PvP PvP Corvette?

Sorry to interfere, but there are several but in this reasoning.

Large ships are many large slots for weapons and a large distributor. Those. supposedly you can put a big DPS. But unfortunately the mechanics are such that this can only be used with kinetics, all residual weapons will very quickly empty energy and overheat the ship.

I hope I clearly wrote.
 
A fully engineered and well built corvette should have at least 8000 effective (after resistances) hit points (this would be a general purpose corvette with biweaves and conveniences like fuel scoop and FSD booster and maybe a utility scanner or two). The dedicated PvP build Sir Ganksalot's posted had over 20,000 effective hitpoints including 6k raw/10k effective just on the hull.

It's basically an ungankable ship if built and flown right. The only possible threat is a wing that can drop your shield and then snipe your PP/FSD/Thrusters with rails.

Even if a wing of 4 hits you with reverb torps and a grom you should be able to tank enough damage via hull to high-wake out. Make sure your powerplant is armored (can even consider an armored FSD/thrusters if very concerned about gankers). And if they didn't bring another vette, t-10, or cutter you you can even just low wake (then drop immediately and high wake). You also really shouldn't be getting hit with torps, they are slow and can be avoided long enough to wake. Mines are even easier to avoid.

Another nice thing about a vette is that it handles in supercruise like a medium ship. This will help you keep gankers off your tail longer in supercruise, especially the ones in cutters. Avoiding ganking starts the moment you enter any instance. You should be checking in supercruise if there are wings and what their loadouts are. If it looks dangerous, wake away before they can even pull you. But if you are built well enough, you'll be able to survive even if they pull you.

My ship has 6000 shields and protection for all types of damage 50.
Case 7500 and all protection under 45. Yes, I use armored power, but in this case I have to use all the kinetic weapons, otherwise I will not have enough energy :(

Thank.

Yes, I survive in such interceptions, but it is difficult to call this battle a rather fast escape. Why should my large and well-protected ship quickly run away from 2-3x Krain MK-2?
Yes, I agree to retreat, but after a long battle.

Excuse me.
 
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Well considering I've never lost to a medium in my all fixed Vette I'd say all it takes is practice. Like I said, if you keep crutching on gimballs you're never gonna get any better.

I can't imagine losing to a single medium in my fixed vette either and as far from ideal as I find all fixed MCs on a vette for fighting mediums, such a loadout wouldn't change much other than delay the inevitable. The vette is far too durable and has too much firepower for almost any pilot in any medium to best, provided the vette is flown with a certain degree of competence that I do believe I've reached.

However, I didn't build a vette to fight only one medium at a time. I built one to put up a decent fight against wings of them...don't always win of course, but I like to be able to hang around long enough for everyone to have a bit of fun and my opponents to know they've been in a fight.

I'm not sure what you're talking about regarding gimbals. There are no gimbaled weapons on my standard PvP vette loadout and there haven't been in about two years. However, I am considering them again, given how TLB has been changed.

Sorry, but if it's not a secret, I would like to understand the new tactics. When I fly to the Corvette and they intercept me, and if it’s just a fight, then you can assess the situation and if you don’t have enough strength to fly away.
But what to do if there are several griffers and after the evaluation of the enemy, you barely manage to fly away: (

I have no secrets as a player. Secrets are fragile things, not to be relied on. I want my core build strategies and piloting tactics to be applicable even if the opposition knows them intimately.

Anyway, regarding mines, it depends on how many ships their are and what they have, but in situations where it's only a Cobra CMDR or two, I've simply stepped up the aggression. Knowing that the shield gen will eventually collapse if the miners are competent enough, I press the attack sooner.

Against torpedoes, I now try to bait the opponent into launching them early, at a range I know I can evade them on the first pass, after which I try to shoot down, or guide enough of them into collisions with other objects (rocks, other ships, my own SLFs, etc) until there are too few remaining to pose a threat.

Past a critical threshold (in numbers, ability, or a combination of both), I just cut my losses and run. It's easy to lose one's self in the moment and before you know it find that a 2v1 is now a 5v1, but I've gotten better at leaving before I'm overwhelmed...and better at not leaving too soon.

