BAN THE FSS OR MAKE AN ALTERNATIVE

[-VR- Max Factor]

Burke is the only one living in my ignore bin (must be lonely there), mainly because I've no fun in watching other people caught in a mental cramp. Unfortunately, I always see him in the overview of threads and in other people's quotes. So not quite easy to escape him, especially since he seems very active right now again, while trolling almost every 3rd thread. Just do me favor: if he reacts on my posts please don't quote him. That's effectively undermining my trash bin. Thanks. [up]

I have been having a blast spamming the spammers. Whats really funny is that they hate it.

My view is that if they can't take it, they shouldn't dish it.

I also don't like the dishonesty, so as soon as I see that I out it.

I would have some respect for them if they were more honest.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Surprisingly I have thought about this, and yes it will in fact change the way the FSS works, simply because the data the old ADS provided was sufficient to fill in the Orrery, what you are effectively asking for is for the location, distance and orbit of all the bodies to be discovered by the ADS, yet to still require using the FSS to hunt bodies that we have already located. So what you want is that ADS users get instance location data and orbits and an Orrery, but FSS users still be required to spend time finding out the orbits and distance of the bodies, which simply doesn't make sense mechanically or procedural. For it to make any sense that navigational data needs to be removed because that is part of the data we are finding when using the FSS.

Basically if a body appears in the nav panel you have already located it, so why are we searching for it in the FSS, they should all just appear as located already! It's fundamental conflicts like this we need to be careful of, either you have located and have nav data to it or you haven't, you can't have it located in one interface and not located in another. There are other issues I can go through but I won't at the moment, but you can see that it's not that simple, some sort of compromise, just not the return of the old ADS wholesale because that doesn't work.

You do know that in a system which has already been explored, that's EXACTLY how it works, right? The System Map and orrery are populated with all the information, but the FSS still requires you to chase the blue blobs. Or you can do the evil cherry-picking thing and target the body from the System Map and then orient your ship towards it so it's easy to find in the FSS.

All of the objections to having both the FSS and ADS operational at the same time fall down on the fact that THEY ALREADY DO. This is how FDev designed it, and all we're asking for (not demanding, just requesting) is the option to have the same FDev-sanctioned behavior available everywhere.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

You do know that in a system which has already been explored, that's EXACTLY how it works, right? The System Map and orrery are populated with all the information, but the FSS still requires you to chase the blue blobs. Or you can do the evil cherry-picking thing and target the body from the System Map and then orient your ship towards it so it's easy to find in the FSS.

And the major difference is that the have already been discovered and only the planets that have been scanned show up, not necessarily the whole system. So no it isn't the same, but you know this is already.

All of the objections to having both the FSS and ADS operational at the same time fall down on the fact that THEY ALREADY DO. This is how FDev designed it, and all we're asking for (not demanding, just requesting) is the option to have the same FDev-sanctioned behavior available everywhere.

The objections are perfectly valid, doesn't matter how much you disagree with it. And no they do not fall down, not one single bit.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I have to disagree. Spamming the spammers is like feeding the trolls. This kind of attention is basically their basis of existence. Ignorance is usually bad style but in some exceptional circumstances it can be the only viable medicine. But now enough of that from me, he already got more attention than he deserves.

I wouldn't call it feeding the trolls. The attention I give them is not really the attention they want. Fdev will know it's the same 10 people saying the same thing again and again. They are not stupid.

 

[Burke]

People that block others do so because they lost the argument. Lol at telling everybody who you are blocking tho, wouldnt be the same if you just did it and kept it to yourself i guess.

Max all the time you keep posting i can honestly claim not to be the worst poster on here I gave you that flame warriors link out of kindess and hope that you might take the hint. Your posts are full of inconsistencies and are often just wrong but its too much trouble to keep correcting. Like the ten people comment above and when you post stuff like that just after posting how you cant stand dishonesty it undermines your argument.

@M00ka In fairness i have to admit that at first i didnt understand the FSS properly. I seem to remember posting that it was so obnoxious in its mechanics that it would leave second and third rows untagged. I did not appreciate just how much it removed the gameplay of flying. However my initial reaction of "omg wth is that?" remains to this day. The zooming is an obnoxious, off putting mechanic. So your comment about not using the beta was valid, a very long time ago. Sinse then various other issues with it have emerged and my original horrifyed reaction is pretty much justified.

