PvP Distant Worlds? More like Distant Jerks

[Morbad]

In any society, even dystopian, there is a form a natural justice ie. you do wrong to me, expect something equally unpleasant in return.

There are consequences for being caught doing what others disapprove of, perhaps even self-inflicted consequences for those prone to do things they may regret, but karma is a fantasy and 'justice' is wholly subjective.

The "Hunt other Commanders" tagline does not seem possible at the present time. The tools to track, and then instance with other Commanders does not appear to be working quite right.

Hunting the CMDRs of experienced players, that don't want to be hunted, is indeed virtually impossible.

This is apparently by design. Frontier is well aware of the myriad of tools, both in-character and out-of-character, that make such activities impossible; they implemented and have endorsed most of them them.

Block lists, fifteen second log off timers, high-waking that takes a handful of seconds, frequent instance transitions that reset pursuit, etc and so forth.

The game is one where everything is optional, especially confrontation and loss.

 

[Ca$hback]

While it seems self-righteous and arrogant I admire those trying to help others develop a thicker skin. If you get all whiny about loss in a game, they're doing you a favor by trying to desensitized you to disappointment. My equally asinine armchair psychology suggests fragile people maintain and foster a lot of that fragility as a virtue when it serves no purpose and illustrates someone missing a fair amount of perspective, like the young Gautama. But what do I know?

 

[CMDR M. Lehman]

While it seems self-righteous and arrogant I admire those trying to help others develop a thicker skin. If you get all whiny about loss in a game, they're doing you a favor by trying to desensitized you to disappointment. My equally asinine armchair psychology suggests fragile people maintain and foster a lot of that fragility as a virtue when it serves no purpose and illustrates someone missing a fair amount of perspective, like the young Gautama. But what do I know?

A lot more than them, it would seem.

 

[Zoltah-Talion]

While it seems self-righteous and arrogant I admire those trying to help others develop a thicker skin. If you get all whiny about loss in a game, they're doing you a favor by trying to desensitized you to disappointment. My equally asinine armchair psychology suggests fragile people maintain and foster a lot of that fragility as a virtue when it serves no purpose and illustrates someone missing a fair amount of perspective, like the young Gautama. But what do I know?

If you are seriously suggesting that the distant gankers are motivated by 'helping others', then yes, what do you know? All these many pages of familiar and tiresome posturing by the star lords got started due to a single outraged user venting their frustration. As noted previously the user was met with the usual toxicity from some, while others tried to be civil and help out in various ways. I don't see a queue of fragile souls spurning the altruism of PvP enthusiasts, but hey don't let me get in the way of the bromance.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

If you are seriously suggesting that the distant gankers are motivated by 'helping others', then yes, what do you know? All these many pages of familiar and tiresome posturing by the star lords got started due to a single outraged user venting their frustration. As noted previously the user was met with the usual toxicity from some, while others tried to be civil and help out in various ways. I don't see a queue of fragile souls spurning the altruism of PvP enthusiasts, but hey don't let me get in the way of the bromance.

That's because
a) you don't actually communicate with any of them apparently,
b) you're operating under your preconceived notions, and
c) you haven't been paying attention to the non-gankers speaking of that perceived value; ethelred, Krash...

 

[Zoltah-Talion]

That's because
a) you don't actually communicate with any of them apparently,
b) you're operating under your preconceived notions, and
c) you haven't been paying attention to the non-gankers speaking of that perceived value; ethelred, Krash...

I have had numerous exchanges with "them" on these boards. Does that count as "communication"? On one of my very earliest appearances here I was quite literally and gratuitously wished "good riddance" by one of "them", followed up by you telling me something along the lines of "smart people wish that to undesirable people." lol
So do pardon my "preconceived" notions.
I have subsequently on more than one occasion indicated my willingness to accommodate you guys preferred playstyle and to learn from those of you who conduct yourselves with dignity and grace. I have great respect for Krash and others who clearly love the aggressive aspects of the game but feel no need to rub others faces in it. Perhaps you and the more 'vocal' PvPers should be learning from them.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

I have had numerous exchanges with "them" on these boards. Does that count as "communication". On one of my very earliest appearances here I was quite literally wished "good riddance" by one of "them", followed up by you telling me something along the lines of "smart people wish that to undesirable people." lol
So do pardon my "preconceived" notions.
I have subsequently on more than one occasion indicated my willingness to accommodate you guys preferred playstyle and to learn from those of you who conduct yourselves with dignity and grace. I have great respect for Krash and others who clearly love the aggressive aspects of the game but feel no need to rub others faces in it. Perhaps you and the more 'vocal' PvPers should be learning from them.

