The Open Only Incentive

[Ethaidan]

I doubt even 1% plays open only. The "gankers" know how to stay out of fights they can't win. They go solo/pg for engineering, farming mats etc. Nobody does Dav's hope in open for example. Open only needs a whole new play style.

I doubt you're even close to correct. So if Open Only needs a whole new play style, what you're suggesting is people need to play like me? Not that I disagree, I am bloody spectacular, but my play style is really not that 'new', I have a small fleet of ships, all G5 engineered (some combat focused, mostly multipurpose, one mining), and importantly, I pay attention to what's going on around me. Mostly, except when I'm tired, or just back from the pub - like the other night when I shut down to reboot & repair, after lifting off, only to be reminded about gravity.

To be fair, I am playing in a PG for the first time ever atm, not to avoid gankers, but because where I am there's nobody else around who isn't in the PG. If I'm honest, the complete lack of any potential danger from other pilots is turning me into a lazy pilot.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

I doubt even 1% plays open only. The "gankers" know how to stay out of fights they can't win. They go solo/pg for engineering, farming mats etc. Nobody does Dav's hope in open for example. Open only needs a whole new play style.

Lol, Dav's Hope isn't even gameplay per se.

That said, I always do it in open unless someone else is keeping the mats from respawning.
But that has nothing to do with avoiding combat.
There's just no real point in being there otherwise.
I'm not even a ganker/griefer per se.
I also do all my powerplay in open.

Don't be so afraid.

Learning (when) to survive and escape are vital skills.
Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Lestat]

I doubt even 1% plays open only. The "gankers" know how to stay out of fights they can't win. They go solo/pg for engineering, farming mats etc. Nobody does Dav's hope in open for example. Open only needs a whole new play style.

Basiclly your idea is to FORCE people who don't visit Major hubs into open for your enjoyment of PvP. You already tried to deny it with your earlier posts until I look at your post history and found your real intent.

You love to kill innocent players who have NO bounty my guess you target either Explores in DW2 if you are chasing them. Or Traders who have no real weapons and never asking for cargo as a pirate would. You just want to force players into open so you can kill them off.

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

I doubt even 1% plays open only. The "gankers" know how to stay out of fights they can't win. They go solo/pg for engineering, farming mats etc. Nobody does Dav's hope in open for example. Open only needs a whole new play style.

I do.

Selectively.

As an advocate for OOPP I would be hypocritical if I was to use the solo/PG. There are a very big group of us who don't really care if we get caught with our pants down by someone looking to get revenge. More power too em. I'm not about to be one of the slimy (And often very mouthy) greifers who runs to solo when thier wing logs off. I hate those people. Cowardice is what it is.

I will admit I've been forced into them on occasion due to unbearble unstable networking in open, but that is very much in the rarity.

 

[Lestat]

Understand already that I don't want to force you in open. I don't want to see you and people that think like you anywhere near the space I am in. If I could I'd force you not to play open.

Then please stop making ideas to force players into the open. Your idea caters to bad game design.

Also, We already have ways to get extra FSD distance. Everything to Farming the material to jump farther, to Neutron stars to get the extra boost.

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

Ok I'm wrong about the number. But I'm sure with an incentive like that it'd grow.

Oh 100%.

OOPP. Simplest thing for FDev to do.

They were talking about it, and even if they say they'd done no work on the matter, they must have had plans for it.

Incentivise the players to partake in PP by adding in things like material packet drops (Rank dependent), or discounts on insurance paid for by your chosen power etc.

They could do so much to fill up the numbers in open and not to metion incentivise competative gameplay by reducing the penalties on the loosing side.

At the end of the day, the two types to complain about being killed by player are either people who are miffed about the rebuy (In which case they probably are early game and it's kinda understandable)

Or there is the type who just hates anyone getting one over on them. They can afford a million rebuys. But they still complain, either just because they can, or because they dont like being beaten

Solving he two main issues with such players would be easier for the first. The second? Well. Personally I can't fathom how to deal with pride like that. IMO, suck it up buttercup. a mild inconvinience and a little time is nothing anyone should be concerned about in this game.

FDev needs to get on the carrot over the stick. As we all well know the C&P system is easily circumvented by the PvPers and super inconvinient for PvE players.


Give us content PLEASE.

Also killing a ship in legitamate powerplay PvP should make them drop both a bounty bond equal to your rebuy. (Risk v reward) As well as a selection of G5 materials. (Randomised to prevent too much abuse)

Also more incentives to get into engineering should be applied as the grind wall is another thing that puts people off starting to PvP. Maybe just make all materials more frequent or something. Im not too sure how to balance the latter but there is some merit to it im sure.

 

[Para Handy]

First of all in real life I'd be already suing you. Your false accusations are ridiculous. Get one single player that saw me anywhere near DW2, or anyone that I just blew up outside CG systems or PP.
Understand already that I don't want to force you in open. I don't want to see you and people that think like you anywhere near the space I am in. If I could I'd force you not to play open.

