This is ridiculous and against Elite Dangerous law, to my knowledge.

Intruder_06 · Feb 21, 2019

Garand, I know, open is all I've ever played up until, today...

Point is, I have the experience. I know the basics and more, with a few of my own tricks up my sleeves and I've now become tired of open because these pvp'ers are relentless in SD.

SD is a central part of the experience of Elite Dangerous, it should be better than what it is and all it has done is put me off open play.
I'm a pretty determined guy, hence I messaged here and put up with OP for so long.

I'm trying to pass on the message to Frontier that, SD (+ becoming Elite) is a part of the game that is in drastic need of improvement, it has been my only huge disappointment in the game (other than that time I couldn't log in for about 4 days) and it also highlights pvp aspects that are, kinda bent when imo and a "noob" to the game might not be as forgiving as I am about this.

Garand1987 · Feb 21, 2019

Intruder_06 said:
Garand, I know, open is all I've ever played up until, today...

Point is, I have the experience. I know the basics and more, with a few of my own tricks up my sleeves and I've now become tired of open because these pvp'ers are relentless in SD.

SD is a central part of the experience of Elite Dangerous, it should be better than what it is and all it has done is put me off open play.
I'm a pretty determined guy, hence I messaged here and put up with OP for so long.

I'm trying to pass on the message to Frontier that, SD (+ becoming Elite) is a part of the game that is in drastic need of improvement, it has been my only huge disappointment in the game (other than that time I couldn't log in for about 4 days) and it also highlights pvp aspects that are, kinda bent when imo and a "noob" to the game might not be as forgiving as I am about this.

That is true, and I’m not really disagreeing with you really. On the one hand ED is a game where you’re supposed to be able to be whoever you want, which includes a mass murderer, which seems a strangely popular activity. For new players especially, and especially now where elite trade is so easy, I can see where coming into SD would be off putting. I just don’t know what you could do to fix that without braking the game in more ways than you’d fix it. RN the only thing I can think of is if you unfortunatly get ganked or pulled constantly by someone who wants no actual gameplay other than to ‘own the noobs’, for whatever reason, is you can block players which means they’ll never instance with you. In SD that would prolly mean a lot of blocking before it got any better but atm that’s all I can think of.

Garand1987 · Feb 21, 2019

Unless perhaps Open becomes PvP/E Open and they added a PvE open. Player groups are available but they’re limited in the amount of people can be there at a time.

Intruder_06 · Feb 21, 2019

Garand, They can program in a new ships stations etc, I don't see why they can't fortify a system to gank the gankers before they can gank ya.

Even if it's just a safe lane through the system to JamesonM etc. You step out of it, you can get ganked, they try to get you in it, they get ganked, simples...

Tarman · Feb 21, 2019

Intruder_06 said:
Garand, They can program in a new ships stations etc, I don't see why they can't fortify a system to gank the gankers before they can gank ya.

Even if it's just a safe lane through the system to JamesonM etc. You step out of it, you can get ganked, they try to get you in it, they get ganked, simples...

Modeswitching is even moar simples.

SAB380 · Feb 21, 2019

Garand1987 said:
That is true, and I’m not really disagreeing with you really. On the one hand ED is a game where you’re supposed to be able to be whoever you want, which includes a mass murderer, which seems a strangely popular activity. For new players especially, and especially now where elite trade is so easy, I can see where coming into SD would be off putting. I just don’t know what you could do to fix that without braking the game in more ways than you’d fix it. RN the only thing I can think of is if you unfortunatly get ganked or pulled constantly by someone who wants no actual gameplay other than to ‘own the noobs’, for whatever reason, is you can block players which means they’ll never instance with you. In SD that would prolly mean a lot of blocking before it got any better but atm that’s all I can think of.

I think there are lore ways that Founders World can be made safer. Its the Pilot's Federation HQ.

The Pilot's Federation are a slightly mysterious organisation that has unique power and designated responsibility, across all factions across the verse.
And they control the Galnet network which is basically the in game menus to connect to stations and play the game.
Bounties in Shinrata should apply across every system automatically and should be death warrants for a timed period - no ability to pay them off or clear them for a certain time period. Extra points from The Pilot's Federation for killing players that have broken their rules in the home system.

Once your bounty reaches a certain level in Sinrata - they disconnect your ship from the Galnet network.

Intruder_06 · Feb 21, 2019

Tarman, Think of it as a welcoming mat, where those new to the game who like open play, won't be at a severe disadvantage to those who have the gear needed to fight pvp, even tho they may possibly be a better fighter (if they ever decided to try and find out).

This lane (welcoming mat) could have flashy lights and everything, possibly pretty enough to distract some pvp'ers from ganking the "noobs" permanently, I have noticed some of them have pretty short attention spans.

