PvP Distant Worlds? More like Distant Jerks

[WeComeInPeace]

The OP sugested that gankers are jerks. Not that PvP'ers are.

I haven't seen any posts here that doesn't support the OP, one way or the other. I personally didn't buy this game to be ganked. Yes I knew about the jerks from online simracing, and I'd read about pirates, assassins and mercenaries on the Wiki, and thought, wow what an interesting sandbox. I still haven't seen anywhere in neither the marketing of ED or the Wiki, where ganking is mentioned as a role. In fact, let me quote from the wiki:

"Ganking: Attacking other players when the odds are greatly against the victim, i.e. they have a much less powerful ship, are new to the game, or are greatly outnumbered. If unjustified by any game mechanic such as powerplay or piracy, it may be considered abusive (see griefing below).

Griefer: A player who deliberately irritates and harasses other players."

After watching a load of videos and reading a similar load of articles on this, I have to conclude that the majority of gankers are young people. I've done things when I was young that could have caused way more grief than ganking noobs in ED, so it's not that I don't understand. Even when you grow up IRL you realize that being a jerk often gives you an edge.

I love ED, and I'm fine with the rules as they are. If Fdev wanted anything else than wild west anarchy ruled by teenagers with huge caliber guns, there were many things they could change. They haven't.

Some might think I'm disrespectful. That I don't respect the skills of some PvP'ers. I do recognize their skills. It's how you use those skills that earns my respect. In ED and IRL, and the more I learn about this, the more I see a connection between both.

 

[Old Duck]

The OP suggested...

The OPer has been strangely silent for most of this discussion, which IMO hurts his case a bit, at least in regards to my initial sympathy for him.

A funny side-effect of this thread is it makes me wish I could play in Open again, LOL. Griefers actually make for some good "end game" content

 

[Goose4291]

Indeed they have.

Come and stick with me, or pilots like me and we'll teach/help/show you how to thwart these people using skills already in the game. With practice, no matter what you're flying, you'll be safe from any ganker.

It'll be a beautiful adventure.

Brace yourself.

You're about to be accused of telling someone to 'git gud'

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

The OPer has been strangely silent for most of this discussion, which IMO hurts his case a bit, at least in regards to my initial sympathy for him.

Perhaps he gave up. Maybe even stopped playing. Not posting about that is the right decision, since there are those who get a kick out of other players quitting the game out of disgust. That's a win in their book.

edit: By the way, judging the threads in the PvP section of the forum, it is a clear indicator what the ganker's objective is. It's attention. As always. "Please notice us!"

I myself get a kick out of Distant Gankers having to constantly draw attention to Distant Ganks because no one else, besides the forum junkies like me ridiculing them, is paying them any. My armchair psychologist is having a field day

 

[Goose4291]

The OP sugested that gankers are jerks. Not that PvP'ers are.

I haven't seen any posts here that doesn't support the OP, one way or the other. I personally didn't buy this game to be ganked. Yes I knew about the jerks from online simracing, and I'd read about pirates, assassins and mercenaries on the Wiki, and thought, wow what an interesting sandbox. I still haven't seen anywhere in neither the marketing of ED or the Wiki, where ganking is mentioned as a role. In fact, let me quote from the wiki:

"Ganking: Attacking other players when the odds are greatly against the victim, i.e. they have a much less powerful ship, are new to the game, or are greatly outnumbered. If unjustified by any game mechanic such as powerplay or piracy, it may be considered abusive (see griefing below).

Griefer: A player who deliberately irritates and harasses other players."

After watching a load of videos and reading a similar load of articles on this, I have to conclude that the majority of gankers are young people. I've done things when I was young that could have caused way more grief than ganking noobs in ED, so it's not that I don't understand. Even when you grow up IRL you realize that being a jerk often gives you an edge.

I love ED, and I'm fine with the rules as they are. If Fdev wanted anything else than wild west anarchy ruled by teenagers with huge caliber guns, there were many things they could change. They haven't.

Some might think I'm disrespectful. That I don't respect the skills of some PvP'ers. I do recognize their skills. It's how you use those skills that earns my respect. In ED and IRL, and the more I learn about this, the more I see a connection between both.

If you.look back a few pages, you'll see part of the problem is that the moment PvP gets mentioned, it immediately gets miscatagorised on this forum as 'gweefing'.