Everything happens very quickly, and you do not have time to think and apply any tactics: (

Situational awareness, quickly assessing the opposition, and learning how to make accurate inferences based on limited information, are all tactical skills that one can develop.

Identify threats and categorize them by how quickly they can force you to disengage. Reverb torpedoes are pretty high on that list, as are cascade rails (if you have SCBs). If nothing can cripple your ship immediately, it's often wise to drive off the softest opponent rather than going after the strongest because the firepower available to most combat vessels has a much narrower spread than how long they can hang in a battle. Even a novice pilot in a shoddily built FDL can lay into a big and do very nearly as much damage as an expert, if they are ignored, but that novice pilot is not going to hold up to incoming fire nearly so well.

Anyway, you'll figure things out, it will just take some trial and error.

Yes, I use armored power, but in this case I have to use all the kinetic weapons, otherwise I will not have enough energy

It's possible to power more power hungry weapons while retaining that armored PP, but there will be some trade-offs required.

Why should my large and well-protected ship quickly run away from 2-3x Krain MK-2?

The reality is that each of those Kraits is not far off your own firepower and at least one of them is likely be able to leverage most of it unopposed. They are also much faster than a vette and thus able to dictate the engagement range, withdrawing when they need to, while their wing takes their place.

Unless there is a major skill/experience discrepancy in your favor, two medium combat vessels is a serious threat to a vette, and three almost insurmountable.
 
Wow.
That's pretty off target in light of the amazing amount of knowledge and insight Morbad adds to this subforum.
I rate most of his build and strategy posts as almost must reads.
Been around a long time and seen the cream repeatedly rise in this game.
They all get there following good advice and then trying to implement or counter these strategies.
I learn plenty from this but nothing from derision.

I've seen lots of morbads videos but he mostly uses gimballs in a lot of them so there's nothing for me to learn from. I'm not saying he's bad either, but I think a lot of people get lazy and just stay with gimballs and I think it's wrong. Stop crutching on gimballs, get good with fixed and then go back to gimballs if you think it's more effective.

And I'm sorry, just because someone posts on the forums a lot doesn't mean they are right and everything they say as gospel.

Morbad, no offense homie, you do great things for the community and I've been reading your posts for a long time but I just don't agree with you on having noobs use gimballs. They crutch too much and never get gud with fixed.
 
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I can't imagine losing to a single medium in my fixed vette either and as far from ideal as I find all fixed MCs on a vette for fighting mediums, such a loadout wouldn't change much other than delay the inevitable. The vette is far too durable and has too much firepower for almost any pilot in any medium to best, provided the vette is flown with a certain degree of competence that I do believe I've reached.

However, I didn't build a vette to fight only one medium at a time. I built one to put up a decent fight against wings of them...don't always win of course, but I like to be able to hang around long enough for everyone to have a bit of fun and my opponents to know they've been in a fight.

I'm not sure what you're talking about regarding gimbals. There are no gimbaled weapons on my standard PvP vette loadout and there haven't been in about two years. However, I am considering them again, given how TLB has been changed.



I have no secrets as a player. Secrets are fragile things, not to be relied on. I want my core build strategies and piloting tactics to be applicable even if the opposition knows them intimately.

Anyway, regarding mines, it depends on how many ships their are and what they have, but in situations where it's only a Cobra CMDR or two, I've simply stepped up the aggression. Knowing that the shield gen will eventually collapse if the miners are competent enough, I press the attack sooner.

Against torpedoes, I now try to bait the opponent into launching them early, at a range I know I can evade them on the first pass, after which I try to shoot down, or guide enough of them into collisions with other objects (rocks, other ships, my own SLFs, etc) until there are too few remaining to pose a threat.

Past a critical threshold (in numbers, ability, or a combination of both), I just cut my losses and run. It's easy to lose one's self in the moment and before you know it find that a 2v1 is now a 5v1, but I've gotten better at leaving before I'm overwhelmed...and better at not leaving too soon.



