Ship crafting

[VR CMDR Novindus]

The option to build a ship to specification.

Basically, you choose a ship size, and either select from a number of available custom hulls with some visual customisation options, or tack pieces together with a modular approach, such as with GalCiv.

You're then given a number of points to spend on the various base ship stats and modifiers, and on the number and size of internals and hardpoints. You don't have to use all the points, and can save credits by leaving some unused.

The obvious concern here is the danger of making existing ships in the game obsolete. To counter that, I would propose that the number of points available for customisation are considerably less than what would be required to replicate configurations of existing ship models. It would make sense that a bespoke vehicle would not be up to the standards of one that an experienced manufacturer has expertly designed, engineered, and refined.

Some might think this pre-nerfing of the points would make custom ships pointless or of little use, however, if each stat/modifier and configuration option has a bare minimum value (which could in some cases be zero), and we're then able to pour all the points into one or two configuration options, we could come up with some pretty crazy, and more importantly fun designs.

For example, a ship with no hardpoints or utility mounts, a paper thin hull, the agility of a beached whale, bottom rank shield modifier, thermal modifier, and every other stat and modifier except for base jump range.
You then set minimum sized core internals except for FSD and Fuel Tank (after considering power requirements), for which you select the largest possible for the ship size. Then you allocate one Size 5, two Size 3, and one Size 2 optional internal slots. All remaining points are then poured into the base jump range modifier. Then you D rate everything except for FSD (and probably Power Plant), which you A rate, and if possible engineer, pop a 5H Guardian FSD booster into the Size 5 optional internal, a 3A Fuel scoop into one Size 3, a 3D Shield into the other Size 3, and a 2G Planetary Vehicle Hangar into the Size 2. Then you go on a long (or possibly abruptly short) range suicidal exploration adventure in the 120ly jump range newly christened Brittle Firecracker deathtrap you call a starship.

Of course, you could also make other fun builds like a pure Glass Cannon or a threadbare Cargo Sack, or something slightly more balanced. I think a lot of players would enjoy coming up with design ideas and trying them out.

 

[Azmuth Divarchchron]

The option to build a ship to specification.

Basically, you choose a ship size, and either select from a number of available custom hulls with some visual customisation options, or tack pieces together with a modular approach, such as with GalCiv.

You're then given a number of points to spend on the various base ship stats and modifiers, and on the number and size of internals and hardpoints. You don't have to use all the points, and can save credits by leaving some unused.

The obvious concern here is the danger of making existing ships in the game obsolete. To counter that, I would propose that the number of points available for customisation are considerably less than what would be required to replicate configurations of existing ship models. It would make sense that a bespoke vehicle would not be up to the standards of one that an experienced manufacturer has expertly designed, engineered, and refined.

Some might think this pre-nerfing of the points would make custom ships pointless or of little use, however, if each stat/modifier and configuration option has a bare minimum value (which could in some cases be zero), and we're then able to pour all the points into one or two configuration options, we could come up with some pretty crazy, and more importantly fun designs.

For example, a ship with no hardpoints or utility mounts, a paper thin hull, the agility of a beached whale, bottom rank shield modifier, thermal modifier, and every other stat and modifier except for base jump range.
You then set minimum sized core internals except for FSD and Fuel Tank (after considering power requirements), for which you select the largest possible for the ship size. Then you allocate one Size 5, two Size 3, and one Size 2 optional internal slots. All remaining points are then poured into the base jump range modifier. Then you D rate everything except for FSD (and probably Power Plant), which you A rate, and if possible engineer, pop a 5H Guardian FSD booster into the Size 5 optional internal, a 3A Fuel scoop into one Size 3, a 3D Shield into the other Size 3, and a 2G Planetary Vehicle Hangar into the Size 2. Then you go on a long (or possibly abruptly short) range suicidal exploration adventure in the 120ly jump range newly christened Brittle Firecracker deathtrap you call a starship.