 

[Para Handy]

You find it impossible that i could sum the thing up at first glance? Funny how the people who did use it appear to validate my opinion. If i was wrong i would be big enough to say so, its just that i wasnt. I solidified my opinions watching obsidian ants "how to" youtube.

Edit: i must admit, right from the start the attempts to shut down dicussion have been hilarious. You know? The desperate attempts to get threads closed, they practically forced me to continue to campaign.

First off I am calling you out on the "discussion" remark (BTW get a spell-checker installed) - you don't discuss things you just bleat on and on that the FSS is rubbish.

Second - first impressions are very often wildly mistaken. Your suggestion that "who did use it appear to validate my opinion" is just nonsense and an example of your self-delusion and the selectivity of noticing posts that you can think agree with your attitude whilst ignoring the converse.

Really, truly and honestly I find your 'I solidified my opinions watching obsidian ants "how to"' illustrates the complete absurdity of you decrying a system that you have never actually taken the trouble to explore in depth.

Your position is risible.

 

[Old Duck]

I love the FSS, but boy oh boy this eternal spinning "SCANNING...." that takes forever to resolve POIs on planets is starting to get on my nerves!

 

[Burke]

Second - first impressions are very often wildly mistaken. Your suggestion that "who did use it appear to validate my opinion" is just nonsense and an example of your self-delusion and the selectivity of noticing posts that you can think agree with your attitude whilst ignoring the converse.

Read my post at mooka.

Really, truly and honestly I find your 'I solidified my opinions watching obsidian ants "how to"' illustrates the complete absurdity of you decrying a system.

So you dont think his video is useful? It doesnt contain enough information to allow somebody to accurately judge?

 

[varonica]

I love the FSS, but boy oh boy this eternal spinning "SCANNING...." that takes forever to resolve POIs on planets is starting to get on my nerves!

Yes that's one thing they need to change, it doesn't make procedural sense either, why can the FSS tell us exactly how many sites are on a body, but then we have to wait until we probe it to find out where they are, the number should wait until probing, it doesn't really make sense otherwise. I really expect this to be changed in a patch sooner or later.

 

[Burke]

Hey varonica, im sorry if i have offended you. My statement, whilst being completely true, was not aimed at you.

 

[Old Duck]

Yes that's one thing they need to change, it doesn't make procedural sense either, why can the FSS tell us exactly how many sites are on a body, but then we have to wait until we probe it to find out where they are, the number should wait until probing, it doesn't really make sense otherwise. I really expect this to be changed in a patch sooner or later.

I completely agree with this. I don't even use the POI scan for determining if a planet is interesting from a geological perspective, as the planet stats tells us more (as in, the type of geology, which is what really matters), and instantly! When I wait for POIs to resolve, I'm strictly interested in if a planet has life or civilization, but I'm forced to sit for 30 seconds to a minute or more because Frontier seems to think that I care if a planet has 5 fumeroles or 50.... Save that for mapping.

Speaking of, I'd be okay if details like materials and their percentages required mapping instead of an FSS scan. Nerfing the FSS slightly would make mapping more meaningful and intentional.

 

[Swordfish_01]

Sheesh, Im glad Im not an explorer or miner. I will go down to a planet if i have to, usually for engineering items and metallic resources and if i have to use these new processes to get where i need to go, I will. All these y pages, as if its a major part of your lives. Again Sheesh! It is what it is, use it or die! [knocked out]

 

[Faded Glory]

I love the FSS, but boy oh boy this eternal spinning "SCANNING...." that takes forever to resolve POIs on planets is starting to get on my nerves!

You know what, quite a lot of those who very much like the FSS often add the caveats "I wish I could see the spectrum in the HUD so I don't actually have throttle down and enter the FSS (unless I want to scan things)", or your observation that "Identifying whether there are POI's present takes so long - please make it quicker FD", or "How can I tell whether a planet is terraformable from the FSS, I need this information FD".

