PvP in Eve Online is so great, you can shoot your ennemy through asteroids, stations...even through your own friends.
My Main Concern with ED
- Thread starter TomT
- Start date
What it means is that you're looking at a Beta version of the game, where most (if not all) of the game mechanics for limiting extreme antisocial behavior haven't arrived yet. If you can still make this comparison after final release of Elite Dangerous (or even, I suspect, the Gamma version), you'll have a valid point. Right now, not so much.
The entire point is that the development plan is projected to push the game further in this direction, not away from it.
This is just the beginning, and any mechanics put in to limit this behavior will have a minimal effect unless core mechanics that make Elite: Dangerous what it is are changed or removed entirely.
Why do you read books, or watch television or movies?
It seems to me there is no opt in PvP flag to make up for lack of game content.
Just wait for SC there do you have your PVP
I couldn't agree more W0OCQCK. Not only do they support griefing and new player harassment, CCP seems to enforce it with things like Eve's pointless bounty system where a brand new player can get a bounty placed on them from anyone for no reason what so ever.
Elite's definition of griefer: Griefers are fueled by reaction. If you react to anything they have done it will only add to their fun even more... Which is standard Eve gameplay.
I think Elite-Dangerous will be a great game because Elite's system will actually have meaning other than "I like harassing people and blowing things up". Once all the game mechanics are in place it will be nicely balanced and the choices you make will have nice rewards or severe consequences.
http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wiki/Griefers
I think we're on the same page here. There will be allowed, and even encouraged, forms of pvp in both legal and illegal flavors. What won't be tolerated is straight forwards tear harvesting of new players. I agree that's a bad thing to allow and is why we will ultimately end up with some fairly safe areas with god like npc police.
I'm not sure on extreme bounties, that could have the opposite effect. Many pirates in Eve consider a high bounty a badge of honor. That same perspective is likely to make it over here. I already made a post today about wanting to be the first pirate with a million credit bounty on him. So I think a ruthlessly effective npc police force around certain stations and roaming in starter systems would probably be the better option.
Extreme bounties will only cause piracy to spiral out of control. Players will just rack up a high bounty, jump into a sidewinder, get their friend to blow them up and split the reward or return the favor.
Highly exploitable and promotes negative behavior. This is why bounty payouts in Eve max out at 20% of the ship's value, and noob ships are worth exactly 0
not working that good when the bounty is taken from the owners bank account...
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
The player with the bounty will have to pay it off, and pay any insurance costs.
Logically, players in the same Alliance should not be able to redeem bounties from other Alliance members.
Maybe players with bounties in a jurisdiction should not be able to claim bounties by destroying players if the bounty is from the same jurisdiction.
Personally I think the Eve/pking parania is a red herring.
Here we are playing the Beta with all the safety features yet to be put in place, where is the ganking player killing epidemic. It's just not here.
Everyone squashed into only 55 systems and it's safe as houses.
The preconditions for Eve-like ganking play don't exist. (And are totally exaggerated by zillions of people on this forum anyway).
In Eve, because of the continual progression of characters, noobs can never catch up with established players and can be bullied with impunity.
On the other hand I think the situation here will be more like Jumpgate, where in a few weeks you could get top level equipment. A skilled new player could hold his own against or defeat most aggressors. In fact he didn't need to, bounty hunting was both a profession and a pleasure which kept busy space lanes mostly safe.
Unsocial play, (murderers pretending to be pirates etc),while it happened was rare and was dealt with in-game.
As so many point out this is not Eve, it's a much more level playing field.
Yeah, that idea of high bounties being a disincentive worries me too, although it may depend on how many players elect the "clean" bounty hunter role, and whether they're good enough at PvP to be successful against a really skilled bounty target.
Right now there isn't much point, because you don't know where a high bounty target is, unless you happen to run across them somewhere. If they implement that "Most Wanted" list on Galnet, then any bounty hunter could just find out where the targets are when docked at a station. Could be an interesting cat-and-mouse chase, depending on how specific that location information is. Just knowing your bounty target is in "System X" is still a pretty big area to hunt, and there is nothing preventing a most-wanted PK'er from just staying constantly on the move. Although I guess they'll have to dock at a station sometime.
What a load of bull... So by your definition, if I sit outside the station, killing the guy trying to leave in his hauler over and over again, I am griefing? Right.... Has it occurred to you, that maybe I am killing him over and over because he is competing in my trade run. Yes, I am causing him loses. Yes, I am causing him frustration. Yes, I do this on purpose, so that he would leave. That is my in-game goal. If he quits the game, he is weak-minded and doesn't belong in the cutthroat deep space. If he is smart, he will get the message and take his trade elsewhere.
