Fact: Dumb AI promotes and encourages the behavior of gankers.

[Feros-da-Grundig]

As I said, for a lot of people the word Gank has pretty much become synonymous with mildly hostile or even just vaguely unfriendly player interaction. It's a sad state of affairs.

Not to mention I don't think I've ever seen the word used properly on this forum. If the target was dogpiled in true gank fashion that's usually when the faff about psychopathic animal abusers and rapists starts being thrown about with some very colorful adjectives.

I am curious your take on my post. While other posters may fixate on the anecdote, ignoring the 3/4th of my post which devoted towards a genuine attempt to ameliorate the current state of affairs regarding combat in open, I suspect you will give it an open mind, since this is your OP where you are trying to ameliorate the same problem.

I think we have different views of the same problem, and I am open to hear from folks who see it differently and don't just want to insult me.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...balance-aka-I-just-ganked-a-conda-from-an-SRV

I will grant that some may not find that particular anecdote a "proper" use of the word, rest assured before I decided to branch out on DG2 with this little SRV adventure, I did indeed just straight up destroy a number of unprepared ships, sending only a cursory warning I doubt they had the presence of mind to even notice.

 

[Feros-da-Grundig]

Funniest thing I've read here in awhile!!

SRV vs Anaconda. lulz.

I recall in the past you suggesting the best solution to ganking was either solo/pg or maybe block (don't remember the particulars, basically just don't deal with the gankers).

One of the main points in my post is to add in game instruction that would better teach new pilots about the wisdom of this option. The fellow you are replying to though does not seem to think much of this, given the derision with which he dismisses my post.

 

[M00ka]

Yeah no offense here M00ka, but lets not try to descend into childish name calling.

Clearly the person with the 'Conda thoght it was griefing, seeing as he done a log.

Actually according to the post, he did two or three logs, which would indicate he knew exactly what he was doing and well GRIEFING THE GANKER

 

[Feros-da-Grundig]

Actually according to the post, he did two or three logs, which would indicate he knew exactly what he was doing and well GRIEFING THE GANKER

Does a series of two successive panic logs indicate to you that the pilot knows exactly what he/she was doing? What an unusual interpretation that is.

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

Actually according to the post, he did two or three logs, which would indicate he knew exactly what he was doing and well GRIEFING THE GANKER

M00ka. I'm going to break this down very simply here.

You're starting to get rather irritating with the constant Poop stirring.

Can we keep divisive chat to a minimum please unless there is actually some helpful additions behind it. Please.

Thank you.

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

I am curious your take on my post. While other posters may fixate on the anecdote, ignoring the 3/4th of my post which devoted towards a genuine attempt to ameliorate the current state of affairs regarding combat in open, I suspect you will give it an open mind, since this is your OP where you are trying to ameliorate the same problem.

I think we have different views of the same problem, and I am open to hear from folks who see it differently and don't just want to insult me.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...balance-aka-I-just-ganked-a-conda-from-an-SRV

I will grant that some may not find that particular anecdote a "proper" use of the word, rest assured before I decided to branch out on DG2 with this little SRV adventure, I did indeed just straight up destroy a number of unprepared ships, sending only a cursory warning I doubt they had the presence of mind to even notice.

Not applicable. Being ganked means being caught with your pants down by an overwhelming force of multiple aggressors. Going around solo and challenging people before attacking is just gameplay.

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

Does a series of two successive panic logs indicate to you that the pilot knows exactly what he/she was doing? What an unusual interpretation that is.

Quite.

 

[Feros-da-Grundig]

Not applicable. Being ganked means being caught with your pants down by an overwhelming force of multiple aggressors. Going around solo and challenging people before attacking is just gameplay.

Between myself and an associate on DG2, I can attest to ~60 kills of pilots who did not fire back, were grounded, did not seem to know how to high wake, etc. (all cases, only one attacker)

Are those ganks or not?

Also, if what I am describing in the SRV story is not grief/gank, would you agree that 2 successive logs by the conda pilot is not "GRIEFING THE GANKER" as has been recently described?