Of course, you could also make other fun builds like a pure Glass Cannon or a threadbare Cargo Sack, or something slightly more balanced. I think a lot of players would enjoy coming up with design ideas and trying them out.

Frontier wont impliment custom ship models in the game, and if they do it wont be until they make a new incarnation of elite dangerous.

all the ships in the game are built on assembly lines by manufacturing companies, just like cars are today.

Plus if players made their own ship models frontier would have to re-engineer the physics engine to allow for it.

Frontier isnt even done modeling the interiors of the current ships yet and they still have more ships yet to come.

 

[VR CMDR Novindus]

Frontier wont impliment custom ship models in the game, and if they do it wont be until they make a new incarnation of elite dangerous.

I don't know how confidently anyone can speak for Frontier, though I grant it's not a feature they're very likely to approve for development.

all the ships in the game are built on assembly lines by manufacturing companies, just like cars are today.

There is such a thing as a kit car, which is not dissimilar to what I'm suggesting. But what I propose is actually still something that would be done by a manufacturing company on an assembly line, but with a much larger range of assembly options. It's a build on request, similar to how you might order and select options for a custom built PC, except with a ship.

Plus if players made their own ship models frontier would have to re-engineer the physics engine to allow for it.

What aspect of the physics engine would need to change? There'd be a box limit for each ship size, and players would just be selecting modifiers and stats that the engine already knows how to factor in.
Thruster and hardpoint placement options would be preconfigured for the existing hull or modular attachment options. In any case, this is a feature suggestion / change request, so a modification to the physics engine would be part of that, if actually required.

Frontier isnt even done modeling the interiors of the current ships yet and they still have more ships yet to come.

This would speak to how soon Frontier would implement such a feature if they approved it, which is not so relevant to the merits of the suggestion itself.

 

[Lestat]

I have to agree with Azmuth Divarchchron. I don't see Frontier doing this idea. They might do this on a base design because they can start out fresh and use ideas from Subnatica and Minecraft.

 

[VR CMDR Novindus]

I have to agree with Azmuth Divarchchron. I don't see Frontier doing this idea. They might do this on a base design because they can start out fresh and use ideas from Subnatica and Minecraft.

Possibly, but who can say with any real accuracy other than the developers at Frontier?

The core physics for this feature already exist, and adding graphics assets that attach to each other in a similar manner to ship kits is also already a developed feature that could be geared to work with the ship building.
So, I don't think the technical requirements would be a dissuading argument for the developers, such that they would only call this feasible in a fresh new game build.

But none of that really concerns me. I don't make suggestions subject to speculation about what Frontier will and will not do, or can and cannot do.
I put forward a suggestion if I think it would either enhance the game, create an enjoyable experience for players, or be an elegant solution to an existing problem.
I'll leave it to Frontier to figure what is feasible for them, and what is desirable for them.

 

[Misty_Dark]

Possibly, but who can say with any real accuracy other than the developers at Frontier?

The core physics for this feature already exist, and adding graphics assets that attach to each other in a similar manner to ship kits is also already a developed feature that could be geared to work with the ship building.
So, I don't think the technical requirements would be a dissuading argument for the developers, such that they would only call this feasible in a fresh new game build.

But none of that really concerns me. I don't make suggestions subject to speculation about what Frontier will and will not do, or can and cannot do.
I put forward a suggestion if I think it would either enhance the game, create an enjoyable experience for players, or be an elegant solution to an existing problem.
I'll leave it to Frontier to figure what is feasible for them, and what is desirable for them.

I was hoping for this kind of feature, and then FDev introduced ship kits... and that sort of doomed such stuff.
I was thinking how cool would it now have been if engineered parts altered the appearance of your ship, instead of using ship kits...


Since they have added ship kits, that creates an issue, because they made ship kits cosmetic only, that you buy in the store. So FDev have at the moment, opted for cosmetic to be bought in the store. Now how would ship kits and paint jobs fit in with your idea here?






and you suggested exploration build, sounds just like another I want longer jump range option. What you explained there is just what we are doing... the only difference is that you want to be able to put a bigger FSD in...

