Grind in Elite vs other games

[m0rl0ck]

Im taking a break from elite that looks like its going to last a while and playing other games

One of those is skyrim special edition, played its predecessors, but never played skyrim. Its a truly epic game, really loving it.

Elite, being the last game i played before it, doesnt fare well in comparision, specifically player progression.

Elite has only two lines of progression, ships (credits) and RNGineering. Skyrim otoh has multiple lines of progressions and skills.

In Elite, you engineer or die and grind your way to disgust with the game along the way, in Skyrim there are multiple paths of progression and ways to deal with opponents and there is no grind that is necessary. If you dont like a particular activity in Skyrim the game gives you multiple ways to deal with enemies, skills and progression.

Continuing the comparision, and keep in mind this may just be novelty speaking, Skyrim has a sense of fun and humor with itself that elite lacks. You get the sense that the people who made it actually like playing rpgs and arent just ticking spreadsheets and signing off on completed design specs.

Skyrim has a way of drawing you in after the initial impression and with elite, after the initial wow, you start to realize that the game is mostly arid grind.

FD et al, take a look at a game that looks like the designers had fun with it, and might actually play it.

 

[Slopey]

Apples and Oranges.

Once you've cleared the main quest line, Skyrim is just a grind also. You're obviously not over the initial "wow" yet. I've bought it about 5 times now (original/SE/VR/Switch/Steam), and you do get bored of it after a while. Amazing game, yes, but I have multiples of hours in ED compared with Skyrim (and I've played all the ES series from Daggerfall onwards).

ED isn't really about progression - it's more about what you can go do rather than progress into. It doesn't have skills for example, and therefore doesn't have abilities which are locked behind grind/playing. It's more of a true sandbox in that regard. Also, the biggest ship in ED is not always the best for the task, whereas Skyrim has a pretty linear approach to DPS and abilities. (Also, lets not get into single player, hand crafted play world/narrative vs proc gen universe)

Depends what you're into, but you could compare ED to Tetris and make the same conclusions.

 

[Sup3rfluiD]

In my view Elite isn't a game. It's more like the other toys in my shed.
When I want some backwheel buzz I jump on the dirt bike.
Some stealth I grab a deer rifle. Some fat kegs I'll grab a surfboard.
For some spaceflight I grab my phantom.
Progression, grind, plot, balance etc. are irrelevant side issues.

 

[CAPT. Ho Chi Minge]

The issue comparing it is that in other games the grind/game loop is disguised so that players dont notice they are effectively repeating the same loop over and over .. in elite this is just stuck in your face and no attempt has been made at hiding the loops or even tart it up a bit.

 

[voidwalker]

If you think Elite is a 'grind', you haven't played BDO.

 

[NCFCpaul]

Wait... Elite is a grind?! Never seen it myself....
Also I think I'm the only person in the world who didn't get on with Skyrim, I much preferred Oblivion

 

[Micha]

The issue comparing it is that in other games the grind/game loop is disguised so that players dont notice they are effectively repeating the same loop over and over .. in elite this is just stuck in your face and no attempt has been made at hiding the loops or even tart it up a bit.

I don't find Elite grindy. And I have hundreds of hours in the game.

I just do what I want to do - take that mission? Deliver some cargo? Take out that pirate? Go mining? Do some exploring? Whatever; it's only grind if you're trying to achieve something in particular in a given timeframe.

Want 1 billion credits so you can buy that Corvette? Well, better be "grinding" that road to riches (or mining void opals, or whatever the current credits meta is), then "grinding" those missions to unlock Fed ranks.

Or you can, you know, just play the game, at your own pace, in your own style, and eventually you will end up with enough credits and ranks which will unlock something new.

The thing about Elite is - what will those extra credits or that other ship do that your current ship can't? Sure, maybe you can haul MORE cargo. Or you can kill ships quicker. But what are you doing THOSE activities for? If you don't enjoy them in a smaller ship what makes you think you'll enjoy them in a bigger ship?


The main thing Elite lacks (for me) are mini-mission/story arcs interspersed through the game. Not world-shattering save-the-universe ones because that's not the narrative, just something more than "hey, deliver 20 tonnes of cargo to the next system over". They could be procgenned too far all I care (although some hand-written ones would be nice), but they should be a bit more immersive than the current set of missions. Hopefully chained missions were just the start of that.

 

[Captain Jack Sparrow]

Amazing how many players just don't get this game. The only grind is self imposed. Nobody forces you to do anything, the game has many activities, but instead of enjoying those activities, time and time again players like OP make themselves grind rank, credits, etc thinking there is some kind of end game. Of course, there isn't, so they burn out. Just a complete lack of understanding. Then comes the "i'm leaving parade." Please, go.