Zoltah-Talion · Feb 21, 2019

Garand1987 said:
... the only thing I can think of is if you unfortunatly get ganked or pulled constantly by someone who wants no actual gameplay other than to ‘own the noobs’, for whatever reason, is you can block players which means they’ll never instance with you. In SD that would prolly mean a lot of blocking before it got any better but atm that’s all I can think of.

I don't think it takes 'a lot of blocking'. Shinrarta is my home system, I spend a lot of time coming and going there when I'm in the bubble. I'm also a PS4 player btw. (For a while the presence of these gankers there and their boorish domination had me moving to Sol. I mean the stations are prettier there anyway. But then I thought like what the hell.) In general, I find I have no problems now at SD, and I can only ever recall blocking a single player as I found his 'are you a victim?' game such a turn off. I have cheerfully jousted with a number of other players in both my beautiful Corvette (which I should be ashamed of flying of course, not being a PvP star lord) and my FDL, and have never yet fallen in a fair fight. I do however flee rather than die, lol.

Bortas · Feb 21, 2019

Tbh if you can't stand the casual attack in SD, you don't deserve to be there.

Flin · Feb 21, 2019

Intruder_06 said:
Garand, I know, open is all I've ever played up until, today...

Point is, I have the experience. I know the basics and more, with a few of my own tricks up my sleeves and I've now become tired of open because these pvp'ers are relentless in SD.

SD is a central part of the experience of Elite Dangerous, it should be better than what it is and all it has done is put me off open play.
I'm a pretty determined guy, hence I messaged here and put up with OP for so long.

I'm trying to pass on the message to Frontier that, SD (+ becoming Elite) is a part of the game that is in drastic need of improvement, it has been my only huge disappointment in the game (other than that time I couldn't log in for about 4 days) and it also highlights pvp aspects that are, kinda bent when imo and a "noob" to the game might not be as forgiving as I am about this.

Not an expert on lore, but SD is for the elites and given the Pilots Federation is not a nanny state and stay out of politics, they rely on existing system of law.

Normal Crime & Punishment mechanisms are in place.

Combat Elite rank and the "blood-thirsty notoriety" it conveys suggest pilots should take care of themselves rather than having hyper security protocols.

A welcome mat for newly minted Trading and Exploration Elite pilots via current system likely is an affront to some grizzled, veteran Combat Elite pilots (e.g. hold your ground or get off my lawn).

Beyond the bounty system PF help created across the bubble, I appreciate their staying out of things.

Disclosure: I am not a Combat Elite and approach SD and JM with caution. And I expect being challenged by other pilots. Perhaps they'll bloodied me and not send me to a rebuys if I show grit and they are gracious. Others are out pure pyschos, gankers, etc.

Intruder_06 · Feb 21, 2019

Bortas, Tbh if you target those not preped for pvp, you don't deserve to be there... See how you methods work, ya mug.

Flin · Feb 21, 2019

Oh, asking for a Empire fraction presence is fine (maybe a bit too much).

You can work the BGS to get them expanded here (unless FD manually fixed the factions in SD).

Intruder_06 · Feb 21, 2019

Flin, you missed my sarcasm...

Tarman · Feb 21, 2019

Intruder_06 said:
Tarman, Think of it as a welcoming mat, where those new to the game who like open play, won't be at a severe disadvantage to those who have the gear needed to fight pvp, even tho they may possibly be a better fighter (if they ever decided to try and find out).

This lane (welcoming mat) could have flashy lights and everything, possibly pretty enough to distract some pvp'ers from ganking the "noobs" permanently, I have noticed some of them have pretty short attention spans. &#55357;&#56853;

I think of it as, if you earned your way into SD on the legit, you oughtta know how highly populated and utilized systems function by now in Open. If you go there heedless of actual and predictable risk, I have zero sympathy when you encounter the watering hole predators like that's some new thing in gaming. Go there in Solo/PG or risk your hull like the entire rest of the galaxy does for every other hotspot; that's the entire point of modes, to tailor your experience for just such risk-avoidance techniques. Solo is proven 100% effective against all forms of ganking.

And talking smack about gankers all up in the safety of the forum when you're looking for a training-wheels bubblewrap tunnel in the "I have Elite status" system is pretty comedic. I don't do it at all in this game, but I really think I'm a PVPer at heart who's currently playing only PVE; they are my people because on the whole they have a far healthier attitude about the value of pretending to be a spaceman in the future than the "omg don't hurt me, I'm fragile" players. Threads like this just tempt me to the dark side more each day.

Feros-da-Grundig · Feb 21, 2019

Intruder_06 said:
Bortas, Tbh if you target those not preped for pvp, you don't deserve to be there... See how you methods work, ya mug. &#55357;&#56832;

Intruder_06 · Feb 21, 2019

Tarman, Did, Did I touch a nerve? Are my comments on those who gank offensive to you? I do with my heart and soul appologise, I would never in intend to offend you this way...

But seriously, how about different bases for different elite groups? If I had of know I needed Elite pvp combat to survive getting to SD, I'd of centred on it when I first started playing ED, but nooo, I figured I'd leave the best tell last. HOW STUPID OF ME!