 

[M00ka]

Does a series of two successive panic logs indicate to you that the pilot knows exactly what he/she was doing? What an unusual interpretation that is.

Did you destroy the ship, the SRV? Nah I think the Conda pilot knew exactly what he/she was doing, and they extracted salt in quantities

So tell me Gank Master, how many times have you seen someone log off, either legally or illegally, and come straight back into the exact same instance - genuinely curious to know as I have never seen it happen before. Heck it is hard enough getting into an instance you want to be in!

 

[sollisb]

I recall in the past you suggesting the best solution to ganking was either solo/pg or maybe block (don't remember the particulars, basically just don't deal with the gankers).

One of the main points in my post is to add in game instruction that would better teach new pilots about the wisdom of this option. The fellow you are replying to though does not seem to think much of this, given the derision with which he dismisses my post.

Truthfully, I didnt read the entire thread... I just saw the SRV vs Anaconda and thought lols.

Yep, you are correct. I advocate PG or Solo when Exploring or any time you don't want to have to succumb to someone else playstyle, or can't be bothered/bottomed building your ship to withstand an alpha strike.

I'm all for PvP, but not the kill players for lulz. One is a playstyle, the latter the something wrong in the head syndrome.

Half the problem, I see, muchly opinionated, is that PvP, in Elite is a joke. Flying back and forth until someone gets the other players shields down, then it's wake out. I mean, really, that is not PvP. It's just measuring a build and fly ability against another build and fly ability. There is no 'skill' tree to advance or tweak. And that's a huge failure of PvP and indeed Elite as a MMO [lol]. Ranks are as meaninful as the colour of your socks.

Ganking on the other hand is a mental state that does not conform to social norms.

 

[Feros-da-Grundig]

Did you destroy the ship, the SRV? Nah I think the Conda pilot knew exactly what he/she was doing, and they extracted salt in quantities

So tell me Gank Master, how many times have you seen someone log off, either legally or illegally, and come straight back into the exact same instance - genuinely curious to know as I have never seen it happen before. Heck it is hard enough getting into an instance you want to be in!

Having been the only person in this discussion to actually observe the driving and piloting of the pilot in question, I believe I am in the best position to evaluate whether they knew what they were doing. I'd share video, but it's not permitted here.

As far as instancing, there's a pretty obvious answer why you and I experience different instancing behavior, but I'll let you mull it over and figure it out for yourself. If you need clues, look at replies 8 and 11 in my thread.

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

Did you destroy the ship, the SRV? Nah I think the Conda pilot knew exactly what he/she was doing, and they extracted salt in quantities

So tell me Gank Master, how many times have you seen someone log off, either legally or illegally, and come straight back into the exact same instance - genuinely curious to know as I have never seen it happen before. Heck it is hard enough getting into an instance you want to be in!

Hugely often.

You'd be shocked to find a good 60% of the player base does this exact stupid thing.

innumerable times I've ended up killing people becasue they logged to menu then straight back into the same instance.

People seem not to pay atention to basic in game rules.

 

[Feros-da-Grundig]

Truthfully, I didnt read the entire thread... I just saw the SRV vs Anaconda and thought lols.

Yep, you are correct. I advocate PG or Solo when Exploring or any time you don't want to have to succumb to someone else playstyle, or can't be bothered/bottomed building your ship to withstand an alpha strike.

I believe it to be unfortunate when someone goes out of their way to carefully craft a set of suggestions to help new pilots, and is met with name calling and folks not even bothering to read the suggestions. I understand certain posters might come off as, "ugh why even read what this person has to say" but I do not think I post the sort of vitriol, name calling, etc that would lead to that conclusion.

Thank you for giving it a second think when I requested.

 

[M00ka]

Having been the only person in this discussion to actually observe the driving and piloting of the pilot in question, I believe I am in the best position to evaluate whether they knew what they were doing. I'd share video, but it's not permitted here.

As far as instancing, there's a pretty obvious answer why you and I experience different instancing behavior, but I'll let you mull it over and figure it out for yourself. If you need clues, look at replies 8 and 11 in my thread.

You are telling the 'story', well just one side of it.