And yet when players say they want to be able to see whether there's an unusual orbit, unusual system layout or glowing green gas giant present they are told they need to scan the system first, and tough if that turns out to be time wasted. Not only that, but they are whining and demanding totally unreasonable things. What empathy.

This isn't aimed at you Old Duck, or anybody specifically. You've stated clearly that you don't care if an optional ADS were reinstated. You just happened to be the most recent person to post one of the not uncommon requests for FD to make the FSS even quicker and less obtrusive to use. But it does happen, and if others like to call stuff out, well, it's a two way street.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

You know what, quite a lot of those who very much like the FSS often add the caveats "I wish I could see the spectrum in the HUD so I don't actually have throttle down and enter the FSS (unless I want to scan things)", or your observation that "Identifying whether there are POI's present takes so long - please make it quicker FD", or "How can I tell whether a planet is terraformable from the FSS, I need this information FD".

And yet when players say they want to be able to see whether there's an unusual orbit, unusual system layout or glowing green gas giant present they are told they need to scan the system first, and tough if that turns out to be time wasted. Not only that, but they are whining and demanding totally unreasonable things. What empathy.

This isn't aimed at you Old Duck, or anybody specifically. You've stated clearly that you don't care if an optional ADS were reinstated. You just happened to be the most recent person to post one of the not uncommon requests for FD to make the FSS even quicker and less obtrusive to use. But it does happen, and if others like to call stuff out, well, it's a two way street.

It's called stream lining. But as to POIs I would prefer it just to say geological/biological activity detected, or human/alien technology detected. No numbers, and then add search zones for probes. You know the rest as I have already mentioned it.

As to having the spectrum analysis in analysis mode, well it makes sense and I was thinking of the traveller type explorer as that gameplay has been slightly slower down.

As to unusual binaries and unusual orbits, well they are most of the time centred around gas giants, so go for then first instead of scanning the whole system.

 

[Old Duck]

You know what, quite a lot of those who very much like the FSS often add the caveats "I wish I could see the spectrum in the HUD so I don't actually have throttle down and enter the FSS (unless I want to scan things)", or your observation that "Identifying whether there are POI's present takes so long - please make it quicker FD", or "How can I tell whether a planet is terraformable from the FSS, I need this information FD".

And yet when players say they want to be able to see whether there's an unusual orbit, unusual system layout or glowing green gas giant present they are told they need to scan the system first, and tough if that turns out to be time wasted. Not only that, but they are whining and demanding totally unreasonable things. What empathy.

This isn't aimed at you Old Duck, or anybody specifically. You've stated clearly that you don't care if an optional ADS were reinstated. You just happened to be the most recent person to post one of the not uncommon requests for FD to make the FSS even quicker and less obtrusive to use. But it does happen, and if others like to call stuff out, well, it's a two way street.

It's called stream lining. But as to POIs I would prefer it just to say geological/biological activity detected, or human/alien technology detected. No numbers, and then add search zones for probes. You know the rest as I have already mentioned it.

As to having the spectrum analysis in analysis mode, well it makes sense and I was thinking of the traveller type explorer as that gameplay has been slightly slower down.

As to unusual binaries and unusual orbits, well they are most of the time centred around gas giants, so go for then first instead of scanning the whole system.

The thing with the current POI "Scanning" delay is that there is zero gameplay involved. Love or hate the FSS, at least you are doing something. Sitting around watching the equivalent to a "loading" circle is boring beyond measure. Guess what's happening as I type this right now - you got it, yet another POI scan.... It must be done by now. BRB!

Okay, 34 geological sites. Now the FSS is scanning the planet right beside it, and here I am typing in the forum again because what else am I going to do during this boring spin cycle? Oh look, 26 geological sites, how thrilling! BRB....

A bunch of "None" planets, which I almost rejoice in, and now another "Scanning planet." If I were only interesting in getting tags and credits, I could skip over this, but like many of the ADS proponents, I'm looking for interesting planets to visit. Speaking of, I have found the FSS actually helps me find things like strange and unique orbits, being a telescope. The other day I found a very fast-orbiting moon because I could see it moving in the FSS! It wasn't Mitterland Hollow, but it was fast enough to warrant my attention.