 

[Tikanderoga]

players like OP make themselves grind rank, credits, etc thinking there is some kind of end game. Of course, there isn't, so they burn out.

It's not the players that burn out, it's the game that fizzles.
You got your Conda, your Vette and the Cutter, you've been to SagA*, Beagle point and the top of the galaxy. You are triple Elite, you got 10bn sitting in your account, what next?
Everything is engineered, the NPCs don't stand a chance, Thargoids are optional and not a threat per se - I think I can speak for many when I say: I'd like a challenge, something that I can only do in an engineered Anaconda, that I cannot do in a Sidewinder or a Vulture.
And don't tell me to go exploring or mining - been there done that. The mission board isn't really a challenge or appealing. Sure it had its highlights back in the days, when we needed Articulated Motors and other parts to unlock the engineers or to get some credits and ranks and rep. But eventually you are just done with the "lowbie" stuff and want something different.

Yes, the grind in this game is real, especially for Combat. You don't "just hit accidentally" Elite in Combat by shooting the odd NPC interdicting you.

 

[Hellfire85]

the logical course of action would be to go into PvP, hone your flying skills, get used to flying in FA-off, chose a particular ship you prefer and get proficient in using it. not like just knowing how to fly it, but get to know it.

Once you have achieved a certain knowledge and skill in a particular ship, you can engage in various stuff, always trying to push your limits and the limits of your ship further.

This is what progression is for me in ED.

I always try to find a bigger challenge once I have reached a certain skill.

Set yourself some goals, like how long can you survive against a full wing of FDLs? then try to survive longer each time.

And btw, I am doing all that in a Vulture (sometimes the FAS, but mostly my Vulture)

 

[Micha]

Yes, the grind in this game is real, especially for Combat. You don't "just hit accidentally" Elite in Combat by shooting the odd NPC interdicting you.

While the lack of content for bespoke ships -is- a thing (as is the lack of credit sinks; end-game ships should require end-game credits to run and maintain, and I don't just mean Rebuys. Rebuys should be devastating and something to be avoided at all costs instead of just being treated like a respawn in a FPS), the grind is not. Kill enough ships, you end up Elite in Combat, it's not special. The only time Elite Combat would be a grind is if you want it in 2 weeks. Otherwise, it -will- just happen one day through normal gameplay; interdictions, missions, CG's, etc.

But I guess these days people want to buy a game and "finish" it in a couple of weeks so they can move on to the next game. Partially to blame are the console trophies for this; the more games you complete, the more points in your trophy cupboard. So people rush through the games to get the most trophies instead of actually enjoying the content the games offer.

 

[metatheurgist]

The grind in Skyrim is exactly the same as the grind in ED. Take away the story quests (which is specific handcrafted SP content that ED doesn't have) and you're left with the same thing. Grinding out dagger after dagger to rank your smith skill. Doing the tour of mines/fields/rocks etc to collect the materials to craft (boy is that identical to ED) for those skills. Kill lots of things while spamming an attack to grind your combat skills (almost exactly like ED except your real skill improves and not a spreadsheet in ED). About the only thing that's different is you can fast travel.

 

[m0rl0ck]

Amazing how many players just don't get this game. The only grind is self imposed. Nobody forces you to do anything, the game has many activities, but instead of enjoying those activities, time and time again players like OP make themselves grind rank, credits, etc thinking there is some kind of end game. Of course, there isn't, so they burn out. Just a complete lack of understanding. Then comes the "i'm leaving parade." Please, go.

The game is the grind, once seen, it cant be unseen.

 

[krylite]

OP, sorry to say, but your comparison between ED and Skyrim is not only apples v oranges, but very narrowly minded and possibly very unaware of the state of genre and sim games today, unless your intent was to be primarily disparaging of the game and FD which we've seen many of your posts with that bent already. I have a vague recall that you may have had gameplay experience in flight simulators, so I find it hard to believe you are omitting and taking for granted so many of the outstanding bar-setting achievements of the ED spacesim world outright.

Most already can tell the difference, but just repeating it where Skyrim is of course a solo game and a mapped scope far smaller than ED where Tamriel may be 1/20th the size of Earth. Bethsesda was a pioneer in procedural generation with Arena and parts of Daggerfall, but since Todd Howard took over, the more rpg complexity and mechanics have had been far dumbed down progressively since Morrowind followed by Oblivion and Skyrim. A similar simplification in favor of cosmetics and animations went along the fallout line as well from Fallout 3,NV , Fallout 4 and now Fallout '76. Maybe you're completely new to Bethsesda games, but Elder Scrolls Online would be at least a far more pertinent although still very weak example for comparison with it being a true MMO infrastructure with gameplay rules and limitations adjustments in consideration of MMO balancing among a population of concurrent players sharing the same verse while Skyrim literally has no such considerations and is very easy to be overpowered with nexus mods and cheats and the main quest can be completed quickly under a hundred hours. So I'd suggest enjoy your break, and see you back at the next major updates as most everyone else who left including the naysayers do return then.