 

[Lestat]

I was hoping for this kind of feature, and then FDev introduced ship kits... and that sort of doomed such stuff.
I was thinking how cool would it now have been if engineered parts altered the appearance of your ship, instead of using ship kits...

Since they have added ship kits, that creates an issue, because they made ship kits cosmetic only, that you buy in the store. So FDev have at the moment, opted for cosmetic to be bought in the store. Now how would ship kits and paint jobs fit in with your idea here?

I see your point. I could see a sales drop of Cosmetic and paint jobs if ships could be built by the user and made to look different.

and you suggested exploration build, sounds just like another I want longer jump range option. What you explained there is just what we are doing... the only difference is that you want to be able to put a bigger FSD in...

Ahh You found the I win feature. I could see it now. Asp Explorer with the largest FSD My guess 130 ly Jump range. I have to say no. We don't need an I win feature.

 

[VR CMDR Novindus]

I was hoping for this kind of feature, and then FDev introduced ship kits... and that sort of doomed such stuff.
I was thinking how cool would it now have been if engineered parts altered the appearance of your ship, instead of using ship kits...


Since they have added ship kits, that creates an issue, because they made ship kits cosmetic only, that you buy in the store. So FDev have at the moment, opted for cosmetic to be bought in the store. Now how would ship kits and paint jobs fit in with your idea here?

Custom designed ships will be selecting from a limited array of basic hulls and attachable basic modules, or else just a set of ready ship designs with no customisation. No in-game ship kits, and no in-game paint job options apart from the default.
Whichever way they choose to go, store bought kits and paint jobs could still be created for the custom ships, whether semi-modular or ready designs.

and you suggested exploration build, sounds just like another I want longer jump range option. What you explained there is just what we are doing... the only difference is that you want to be able to put a bigger FSD in...

It's about choice and consequence. I probably exaggerated at 120ly, but even were that the case, you'd be sacrificing a lot to get it. It would be one of the worst ships in the game, and a one-trick pony that would crumble at the sight of any trouble, and make you more familiar with the Rebuy screen than with Starport Services, not to mention the trouble it would give you with thermal issues and simply steering and landing it, and don't even think about approaching high gravity planets.

 

[Ethaidan]

We're already pretty spoilt for choice - dozens of ships, even more dozens of modules & weapons, engineering, tech brokers, guardian modules...

I'd much rather they spent development time on game stability/bugs, fleshing out content, finishing the next big update...

 

[VR CMDR Novindus]

I see your point. I could see a sales drop of Cosmetic and paint jobs if ships could be built by the user and made to look different.

Addressed in my reply to Misty_Dark above.

Ahh You found the I win feature. I could see it now. Asp Explorer with the largest FSD My guess 130 ly Jump range. I have to say no. We don't need an I win feature.

Oh yes, the "Easy mode", or "I win" trope. It's gotten to the point where your response to any given issue or proposal is pretty well known without you saying it.

Firstly, my suggestion did not include the customisation of existing ships, so Asp Explorer with 130ly range is not in the cards.

Secondly, lol. The "I win" feature?? With a hull made of potato crisps, shields made of static electricity, the thermal efficiency of molten lava, the manoeuvrability of a snail perched on a sloth, the power capacity of a CR2032 coin battery, enough life support for two breaths of air, minimal optional internals, and no firepower or utilities, you'll be on your way to instant fun win happy land in no time. -_-

 

[VR CMDR Novindus]

We're already pretty spoilt for choice - dozens of ships, even more dozens of modules & weapons, engineering, tech brokers, guardian modules...

I'd much rather they spent development time on game stability/bugs, fleshing out content, finishing the next big update...

There are a lot of options, but that has no bearing on how much fun this would be for players.

We all have our priorities for what we'd like to see first, but in general, I think it's more productive to evaluate feature suggestions by their own merits, and not in comparison to competing features.
Frontier will ultimately decide the priorities of what it approves.