We had actual pvp pirates treated as such, same goes for powerplayers who dare to open their gunports against their rivals, player groups that gamed the BGS in a competitive manner (see: 13th Legion and CG shutdowns), and many more ridiculous mockrage conversations that have been held here on the subject of PvP.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

If you.look back a few pages, you'll see part of the problem is that the moment PvP gets mentioned, it immediately gets miscatagorised on this forum as 'gweefing'.

You will notice the queefers themselves portraying any criticism towards them as criticism towards PvP. They themselves portray themselves as poster boys for PvP.

Can you quote the post you are referring to by the way?

 

[Goose4291]

You will notice the queefers themselves portraying any criticism towards them as criticism towards PvP. They themselves portray themselves as poster boys for PvP.

I'm sorry, but when the hate mob gets their pitchforks out at the first chance without stopping to think or read, something's amiss. I know you don't want to see it, and that's fine, you do you.

It's why we had that hilarious cringe thread about 6 months ago where that bloke was complaining about him and his mate being griefed/ganked and hounded mercilessly by ONE player (not sure how that's ganking), and then after 5 or 6 pages of the usual anti-pvp/open bile, moral superiority posing and coffee shop psychology that gets thrown around here it turned out they were both pirates at a CG, and their 'ganker' was in fact a bounty hunter trying to collect the bounties on their heads.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I'm sorry, but when the hate mob gets their pitchforks out at the first chance without stopping to think or read, something's amiss. I know you don't want to see it, and that's fine, you do you.

But I do

Can you quote the post you are referring to by the way?

 

[Old Duck]

I'm sorry, but when the hate mob gets their pitchforks out ...

LOL, I'm pretty sure the OP lost a whole lot more when the PvP "hate mob" (Distant Ganks) used their "pitchforks" (engineered weapons) on him out at SAG A than you do when I use my "pitchfork" (four little letters on my keyboard - J E R K) on you. But if your advice is, "Play in PG or Solo if you can't take the heat!" then there is a forum equivalent to that as well

 

[Goose4291]

I was referring to my previous discussion with you, where again I ran down a potted history of forum consensus re: how easy it is to be placed into the 'gweefer' camp here by your actions.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

The way the gankers have been slagging off explorers, players in Fleetcomm and Mobius makes me think claiming the higher ground in this is the wrong way to look at it. I'm going to be bold and claim I have the right way to look at it. It's something I have been arguing for years.

The supposed PvE/PvP devide is an artificial construct. It's not the right line to draw. There is no PvE/PvP conflict. There are those who are beneficial to the game and those who detract from the game. Whether that plays out in game or in forum conduct.

For once I can say, some of my best friends in game are PvPers. More accurately would be: both of the friends in game I chat to are PvPers. Morbad and Anuranium. Neither shows any signs of the things I dislike about for instance those who are a part of Distant Ganks.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I was referring to my previous discussion with you, where again I ran down a potted history of forum consensus re: how easy it is to be placed into the 'gweefer' camp here by your actions.

Again, do you have a link or a quote to what you refer to here?

If you.look back a few pages, you'll see part of the problem is that the moment PvP gets mentioned, it immediately gets miscatagorised on this forum as 'gweefing'.

Because I am just as much against typifying PvPers as griefers as you are. Since it would be against players I respect.

But first I'd like to see the source.

 

[Goose4291]

Again, do you have a link or a quote to what you refer to here?

Because I am just as much against typifying PvPers as griefers as you are. Since it would be against players I respect.

But first I'd like to see the source.

As usual I'm on my phone, 4 miles offshore, using the mobile version of the forum, so no, I'm not wasting data pointing to a post that's probably 5 or 6 pages back, to

As usual I'm on my phone, 4 miles offshore, using the mobile version of the forum, so no, I'm not wasting data pointing to a post that's probably 5 or 6 pages back, to

As usual I'm on my phone, 4 miles offshore, using the mobile version of the forum, so no, I'm not wasting data pointing to a post that's probably 5 or 6 pages back, to

As usual I'm on my phone, 4 miles offshore, using the mobile version of the forum, so no, I'm not wasting data pointing to a post that's probably 5 or 6 pages back, to
But it's the last conversation we had in this thread.

 

[Wargfoot]

The way the gankers have been slagging off explorers, players in Fleetcomm and Mobius makes me think claiming the higher ground in this is the wrong way to look at it. I'm going to be bold and claim I have the right way to look at it. It's something I have been arguing for years.