As for colorful planets, I'm afraid those days may be over. I have found some very bright and exciting-looking planets in the FSS, only to travel to the planet and find it much more muted and dull "IRL", and I suspect using the system map for this type of discovery will be equally disappointing post 3.3.

 

[Faded Glory]

As to having the spectrum analysis in analysis mode, well it makes sense and I was thinking of the traveller type explorer as that gameplay has been slightly slower down.

As to unusual binaries and unusual orbits, well they are most of the time centred around gas giants, so go for then first instead of scanning the whole system.

Slowed down, really? I can't say I noticed. I was doing what I presume is this traveler style of exploration, flying to previously tagged ELW's to map them (well, it was something to do), and between those waypoints I explored the systems I dropped into using the FSS. I was averaging about two minutes per system, counting the systems I stopped to scan along the way, and if I stopped to scan, I'd scan them fully. If it got any faster I might miss the fact that I was exploring.

But seriously, while checking a system out in the FSS might be a few seconds slower than doing so in the system map (and if it is, it's down to the throttling down and nothing else), my own experience shows me that the FSS is way more definitive for quickly identifying traditional valuable bodies so I genuinely didn't find using the FSS slower in any shape or form. The FSS has sped up exploration hugely, and clearly this was something FD wanted, so why are we using the argument that having a system map reveal might make it a second or two quicker for identifying systems you might or might not want to scan? Because isn't that what you are suggesting in having the spectrum analysis visible in the HUD, shaving a second or two off that initial decision making process by not having to throttle down and enter the FSS?

Anyway, you feel the exploration process could be streamlined, but you're still happy to suggest that someone looking for something specific that the FSS doesn't identify through the honk should have to examine everything that might be it in detail to see if it is or (more likely) is not interesting or what they are looking for. I'm struggling to see the logic I'm afraid.

As for colorful planets, I'm afraid those days may be over. I have found some very bright and exciting-looking planets in the FSS, only to travel to the planet and find it much more muted and dull "IRL", and I suspect using the system map for this type of discovery will be equally disappointing post 3.3.

Oh dear... Do planets now suffer from elephant butt leather syndrome!!

But seriously, I'll sign your petition to streamline the FSS if you'll agree that an optional ADS would be acceptable for them what want it... Damn, you already did.

 

[varonica]

Hey varonica, im sorry if i have offended you. My statement, whilst being completely true, was not aimed at you.

I am aware that sometimes we say things that while they appear to support our argument can easily offend other people unintentionally so no problem, if I was the sort to get offended by what people say on the forum I would have quit forum activity long ago.

 

[varonica]

The thing with the current POI "Scanning" delay is that there is zero gameplay involved. Love or hate the FSS, at least you are doing something. Sitting around watching the equivalent to a "loading" circle is boring beyond measure. Guess what's happening as I type this right now - you got it, yet another POI scan.... It must be done by now. BRB!

Okay, 34 geological sites. Now the FSS is scanning the planet right beside it, and here I am typing in the forum again because what else am I going to do during this boring spin cycle? Oh look, 26 geological sites, how thrilling! BRB....

I have adopted the technique of scanning everything close together really quickly, opening and closing almost before the spinning circle for nothing has stopped, then quickly flicking through them afterwards to see if there is anything there, it helps for gas giants with many moons and things but alas not for single bodies.

 

[GeneralIdea1964]

The FSS is blinking horrible, complex and a waste of time.

Just give me back the old Discovery scanner functionality, tell me where planets etc. are and what they look like then let me choose to fly to the planets to scan them in more detail.

I only need to know where the planets are.

If you want to use the FSS because that is quicker, then fine, but make it optional.
You'll still have to fly there to map surface .. so the FSS makes no sense anyway.

Apparently this is now done! Is it new, or was it always there and we didn't know?

I've wrote a separate thread by way of apology to FD -->

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...echanic-IS-still-there!?p=7486685#post7486685

Cheers

 

[Para Handy]

Apparently this is now done! Is it new, or was it always there and we didn't know?

I've wrote a separate thread by way of apology to FD -->

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...echanic-IS-still-there!?p=7486685#post7486685

Cheers

Oh dear - that is not "exploring" - that is just mucking about where other people have been already.

Seriously, if you have not arrived in a system and found a blank system map, then you have not travelled.