No that doesn't sound like communication to me.

So you're lecturing me now?
On dignity and grace no less?

LOL!


I can see why you were called undesirable!

Refuting nonsense is hard work.
It has nothing to do with rubbing anyone's face in anything.

It's orders of magnitude harder than producing it.

If you had respect you'd be listening, but you're not, not even to those you claim to have respect for.

 

[Zoltah-Talion]

No that doesn't sound like communication to me.

So you're lecturing me now?
On dignity and grace no less?

LOL!


I can see why you were called undesirable!

Refuting nonsense is hard work.
It has nothing to do with rubbing anyone's face in anything.

It's orders of magnitude harder than producing it.

If you had respect you'd be listening, but you're not, not even to those you claim to have respect for.

And I think all of that proves my point. Thank you.

 

[Slange Lands]

Maybe some people who complain about being blown up just want sympathy? Who else but to go to another Elite player for solace? Some probably already damn well knew they made a mistake in choosing Open. Some probably know they should have put heavy duty armor on their light weight alloy. Some probably know they should have submitted instead of fought.

When I was younger and actually sought others for comfort, the last thing I wanted to be told was I was an incompetent fool, buck up.

Argue as much as you would like about which/what perspective is more valid. I really don't think it will go anywhere. However, we might question ourselves as to why we are so unsympathetic.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

And I think all of that proves my point. Thank you.

No, you just reinforced all of mine, eg your pigeon-holing of people.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Maybe some people who complain about being blown up just want sympathy? Who else but to go to another Elite player for solace? Some probably already damn well knew they made a mistake in choosing Open. Some probably know they should have put heavy duty armor on their light weight alloy. Some probably know they should have submitted instead of fought.

When I was younger and actually sought others for comfort, the last thing I wanted to be told was I was an incompetent fool, buck up.

Argue as much as you would like about which/what perspective is more valid. I really don't think it will go anywhere. However, we might question ourselves as to why we are so unsympathetic.

Did you lash out at the big kids just playing the games they played?

Did you call them jerks, like the OP did?

Or did you launch into some fallacious, insult based armchair psychology?

I am unsympathetic to those that lash out, pigeon hole, open with name calling etc.
That is par for the course here, and it's a perfectly reasonable position on my part.

Want to have some respect?
Start by giving some.

It's also personal responsibility to learn about any community before entering and aiming to assimilate, we shouldn't be crowing for accommodation from the get go.
That's utterly arrogant.


Try that in a foreign country some time.

 

[Slange Lands]

Did you lash out at the big kids just playing the games they played?

Did you call them jerks, like the OP did?

Or did you launch into some fallacious, insult based armchair psychology?

I am unsympathetic to those that lash out, pigeon hole, open with name calling etc.
That is par for the course here, and it's a perfectly reasonable position on my part.

Want to have some respect?
Start by giving some.

It's also personal responsibility to learn about any community before entering and aiming to assimilate, we shouldn't be crowing for accommodation from the get go.
That's utterly arrogant.


Try that in a foreign country some time.

Have you never made a mistake?
Have you never been forgiven and felt gratitude for the forgiver?

I am forever in debt to those who gave me sympathy, understanding, margin and the benefit of the doubt. I posted the above in an attempt to do the same but apparently it backfired on your part.

o7

 

[Feros-da-Grundig]

No thoughts on not being able to track the attacker after then?

I see how it works now. One incorrect point invalidates all other points. Sounds reasonable logic to me.

[...]must be in a special club[...]

I was a bit rude for which I apologize.

However when the one error is something extremely obvious to anyone who actually has done moderate amounts of PvP it does make it hard to take the rest of the post seriously. I wouldn't call it a special club, but once someone spends a few months PvP'ing it becomes quickly obvious what the major flaws are.

1. The biggest single flaw is combat logging of any kind. Until that is fixed any meaningful PvP proposal is doomed.

2. WRT to your proposal... cross instance persistent wakes with time decay weighted by notoriety, bounty, rebuy and cargo value is much simpler and would be more effective at bringing in a wide variety of commanders in a wide variety of roles. This is very important in a sparse galaxy. Your proposal did not bring in the PvP community as a whole - it seemed more vendetta oriented. Also, since galmap is very buggy on console, I cannot endorse any proposal reliant on it.

