that a lot (i cant be sure on numbers, as they my just have a louder voice) are happy to manipulate things from the shadows (Solo/Pg) and avoid and competition. PP panders to this type of play, and i have pointed out, they already have the BGS they can manipulate in such a fashion. Where is the game play for the 'Elite'?

What is irritating is, i thought PP was an endgame thing, where the best of the best shaped the power, facing the full set of challenge Elite has to offer.. which includes other players, gankers, blockades... everything that is in game - we should have to face it (it's equal opportunity, but skill would decide the winer)

what we have now is people in solo/PG pushing lists, using bots or just shipping in shield less supertankers. Nothing to do with game skill, but time and 3rd part apps, and they are all safely behind a mode.. the only thing that keeps them in power (and utterly devalues the concept of PP).

I have linked to my topic as, i would like people to get in on it, if they find it speaks to them, and i know the conversation has happen many times... but i would like to see if we can get people that wish to have PP in solo and PG to explain why it fair, so i can determine is PP is another, feel good mechanic for groups of people that have no skill and are afraid of competition. (i don't even mean that in an insulting way, Elite it open to all sort of play, but should all of it be open to people that need a safespace?)

it may achieve nothing more than getting them to admit, via discussion. that they are happy to use and unfair system because it gives them power Then they can get off the smug train (only room for me on there )

They don't want to talk about it, because their argument is so weak, and they know PP is nothing more than the players with the most free time... they don't want that to be shown

 

[tiddymun]

5C destroyed Torval, and has come close to destroying some other powers. Pledging to another power with the explicit intent on hurting its progress is actually now the only "war" going on in power play - The whole PP realm-building dried out years ago as all the profitable systems were expanded to. The only way therefore to increase a powers realm now is to remove systems from other powers. As thats an extremely difficult thing to do, requiring several weeks of a million-merit undermining campaigns (which I have to say has been achieved a few times, notably by powers playing in OPEN), and powers simply don't have the numbers of commanders to do that (or the organisation), they resort to cheats and exploits and other underhand methods. i.e. prepping terrible systems for opposing powers and then winning them for that power to reduce overall CC (Mahon, Delaine, LYR, Torval have all suffered very badly from this), and then fortifying non-profitable systems when those powers are going to turmoil so only profitable ones are lost.

Its just not honest gameplay. These people know who they are, and they probably have a lot of fun doing it. As others have said - if this were all done in open, then at least the honest players would have some chance of trying to stop these people from their nefarious activities. As it is though, we have to treat them like the enemy, and try to work against them. They will always be there. What is sad for me is that it is becoming increasingly prevalent, and I believe even organised by the "leaders" of some powers - the more they do it, the more normal and acceptable it is in their mind, and the more they will carry on doing it.

We know which powers seem to be driving this. Just a shame they couldn't do it in open. Hiding in PG/solo only makes you look weak, and having to resort to these tactics only confirms that. Fly safe out there..

 

[StealthPasta]

The issue here is that the Powerplay mechanic is fundamentally broken. It allows a small number of players to dominate the strategies of a large faction - of whichever alignment - without the large player base of that faction being able to stop them in any way. That turns Powerplay into a “who can cheat the most” competition. I can’t see anyone who has the interests of a vibrant Powerplay element in ED at heart being in favour of that. While FDev allows this to stand they will continue to alienate their most loyal user base - we all know people who have left the game thinking “what’s the point?”

I can only think of 3 things that can address this:

1. Make Powerplay Open-Only so that the targeted faction can at least defend itself against the 5c players
2. Actively monitor and sanction players engaged in 5c activity – these are not difficult to spot or identify
3. Change the PP algorithm so that any 5c activity only has a minor, local effect and can’t completely wreck a faction’s entire strategy

Any of these 3 remedies require FDev to take action. By ignoring the issue they are complicit and effectively consigning Powerplay as a defunct element of the game. We are defined by the things we don’t do, as well as the things we do.

So FDev, please put us out of our misery. Are you going to do something about this? If not, then at least come clean so that we can all get on with the rest of our lives.

Any FDev reps out there who can provide some comment?

 

[Sooden]

1. Make Powerplay Open-Only so that the targeted faction can at least defend itself against the 5c players
...

and we see a call for open only, over and over (i'm for it) and i'm personally waiting for counter argument from the people that don't want this... but it doesn't happen.

They will no longer engage in the debate, apart from to say it already be talked about... but that doesn't mean it's settled. (i think they are afraid that there position will fall apart, so they have gone into solo debate )

I would really, really,really like to hear the reason for why it should be open to Pg and solo. If the reason are; 'so they can play the game without interaction, in paper ships and avoid confrontation', so be it. At lest they are being honest and we can move on to;

Well the solo and GP groups have PP, where is the galaxy shaping game-play for open (people willing to face all the risks of the game - the game on its hardest settings, that includes gankers)

 

[Rubbernuke]

Open Powerplay and the first proposal is the least worst thing (and least amount of work required) to tackle 5C. By simply having the ability to vote and be able to vote for rubbish systems FD hammered foot long nails into PPs death casket at birth. FD could and can design 5C out of PP if they made PP a game of expansion just as BGS factions are now. Since there is no value in expanding in one place over another BGS wise, it does not matter so 5C can't hurt you. In PP terms that would make how many systems you own the most important, and if that was in Open it would give those who want Open BGS something to chew on, and calm the nerves of the SlipperySlopers. By going the BGS route all missions become PP missions, and all activites benefit the powers expansion.

I would dance with joy wearing nothing but a space nappy if FD put meaningful work into PP, it would add so much to the game.

 

[Justinian Octavius]

FD could and can design 5C out of PP.

You'd have to dump the current economic mechanics though and I suspect, but could be wrong, that some other Powers mightn't be happy with that. Personally I'd bin the lot & move over to a single upkeep based trigger and per system turmoil with Open Only.

I would dance with joy wearing nothing but a space nappy if FD put meaningful work into PP,

Hopefully such an event will happen but in a windowless room by yourself! FDev genuinely tried last year but various factors impacted their ability to develop it. Fleet Carriers, a heavily trailed feature set, even had to be 're-prioritised.'

CMDR Justinian Octavius