 

[Misty_Dark]

There are a lot of options, but that has no bearing on how much fun this would be for players.

We all have our priorities for what we'd like to see first, but in general, I think it's more productive to evaluate feature suggestions by their own merits, and not in comparison to competing features.
Frontier will ultimately decide the priorities of what it approves.

But that makes no sense.

if you are suggesting a "new" feature, that is competing with existing features and offers more of less the same functions, of course it makes sense to compare these.

There is a saying "Reinventing the wheel" that covers why comparison to existing features makes sense.



Your continuation on using FDev is ultimately deciding about this as a justification for you to ignore the opposing views on this suggestion does not move this discussion forward, you did post this suggestion in a open forum, where anyone can reply to your suggestion, regardless if they like or oppose the suggestion, and all those responses are also vital to emphasize the strong points and weaknesses of the suggestion, just as the suggestion in itself. So your repeatedly trying to ignore the other comments here, is actually hurting your stance, as it comes out as a desperate move trying to hide weaknesses.

 

[VR CMDR Novindus]

But that makes no sense.

if you are suggesting a "new" feature, that is competing with existing features and offers more of less the same functions, of course it makes sense to compare these.

There is a saying "Reinventing the wheel" that covers why comparison to existing features makes sense.

You're being unnecessarily captious. The context was, as quoted "We all have our priorities for what we'd like to see first", meaning that by "competing features" I wasn't referring to existing features in the game, but rather other suggested or anticipated features that people would rather see implemented first. Lestat for example appears to be on a crusade to reject any suggestion that he fears would use up Frontier resources that would be better spent on Space Legs, in his opinion.

Your continuation on using FDev is ultimately deciding about this as a justification for you to ignore the opposing views on this suggestion does not move this discussion forward, you did post this suggestion in a open forum, where anyone can reply to your suggestion, regardless if they like or oppose the suggestion, and all those responses are also vital to emphasize the strong points and weaknesses of the suggestion, just as the suggestion in itself. So your repeatedly trying to ignore the other comments here, is actually hurting your stance, as it comes out as a desperate move trying to hide weaknesses.

This too is based on a misapprehension. Speculation about whether Frontier can or cannot do a thing, or will or will not do a thing, does not point out any weakness in a given suggestion, as it doesn't relate to the specifics of that suggestion, and is only a subjective statement about Frontier's vision and priorities, which cannot be confirmed. It is therefore not a criticism of the suggestion, and if anything, is just a lazy way to object to a suggestion you don't like without taking the time to address the pros and cons of it in your post.

Further, I've ignored none of the comments. I've specifically called out every attempt at conjecture on Frontier's behalf as a futile effort, because I'm actually looking for criticism of my suggestion. I've posted in an open forum precisely because I want to see what issues people may find with it so that I can make adjustments to improve it, or what suggestions people can put forward to improve on it themselves, and none of that is helped by people uselessly speculating about whether or not Frontier will do it.

 

[Cmdr. Numa]

Triggers a faint memory of FE2 and FFE, where internal space was one big pool, which you could allocate to modules as you saw fit, while maintaining at least enough space for fuel. Implementing that in ED would essentially make it a different game. Not happening, especially not with spacelegs probably on the agenda.

 

[VR CMDR Novindus]

Triggers a faint memory of FE2 and FFE, where internal space was one big pool, which you could allocate to modules as you saw fit, while maintaining at least enough space for fuel. Implementing that in ED would essentially make it a different game. Not happening, especially not with spacelegs probably on the agenda.

Do you think it would be fun or useful to have this feature in the game?
What potential problems with the gameplay aspects of the feature do you perceive, if any?
Can you think of any solutions or mitigations for those problems?
Can you think of any way to improve the suggestion?

That method of approaching proposals put forward by players I think is the most positive and productive.