Once again you resort to histrionics and personal attacks instead of trying to frame a reasoned argument to support your desire to encourage more people to play in Open.

I put it to you before, as has Lestat, that the only purpose people have in trying to increase the number of people into Open is to provide them with "content" - whether for piracy or outright PvP (N.B. once again I specifically have not mentioned "gankers" so don't try to pull that one again).

Now instead of attacking people who question why you want more players in Open give us a reasoned argument that doesn't involve those additional players forming a source of some kind of PvP "content" for you. Go on, try - it was your OP so justify it.

 

[Brian of Earth]

"Come to the dark side, we have cookies (and death, but mostly cookies)."

Coming up on 4 years in this game, and still this issue hasn't changed. Maybe the cookies will work..

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

Once again you resort to histrionics and personal attacks instead of trying to frame a reasoned argument to support your desire to encourage more people to play in Open.

I put it to you before, as has Lestat, that the only purpose people have in trying to increase the number of people into Open is to provide them with "content" - whether for piracy or outright PvP (N.B. once again I specifically have not mentioned "gankers" so don't try to pull that one again).

Now instead of attacking people who question why you want more players in Open give us a reasoned argument that doesn't involve those additional players forming a source of some kind of PvP "content" for you. Go on, try - it was your OP so justify it.

I can justify it..

Pretty simply it encourages both competition, for those interested. And Cohesion for those who are not.

Sure there will always be those who want an easy ride, but the majority are'nt like that.

I like the whole nationalisim of EVE or VO. I woul like to see a peice of that kind of dynamic in Elite. More cohesion and more wars between large player groups.

If that was happening in open only, not only would some of the events be something to behold, the galaxy would go a long way to feeling more populated and alive. Which can never be a bad thing.

Also there is the fact that statistically, the more targets there are, the odds of one being specifically targeted drop exponentially. Let alone targeted multiple times.

Personally I see things such as OOPP to have to potential to revolutionise how people interact with each other in this game. It might not sure, but IMO its a risk worth taking.

Nice hat BTW.

 

[khaos526]

I think I remember that. But not sure where the topic was or when.

I also Agree. I am in 3 different private groups. Well, 2 Mobius servers (different accounts) and Fleetcomm.

bummer. You never tried the workarounds with Macs.

I know I've seen it discussed numerous times, just can't recall the last time I heard about it.

As with private groups, I am in Mobius as well and Fleetcom. Though the Mobius group I rarely if ever see anyone. Think it's because I joined it a year or two ago and got in the 2nd one as the main was was capped out. Hell I'm on the DW2 in Fleetcom and rarely ever see anyone.

As for the original idea about incentives in Open only, ED has done a wonderful job letting people play the way they want and with as little or as many people as they want. Why punish those who don't want to play with others?

If anything maybe the idea can be pushed for something like a PVP decal for your ship and that would be the incentive. Not full module increases and definitely not an FSD boost which has nothing to do with combat and PVP in the first place...

 

[CenturionPuch]

Then please stop making ideas to force players into the open. Your idea caters to bad game design.

Also, We already have ways to get extra FSD distance. Everything to Farming the material to jump farther, to Neutron stars to get the extra boost.

just go away

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

Then please stop making ideas to force players into the open. Your idea caters to bad game design.

Also, We already have ways to get extra FSD distance. Everything to Farming the material to jump farther, to Neutron stars to get the extra boost.

I think the majority plays in open don't they?

I'm sure the majority would rather a galaxy that feels alive and full of people. (My chosen content nonetheless.)

Quite frankly bad game design is divvying up your community into them and us groups right from the off. They set the precedent and now we all have to live with contant bickering as a result.


More OO content including PP and some changes to the BGS which result in Open play moves yeilding higher results (Risk vs reward)


Simple things, easy to do (relatively), and they would make a massive difference to the game as a whole.


The thing I don't get though.. Is why people who already have a fair few PvE activities avalible to them, would be so against OO content for the PvPers. Surely the PvPers having content means less trouble for the Pve group?
Or is it just that you don't like anyone who enjoys Pvp out of some misplaced forum based opinions, and reckon that the "sociopaths and psychopaths" (PvPers) should'nt even be allowed to play games with social elements.

Because they are the only two answers as to why someone would be against PvP based content. The only ones.

 

[znôrt]

As of now there's no point playing in open unless one wants to. If you don't want PvP/ganking, you just go solo or pg and do everything you can do in open be done with it.
But what if there was something in open that everyone wants but you can only get it if you play open?
Here's my idea:
After 4 weeks of open only playing, you get access to "spice" or call it whatever, that gives you a 100-150% FSD boost. There's a module to store it, it gets used up so it needs refills.
This stuff is mined/milked and sold in only one place in the galaxy, that happens to be an anarchy system with a station/city called something like Mos Eisley. It is Dangerous to go there, but you can hire commanders to wing up and escort you in if you're not so sure of yourself in surrounding systems.
Spice is what makes trade faster, exploration more efficient and moving around combat builds less of a pain. Everyone wants it.