(facepalm)

TheMegaTurnip · Feb 21, 2019

Intruder_06 said:
Tarman, Did, Did I touch a nerve? Are my comments on those who gank offensive to you? I do with my heart and soul appologise, I would never in intend to offend you this way...

But seriously, how about different bases for different elite groups? If I had of know I needed Elite pvp combat to survive getting to SD, I'd of centred on it when I first started playing ED, but nooo, I figured I'd leave the best tell last. HOW STUPID OF ME! &#55357;&#56849; (facepalm)

It's simple.

If you're new (You are, founders world means diddly dooch. Combat rank is now the only indicator of time spent), and flying a big unengineered ship, you will be a target for people.

If you wanna test a ship do it PG/Solo like everyone else. Even the PvPers utilise that particular tool for building ships/farming mats unmolested. (Yeah we kill each other pretty frequently)

If you're in something proven that you know you can escape in, or better yet fight with, then great, use open.

Most ganks in ED happen simply because of bad timing. Moreover, it's nothing personal, everyone gets the same treatment. They either get gud at evading us with the conventional methods, or they use PG/Solo. Then there is the other group who, instead of complaining on the forums, chose to better themselves and did a damn fine job of it at that.

Theres some very talented pilots in the "scrub galaxy". Learn from them, or be killed by them.

Feros-da-Grundig · Feb 21, 2019

Intruder_06 said:
Tarman, Did, Did I touch a nerve? Are my comments on those who gank offensive to you? I do with my heart and soul appologise, I would never in intend to offend you this way...

But seriously, how about different bases for different elite groups? If I had of know I needed Elite pvp combat to survive getting to SD, I'd of centred on it when I first started playing ED, but nooo, I figured I'd leave the best tell last. HOW STUPID OF ME! &#55357;&#56849; (facepalm)

You are the one whose nerves are rattled.

Elite combat rank has nothing to do with PvP - it merely measures how much PvE combat grind you have done. You need to learn these sorts of things if you want to PvP. Most of what you know/assume about the game from your PvE experience is incorrect.

If you want to improve you should:

- Start reviewing the footage of your encounters - especially deaths. Keep footage and builds available for others to give you advice
- Read this: https://docs.google.com/document/d/108hNUfUZJuAgCNQrjmpX14j7qv4k3TloETnwhzIMwLk
- Build something with a cheap rebuy like this to start in: https://s.orbis.zone/299j
- Assume everyone wants to kill you, all of the time
- Fight people in open

You should not:

- Fly a slow massive expensive unengineered target into open in the system consistently ranked on Inara highest for both traffic and murder attempts
- Ask FDev to help
- Debate people in forums

Intruder_06 · Feb 21, 2019

There we go, had a bunch on this one.

Ewww, lots to go read, let's see what the chumps have to say for themselves.

Hello Turnip!

Tarman · Feb 21, 2019

Intruder_06 said:
Tarman, Did, Did I touch a nerve? Are my comments on those who gank offensive to you? I do with my heart and soul appologise, I would never in intend to offend you this way...

But seriously, how about different bases for different elite groups? If I had of know I needed Elite pvp combat to survive getting to SD, I'd of centred on it when I first started playing ED, but nooo, I figured I'd leave the best tell last. HOW STUPID OF ME! &#55357;&#56849; (facepalm)

Faux politeness in forum sparring doesn't swing, pilot; it's more ridiculous than your safety zone. Nothing on this forum could get to my nerves even with surgery; like I said, this is about pretending to be a spaceman in the future. I find it kind of sad that you'd rather look to alter the game mechanics than avail yourself of the various and effective existing methods to avoid what you don't want to encounter, and it's funny to watch someone talk trash about people they're also trying to avoid at all costs, like when my dog barks at people while hiding behind my legs.

It's not only you; there's a cadre of the playerbase who are always looking to bubblewrap everything into bland safety. Less rebuy cost, more regulation, execute gankers IRL (seriously, I remember a thread a good while back where someone advocated killing gankers IRL, and far more violently than I think is allowed by law in most games). That is honestly just boring as eff. I could stand magnitudes more risk in this game; as it is, locations that are almost guaranteed to contain murderers are some of the few sources of real risk in Elite.

Dueling aside, 1-Elite locations might be a decent idea in of themselves for variety's sake, though not in the interests of effectively curbing murder. I doubt very much it would reduce the watering hole effect; it could magnify it though. Killers gotta pay for stuff somehow, and mining is the easiest road to fast and flowing credits going right now even without a VO hotspot on bookmark. That'd make a mining version of SD even more of what you're seeking to avoid, as mining rigs get eaten wholesale by combat-capable pilots rocking an Elite trade rank.

It'd still be best solved by going Solo/PG; really, it's what they're for, and much easier than rewriting systems to protect pilots who can't protect themselves.