As for replies 8 and 11, all they talk about is the lack of players on the PS4. Sorry can't help you there, I am a PC user

 

[Feros-da-Grundig]

As for replies 8 and 11, all they talk about is the lack of players on the PS4. Sorry can't help you there, I am a PC user

This is literally the answer to your question about why we experience different instancing behavior.

 

[sollisb]

I believe it to be unfortunate when someone goes out of their way to carefully craft a set of suggestions to help new pilots, and is met with name calling and folks not even bothering to read the suggestions. I understand certain posters might come off as, "ugh why even read what this person has to say" but I do not think I post the sort of vitriol, name calling, etc that would lead to that conclusion.

Thank you for giving it a second think when I requested.

Let me address this a different way...

We have a situation in Elite, whereby PvP in it's proper form, is sadly lacking scope and diversity. I am all for teaching new pilots etc etc

We also have a group of players who for some reason, mental or other deficiency, find it amusing to simply kill easy targets and lol around laffing at them.

Both of these are issues for Frontier to sort out. Gankers as far as I'm concerned should be shadow banned straight off. There is absolutely no acceptable excuse to kill players as they login for lols. I simply cannot bring my mind to accept that is anything but the actions of someone devoid a few brain cells.

Frontier also need to address the actual PvP and PowerPlay. Both are neither mutually inclusive nor mutually exclusive. I could enjoy PvP without ever getting involved in PP, and visa versa. But, then this is systematic of a failed attempt at an MMO, in a quasi-sandbox environment. Frontier rely far too much on randomness to generate content, which has the result of making the content sterile, silly and boring. Everywhere you look in Elite you find randomness used in place of actual good game design. An example is X4, to build ships, the station must have material. You the player must go source and supply those materials. Within the same game is factions, but down so much better. If you kill enough of any given faction you will be attacked on sight. In Elite, we simply buy what we want and factions mean little to your average player.

All of these inconsistencies mean PvP will never change for anything better than what it is. Ganking will continue or at least for the players not savvy enough to use the lists available to block them all.

So all that brings us full circle.. Why would anyone want to re-outfit their ship to cater to some crazies? When, you can block them, you can play in Solo or PG and they simply are not a problem. For those wishing to play in open, sure, learn all you can, but from what I've seen alpha strikes by PvP built ships are rarely escapable, and if you do... You're damn lucky.

 

[Feros-da-Grundig]

I simply cannot bring my mind to accept that is anything but the actions of someone devoid a few brain cells.[...]
from what I've seen alpha strikes by PvP built ships are rarely escapable, and if you do... You're damn lucky.

It's not luck. Morbad, for instance - that CMDR is a perfect example demonstrating luck has nothing to do with it, and I think could withstand 99/100 alpha strikes from some of the best murderers in the game. I doubt however he would even allow himself to get interdicted into such a situation, as he would have identified the danger within a few moments of entering the system.

It is rare I am accused of lacking brain cells. Thanks for a novelty, I suppose.

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

Between myself and an associate on DG2, I can attest to ~60 kills of pilots who did not fire back, were grounded, did not seem to know how to high wake, etc. (all cases, only one attacker)

Are those ganks or not?

Also, if what I am describing in the SRV story is not grief/gank, would you agree that 2 successive logs by the conda pilot is not "GRIEFING THE GANKER" as has been recently described?

Whether they survived or not doesn't matter. They had a chance to survive. In a gank, you don't have a chance.

In a gank, by the time you realize it's happening, you're already dead.

Perhaps some visual aids will help.

Spoiler

 

[Bunkerkind Anni]

am i the only one who thinks there is already an issue if 1 vs. 1 situations can already called a "gank" ? (=gang kill)

when one player can overpower another one so much, that the victim has no real chance to escape, the games balance is off.

i would like so see that the acronym PvP gets changed too. Its not Player vs. Player anymore, its Player vs. Prey

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

Dunno where all you lot go to get ganked.

I literally sat with my butt to a star in a CG system, in Open and was ignored by nearly everyone. Lol

The two CMDRs who did interdict me said "meh" and jumped out without firing a shot.

Ironically griefed by the lack of griefers.