The supposed PvE/PvP devide is an artificial construct. It's not the right line to draw. There is no PvE/PvP conflict. There are those who are beneficial to the game and those who detract from the game. Whether that plays out in game or in forum conduct.

For once I can say, some of my best friends in game are PvPers. More accurately would be: both of the friends in game I chat to are PvPers. Morbad and Anuranium. Neither shows any signs of the things I dislike about for instance those who are a part of Distant Ganks.

I'd agree that in a very real sense this gets to the heart of the issue.
How do you encourage 'constructive' PvP instead of the negative and 'destructive' PvP.
The first game that can do that without feeling restrictive is going to be a very successful game.

I'm willing to meet you there but we have to acknowledge there is also 'constructive' and 'destructive' PvE.
PvE can be destructive when the members of that community try to make a game (or mode) into something that it is not and then complain endlessly about it.
I can think of no better way for the PvE community to send a clear message than to simply stay out of open space.
Also, encourage things like faction warfare (guild warfare) to the developers.

Destructive PvP players are the first to quit a game when all the easy targets go away.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

The way the gankers have been slagging off explorers, players in Fleetcomm and Mobius makes me think claiming the higher ground in this is the wrong way to look at it. I'm going to be bold and claim I have the right way to look at it. It's something I have been arguing for years.

The supposed PvE/PvP devide is an artificial construct. It's not the right line to draw. There is no PvE/PvP conflict. There are those who are beneficial to the game and those who detract from the game. Whether that plays out in game or in forum conduct.

For once I can say, some of my best friends in game are PvPers. More accurately would be: both of the friends in game I chat to are PvPers. Morbad and Anuranium. Neither shows any signs of the things I dislike about for instance those who are a part of Distant Ganks.

Hang on, I am under the impression that almost all of the kills are in open.

Are you privy to other information?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I'd agree that in a very real sense this gets to the heart of the issue.
How do you encourage 'constructive' PvP instead of the negative and 'destructive' PvP.
The first game that can do that without feeling restrictive is going to be a very successful game.

I'm willing to meet you there but we have to acknowledge there is also 'constructive' and 'destructive' PvE.
PvE can be destructive when the members of that community try to make a game (or mode) into something that it is not and then complain endlessly about it.
I can think of no better way for the PvE community to send a clear message than to simply stay out of open space.

Personal comments about the real life of players is more what I was thinking off.

And I'm not even talking about playstyle, I'm talking about attitude.

Hang on, I am under the impression that almost all of the kills are in open.

Are you privy to other information?

Slagging off as in posting judgements about players in Mobius, players in Fleetcomm or explorers. The judgements from where I am sitting are coming in stereo, from both (what I consider wrongly outlined) sides, anyone claiming otherwise is simply wrong.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Personal comments about the real life of players is more what I was thinking off.

And I'm not even talking about playstyle, I'm talking about attitude.

Slagging off as in posting judgements about players in Mobius, players in Fleetcomm or explorers. The judgements from where I am sitting are coming in stereo, from both (what I consider wrongly outlined) sides, anyone claiming otherwise is simply wrong.

Perhaps you've been here too long.

I don't see it as equal at all.
Eg, I suggest tacit acceptance of such a thread title would never fly the other direction.

 

[Wargfoot]

Personal comments about the real life of players is more what I was thinking of.

There are always going to be people on the PvE side who think of everyone on the PvP side as sociopaths.
There are always going to be people on the PvP side who think of everyone on the PvE side as carebears.

^--- The thing is, for every person who falls into one of those two categories there are literally thousands of players who never visit these boards and never give the other side a moment's thought.

These forums are like FOX News or CNN (pick your poison), they run on the fuel of highlighting the worst the game has to offer.
As it is, I'm getting tons of help from PvP players and PvE players regarding technical issues.
Probably the best thing to do is find those too busy for drama and play the game with those folks.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Personal comments about the real life of players is more what I was thinking off.

And I'm not even talking about playstyle, I'm talking about attitude.

Slagging off as in posting judgements about players in Mobius, players in Fleetcomm or explorers. The judgements from where I am sitting are coming in stereo, from both (what I consider wrongly outlined) sides, anyone claiming otherwise is simply wrong.

I DO agree about the false dichotomy.

PVP requires a heavy PVE investment.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Perhaps you've been here too long.

Not perhaps. I have.