Any suggestion of course has the potential to make ED a different game, some to much higher degrees than others. Pointing this out without accompanying it with an opinion on whether or not the game would be enhanced or become more enjoyable with this feature doesn't add productively to the discussion. Regarding ship crafting, you'd still be flying ships that work off the same rules and restrictions, so I don't think it would be a fundamental change, or something that would turn ED into another game.

Lastly, speculating about whether or not Frontier will implement a proposed feature is also not very useful, as firstly, no one outside of Frontier really knows, and secondly, it doesn't speak to the merits of or issues with the suggestion.

 

[Misty_Dark]

You're being unnecessarily captious. The context was, as quoted "We all have our priorities for what we'd like to see first", meaning that by "competing features" I wasn't referring to existing features in the game, but rather other suggested or anticipated features that people would rather see implemented first. Lestat for example appears to be on a crusade to reject any suggestion that he fears would use up Frontier resources that would be better spent on Space Legs, in his opinion.



This too is based on a misapprehension. Speculation about whether Frontier can or cannot do a thing, or will or will not do a thing, does not point out any weakness in a given suggestion, as it doesn't relate to the specifics of that suggestion, and is only a subjective statement about Frontier's vision and priorities, which cannot be confirmed. It is therefore not a criticism of the suggestion, and if anything, is just a lazy way to object to a suggestion you don't like without taking the time to address the pros and cons of it in your post.

Further, I've ignored none of the comments. I've specifically called out every attempt at conjecture on Frontier's behalf as a futile effort, because I'm actually looking for criticism of my suggestion. I've posted in an open forum precisely because I want to see what issues people may find with it so that I can make adjustments to improve it, or what suggestions people can put forward to improve on it themselves, and none of that is helped by people uselessly speculating about whether or not Frontier will do it.

Now you are being even more dishonest ... And you are still suggesting something that is competing with an EXISTING GAME FEATURE here!

 

[VR CMDR Novindus]

Now you are being even more dishonest ... And you are still suggesting something that is competing with an EXISTING GAME FEATURE here!

I think you’d be better served by re-reading the chain of responses rather than making unqualified accusations, as you continue to operate out of context.

My objection to people evaluating suggestions by stating their preference on which other changes they’d like to see implemented in the game first was in response to Ethaidan’s comment:

“I'd much rather they spent development time on game stability/bugs, fleshing out content, finishing the next big update...”

I did not dispute the fact that the feature I’m suggesting competes with existing ships, though I provided mitigation that I believe would prevent the obsolescence of those ships, and make a choice for either standard or custom models viable for different requirements. My reply to Ethaidan’s statement about plenty of options already existing in the game was to ask him to consider whether the addition of custom ships would create an enjoyable experience for players. I did not suggest that comparing against similar features already in the game was an invalid consideration, which is evident from the comparison I made myself in my original post when explaining the choice that would be created.

It’s becoming a trend in our discussions for me to have to clarify distinctions and references for you that you fail to make the effort to more carefully discern for yourself. It’s laborious.

 

[Reever]

I would like to know how i engineer a ship to go more than 30 ly let alone the light lyears someone posted in a different thread
In fully stripped builds, with full engineering, here's the max a ship can currently do:

Anaconda - 72Ly
DBX - 64Ly
Asp X - 60Ly
Hauler - 55Ly
Orca - 50Ly
Dolphin - 48Ly
Type-6 - 49Ly
iCourier - 44Ly
Adder - 42Ly
Cobra MkIII - 42Ly
iClipper - 40Ly
Python - 39Ly
Sidewinder - 36Ly

I mean I know stuff for engineers etc, but I can never find the things I actually need, like the stuff when you target a ship and you get datamined wake exceptions etc. I mean it would take years to get the amount I actually need. So how do i get to the distant worlds sruff if i cant engineer my ship to the max.

 

[space voyager]

Ship, module, weapon crafting all leave a lot to be desired. Engineers did bring some of that but by no means what it could be. Finding specialized components, either in battle, uss or in the depths of space and integrating them into ships or weapons could spice things up. Also give some meaning to cargo racks in battle and exploration ships.