 

[Captain Jack Sparrow]

It's not the players that burn out, it's the game that fizzles.
You got your Conda, your Vette and the Cutter, you've been to SagA*, Beagle point and the top of the galaxy. You are triple Elite, you got 10bn sitting in your account, what next?
Everything is engineered, the NPCs don't stand a chance, Thargoids are optional and not a threat per se - I think I can speak for many when I say: I'd like a challenge, something that I can only do in an engineered Anaconda, that I cannot do in a Sidewinder or a Vulture.
And don't tell me to go exploring or mining - been there done that. The mission board isn't really a challenge or appealing. Sure it had its highlights back in the days, when we needed Articulated Motors and other parts to unlock the engineers or to get some credits and ranks and rep. But eventually you are just done with the "lowbie" stuff and want something different.

Yes, the grind in this game is real, especially for Combat. You don't "just hit accidentally" Elite in Combat by shooting the odd NPC interdicting you.

And no one forces you to try and "hit" Elite in Combat. that is a self imposed grind. I'm not combat elite and i"m not going to bounty hunt for 12 straight hours to get it. If you don't like pirating, mining, exploring, trade, bounty hunting, missions, etc, then the game is not for you. Those are the activities in the game. I have over 4 Billion in Assets with 1.3 Billion in my account. But I still pirate, explore, trade, mine, run missions, etc. Because I enjoy that stuff. I don't do it for the money. I spent 2 hours the other night running rescue missions. Didn't do it for the money, as it only paid around 1mil a run. I don't need the rank, I'm double Elite with 2 Cutters and a Corvette. So no rank need. I do those things because like many, I enjoy them. If you only do it to "rank" up to acquire ships, then the game is not for you. Players like you need a game to tell you what to do, and that's fine, but this game is an open sandbox that lets you choose your path. We play this game to fly space shps, if you don't enjoy that, then the game isn't the problem, you are. Move on.

 

[Arkadi]

deleted

 

[m0rl0ck]

The grind in Skyrim is exactly the same as the grind in ED. Take away the story quests (which is specific handcrafted SP content that ED doesn't have) and you're left with the same thing. Grinding out dagger after dagger to rank your smith skill. Doing the tour of mines/fields/rocks etc to collect the materials to craft (boy is that identical to ED) for those skills. Kill lots of things while spamming an attack to grind your combat skills (almost exactly like ED except your real skill improves and not a spreadsheet in ED). About the only thing that's different is you can fast travel.

I dont care for smithing and the game doesnt force me to do it, unlike the engineers and ED.

I have well over 130 hours in SSE and my smithing is just awful, playing at expert level, and this is exactly my point, i dont like smithing and the game doesnt force me to do it. I can still kill enemies using archery, magic, stealth and light armor. Now if FD would have designed the game, id probably have to fetch the blacksmith some tea and cigars and not be able to wear armor or engage in combat until i had mined, smelted, forged and crafted the armor myself.

That is exactly my point. Skyrim actually DOES let me play the game the way i want to.

 

[Micha]

I dont care for smithing and the game doesnt force me to do it, unlike the engineers and ED.

Nobody *forces* you to Engineer in ED either. I've just started a new game and I'm perfectly capable of fighting in my unengineered Cobra.

 

[m0rl0ck]

Nobody *forces* you to Engineer in ED either. I've just started a new game and I'm perfectly capable of fighting in my unengineered Cobra.

Dont expect that to last.

 

[metatheurgist]

I dont care for smithing and the game doesnt force me to do it, unlike the engineers and ED.

I have well over 130 hours in SSE and my smithing is just awful, playing at expert level, and this is exactly my point, i dont like smithing and the game doesnt force me to do it. I can still kill enemies using archery, magic, stealth and light armor. Now if FD would have designed the game, id probably have to fetch the blacksmith some tea and cigars and not be able to wear armor or engage in combat until i had mined, smelted, forged and crafted the armor myself.

That is exactly my point. Skyrim actually DOES let me play the game the way i want to.

Smithing is just one example, so you're grinding out archery, magic and stealth instead. Big whoop. The only reason you can't do that in ED is because it's not an RPG with individual skills for you to grind.