Do You?

that's actually a good idea (and i love the detail of choosing spice XDDD) but i don't think it would work with the current implementation as it is not suited for open conflict with stakes. you'd need another game for this with proper and working pvp infrastructure. so no, it would be just another disfunctional feature like bounty hunting, piracy, etc ... a waste of development time.

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

nobody wants to see you in open. go play elite the way you want it, I hope to never see you online.

Yours was more succinct.

 

[Para Handy]

nobody wants to see you in open. go play elite the way you want it, I hope to never see you online.

Yeah I didn't think you had any argument in justification of your OP.

Ad hom is pitiful really.

I can justify it..

Pretty simply it encourages both competition, for those interested. And Cohesion for those who are not.

.......

Also there is the fact that statistically, the more targets there are, the odds of one being specifically targeted drop exponentially. Let alone targeted multiple times.

.......

So you see, your justification involves providing "content" for people that want adversarial contact with other players. Like I said from the outset, that is the overarching motivation for the preaching of "more players in Open please" time and again in many guises.


Now just to counter the proposal that we should have more people in Open so that there can be more adversarial content, here is my two penn'orth:

Provide an instance-wide or system-wide open voice channel.

Murder-hobos (player-killers) outside of CZ gain notoriety that is never reset until death and death means clearing their save.

Thus you have overcome my main aversion to Open which is the clunky text-comms which I really can't be bottomed with. Secondly you destroy at a stroke all PK-types and provide PvP-aficionados with CZ and Anarchy systems. The addition of PP-flags so that PP-based PvP be allowed could be included.

So PvP people can have PvP to their heart's content and people adverse to that can just try to avoid Anarchy space.

Bet there won't be a lot of support for this though, there never has been in all the time since I first mentioned it after Engineers ruined the game.

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

Yeah I didn't think you had any argument in justification of your OP.

Ad hom is pitiful really.

I made the points you are looking for.

Scroll up!

 

[Para Handy]

I made the points you are looking for.

Scroll up!

I replied to them in an edit - scroll up too.

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

Yeah I didn't think you had any argument in justification of your OP.

Ad hom is pitiful really.





So you see, your justification involves providing "content" for people that want adversarial contact with other players. Like I said from the outset, that is the overarching motivation for the preaching of "more players in Open please" time and again in many guises.


Now just to counter the proposal that we should have more people in Open so that there can be more adversarial content, here is my two penn'orth:

Provide an instance-wide or system-wide open voice channel.

Murder-hobos (player-killers) outside of CZ gain notoriety that is never reset until death and death means clearing their save.

Thus you have overcome my main aversion to Open which is the clunky text-comms which I really can't be bottomed with. Secondly you destroy at a stroke all PK-types and provide PvP-aficionados with CZ and Anarchy systems. The addition of PP-flags so that PP-based PvP be allowed could be included.

So PvP people can have PvP to their heart's content and people adverse to that can just try to avoid Anarchy space.

Bet there won't be a lot of support for this though, there never has been in all the time since I first mentioned it after Engineers ruined the game.

I'll level with you. i was willing to have a contructive conversation about this.

My only respons is.

HA! xD Are you actually serious?

Its crap like this that just makes me think the Pve community is just full of toxicity.

We might kill people in game, but we don't advocate for destroying the time and effort of literally THOUSANDS of hours simply because we don't like someones style of play. A rebuy is 20 minutes. If that.
Save clear? Several REAL weeks.
Do you understand why people think it's a ridicuous suggestion?

Also system wide voice chat? Are you mad?!

Many of us play to escape the morons that inhabit RL. The last thing I want is bunch of adults who can't handle the illusion of spacecommandermaximusuntouchable being shattered and throwing absolute virtiol down the voice chat because their pride and egos got dented in a bloody game. No. I definatly dont want that.

No thanks.

Hard pass.

 

[CMDR M. Lehman]

Murder-hobos (player-killers) outside of CZ gain notoriety that is never reset until death and death means clearing their save.

I always chuckle when people advocate MAXIMUMDEATHSMACKDOWN against people who PvP. I can only speculate that those who suicidewinder players outside stations positively salivate at the thought of such mechanics being implemented. C and P would be weaponized overnight to send countless players to not only rebuy screens, but cleared accounts. The salt would be legendary. The angry emails to support, legion. You would be the greatest enabler of asymmetrical ganking in Elite history.

Didnt think that one through, did you?

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

I always chuckle when people advocate MAXIMUMDEATHSMACKDOWN against people who PvP. I can only speculate that those who suicidewinder players outside stations positively salivate at the thought of such mechanics being implemented. C and P would be weaponized overnight to send countless players to not only rebuy screens, but cleared accounts. The salt would be legendary. The angry emails to support, legion. You would be the greatest enabler of asymmetrical ganking in Elite history.

Didnt think that one through, did you?

Oh well played you.