It's such an obvious exploit that I don't believe Braben & Co. would have mentioned high bounties, without having something in mind to close that loophole. Bounty Hunter will be a profession in the game, possibly tied to a faction or association. It may require a license (earned through missions?) for the high-bounty kills. Dunno... the mechanics aren't in yet.
Brilliant. If you played Eve you didn't do so very long or else you didn't pay attention.
Within a month I was bullying established players who had been playing Eve for years.
There is always a way in a true sandbox.
The lack of character progression is going to be exploited by PvP players to avoid punishment. Got a big bounty? Are you locked in a station by a group of people who got fed up with your crap? Delete save and start over, you've lost a whole 2 hours of work, less if you use PvE activities to fund your PvP habit, which is almost always the case.
It doesn't matter if the bounty is paid out of the player's account either, once his friend kills him and collects, he has wiped the slate clean and now other players have no motivation to hunt him beyond personal grudges. He can also travel without penalty to go about any PvE activities he wishes to secure further funding for losing PvP ships indiscriminately.
Moreover, what happens if the player's bounty is more than what he has in his account? Has anyone tested this? Do you go into the negative or stop at 0?
If you stop at 0, the answer is to obviously spend every dime you have, transfer the hard goods to a friend, have him kill you, collect the bounty and you have created money that didn't even exist before. If you go into the negative, it still doesn't matter. Even if trading stays exactly as it is now where you lose 50% of the value of all goods given to another player since it is "stolen" the penalty isn't enough to stop players from dodging bounties through cheap exploits like this. They'll just work out a deal with a friend who focuses on PvE to hold their emergency funds until needed or pick up a second copy of Elite on sale and do the same thing themselves.
There are a dozen workarounds for any of these simple mechanics that're planned to curb "extreme antisocial behavior." All of these limitations have been tried in exhaustion is past multiplayer games with open PvP elements, and none of them survived contact with the players. Even Eve is far from perfect, and the nuances of the PvP mechanics in that game reach well into the meta of human psychology, where Elite: Dangerous will never even think of reaching.
Which does nothing to stop any player with friends.
The vast majority of the problems with any solution that might be possible can be found in that everyone trying to find these solutions is working under the false assumption that people engaging in antisocial behavior do so 100% of the time or do so indiscriminately.
Nope. These players are just like anyone else. They have their social group and people who they engage in private activities with, and anything that is possible for a "social" player is possible for an "antisocial" player. They're just being selective about who they're "social" with.
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yes that is greifing and when all the checks are working you will have a massive bounty and be killed for your actions .You admit that you would do it so someone would quit the game that is greifing .
This is an EVE mindset. You can't protect your trade run, because it only exists in an instance bubble around your ship.
That same station you're trying to protect will pop into existence in other players' instances, as often as it needs to, including for other players in the All Online group. There is no persistent territory in this game, no persistent choke points. Your entire premise there doesn't hold up.
Your trade run? How are you not understanding how Elite works? That one player hauling a boot load of fish isn't going to have much impact on the trade prices, its the combined hauling of all the instances you can't get to that will.
That is not the case though, is it.
Besides, comparisons between the two are pointless here anyway I think.
You can rationalize it to yourself anyway you need to, but yes that is exactly what griefing is and when the game mechanics are in place and working properly you won't be able to do that because of the no fire zone.
Let me tell you from first hand experience, (been playing on and off since 2004).
Yes, there are those who would gank newbies just for fun.
They are far from "very advanced veterans that would spend tons of time playing". The "very advanced veterans" have much better things to do in the end-game, than gank newbies at a loss.
Those that are ganking newbies are not very advanced in terms of game progression, you could do that within a week even, if not less. It's just that it doesn't take much to kill a newbie ship.
Absolute newbies (those who just started) are safe from griefing. The starter systems are highest security, and pilots that shoot unauthorized targets gain negative security status, which prevents them from entering those systems.
Even more, the game developers made it a bannable offense to grief newbies in those starter systems.
Will they still die? Yes, and they will get a free replacement ship, while the killer will have his ship blown up by police (which is much more costlier) and won't be able to return there to continue griefing. Would a new players quit over this? Prolly, but then we didn't want that weakling anyways. For others, they would have learned the lesson, gotten smarter about the game and continued.
The only way older players would be able to legally [in-game] shoot at newbies (which is a bannable offense out-of-game anyways) in the starter systems is if the newbie committed a criminal act.
This is again a great lesson, as you would rather learn the criminality-system in a free starter ship, than in something expensive. The most common "trick" older people would use is to trick a newbie into stealing jettisoned cargo outside the station. Well, guess what, even ED punishes you for stolen cargo.
At least EvE made new UI improvements that prevent newbies from doing criminal acts, without first warning them that it's criminal. This was a rather new change, and quite needed, as before they game didn't inform you that your actions were criminal.
But just like in ED, it's common sense. Don't steal in front of authorities.