3. Having any sort of mechanic at all that was limited to open would also help. Likewise various tweaks/improvements/bug fixes to instancing.

None of these things will ever happen though so it's all moot.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Want to have some respect?
Start by giving some.

I don't see some "mercenaries" do their part in that equation.

 

[SkyWarrior]

I totally agree with you! There should be more of a fine and system in place for those that like to kill an explorer ship with no weapons or "goodies" on board.

 

[jasonbarron]

I totally agree with you! There should be more of a fine and system in place for those that like to kill an explorer ship with no weapons or "goodies" on board.

There were goodies.

 

[Morbad]

However, we might question ourselves as to why we are so unsympathetic.

Part of it is because I'm a jaded cynic who has endured all of these things and come out better for them.

Part of it is because many (though not all) of the complainants are thoroughly unsympathetic themselves. People who should have known better, could have done better, but want other players to transform to accommodate their own lazy and selfish proclivities rather than adapt to the game they have and the reality their character's exist in.

 

[Zoltah-Talion]

...People who should have known better, could have done better, but want other players to transform to accommodate their own lazy and selfish proclivities rather than adapt to the game they have and the reality their character's exist in.

The game is not reality. It's just pixels, isn't it? No need to really care about anything in it, it's "just a game, dude." That's what I've been told more than once by PvP people, including some of the distant gankers. The 'reality' is that every person who posts here, every person who 'plays the game' is a real person... playing a game. Whether their words and conduct here comes over as sympathetic/unsympathetic, overbearing/meek, agreeable/disagreeable is surely irrelevant. Everyone still has a right to civility and consideration.

Ftr, before anyone starts telling me how what people do in games means nothing, how some of the nicest people in the world are those who go around meticulously planning how to cause maximum upset to innocuous users of a video game, my own personal view is that the games we play and how we choose to play them are in fact deeply reflective of who we are as human beings... all alone inside our skulls. Heresy I know, but otherwise why would anyone invest time, energy, emotion or money in them? Just my point of view, and if we're not here to listen to each other and freely exchange views and ideas, then I don't see the point of any of this anyway.

 

[Morbad]

The game is not reality.

I was speaking in terms of how an in-game character perceives the world around them, which is their reality, even if it has little resemblance to ours.

It's just pixels, isn't it? No need to really care about anything in it, it's "just a game, dude." That's what I've been told more than once by PvP people, including some of the distant gankers.

I take my entertainment quite seriously and consider it important and fulfilling part of games like this to become invested in my characters.

I can still tell the difference between myself and my characters, and our respective realities.

Everyone still has a right to civility and consideration.

And this is generally what other players get from me, even if my CMDR is destroying their CMDR's vessel for a reason that may be an utter mystery to them.

I respect the game and those playing it by keeping negative out-of-character interactions to a minimum and adhering to the game's rules to the best of my ability. Accommodation beyond this is as unreasonable as asking me not to place the opposing king in check when the opportunity presents itself in a game of chess. I will play my characters as I deem fit, within the rules of the game, and if someone doesn't like how my character behaves, they are free to have their character do something about it.

Ftr, before anyone starts telling me how what people do in games means nothing, how some of the nicest people in the world are those who go around meticulously planning how to cause maximum upset to innocuous users of a video game, my own personal view is that the games we play and how we choose to play them are in fact deeply reflective of who we are as human beings... all alone inside our skulls.

The only criteria that really matters to me with regard to other players is if they can follow the rules of the game or not. Beyond that, I have no way of knowing, nor do I care in the least, who they are as human beings, or even if they are human beings. I'd be perfectly content surrounded by convincing chatter bots to fight.

Your interpretations of what someone is like based on the actions of their character may or may not be accurate, but I don't see how they are relevant either way.

Just my point of view, and if we're not here to listen to each other and freely exchange views and ideas, then I don't see the point of any of this anyway.

That is what the forums are for.

 

[ethelred]

Everyone still has a right to civility and consideration.

Indeed they have.

Come and stick with me, or pilots like me and we'll teach/help/show you how to thwart these people using skills already in the game. With practice, no matter what you're flying, you'll be safe from any ganker.

It'll be a beautiful adventure.