Situational awareness, quickly assessing the opposition, and learning how to make accurate inferences based on limited information, are all tactical skills that one can develop.

Identify threats and categorize them by how quickly they can force you to disengage. Reverb torpedoes are pretty high on that list, as are cascade rails (if you have SCBs). If nothing can cripple your ship immediately, it's often wise to drive off the softest opponent rather than going after the strongest because the firepower available to most combat vessels has a much narrower spread than how long they can hang in a battle. Even a novice pilot in a shoddily built FDL can lay into a big and do very nearly as much damage as an expert, if they are ignored, but that novice pilot is not going to hold up to incoming fire nearly so well.

Anyway, you'll figure things out, it will just take some trial and error.



It's possible to power more power hungry weapons while retaining that armored PP, but there will be some trade-offs required.



The reality is that each of those Kraits is not far off your own firepower and at least one of them is likely be able to leverage most of it unopposed. They are also much faster than a vette and thus able to dictate the engagement range, withdrawing when they need to, while their wing takes their place.

Unless there is a major skill/experience discrepancy in your favor, two medium combat vessels is a serious threat to a vette, and three almost insurmountable.

I swear, every vid I've ever seen from you, you're using gimballs, that's why I quit watching your vids a while ago. I mean no offense.
Please link a vid of you not using gimballs.

Also, I thought we're talking about a noob set up for a Vette, not your personal setup?
 
My ship has 6000 shields and protection for all types of damage 50.
Case 7500 and all protection under 45. Yes, I use armored power, but in this case I have to use all the kinetic weapons, otherwise I will not have enough energy :(

Thank.

Yes, I survive in such interceptions, but it is difficult to call this battle a rather fast escape. Why should my large and well-protected ship quickly run away from 2-3x Krain MK-2?
Yes, I agree to retreat, but after a long battle.

Excuse me.

"A fully engineered and well built corvette should have at least 8000 effective (after resistances)"

Define "well built" because your sentence there makes no sense.
In order to have decent resistences (im assuming you mean 50, 50, 50) youll need some resistence boosters..which dont give that much MJ..and "by well built" i assume you mean that youl haave a heat sink or two..because you know..well built implies ballance..SCBs generate loads of heat..players using thermal weapons, your own weapons generating heat, etc..and as you know..heat sinks give zero MJ.

In short..show me a corvette with 50 resistence across the board (thermal, explosive, kinetcic,) has at least ONE heat sink and has 8000 Mj shields.
 
I would love to but all my vids are of me in mediums and I cannot for life of me figure out how to post vids on forums.

HNkcDLB.jpg
 
I've seen lots of morbads videos but he mostly uses gimballs in a lot of them so there's nothing for me to learn from. I'm not saying he's bad either, but I think a lot of people get lazy and just stay with gimballs and I think it's wrong. Stop crutching on gimballs, get good with fixed and then go back to gimballs if you think it's more effective.

And I'm sorry, just because someone posts on the forums a lot doesn't mean they are right and everything they say as gospel.

Morbad, no offense homie, you do great things for the community and I've been reading your posts for a long time but I just don't agree with you on having noobs use gimballs. They crutch too much and never get gud with fixed.

I wouldn't disagree with any of your points except for the "crutch" aspect of using solid cheese counters.
Once a player does get good with fixed it's all sh*ts and giggles anyway.
There are a small hand full of posters on this forum that never fail to teach some of the more strategic elements of the game.
Counterpoint from people like yourself only help the education when the topics get discussed by those with enough ability to wring the concepts out.,
But only if the topic doesn't derail into jibes like crutches.
 
Morbad, no offense homie, you do great things for the community and I've been reading your posts for a long time but I just don't agree with you on having noobs use gimballs. They crutch too much and never get gud with fixed.

I've always advocated people learn how to aim before picking up gimbals and I've never advocated their use as a crutch. Maybe I'm old fashioned but I still tend to assume that if someone has a Corvette, that they also have experience, though I should probably know better at this point.

That said, gimbaled mounts have some major advantages in some situations, and would, even if they weren't auto aiming (indeed, I'd love to be able to aim my gimbaled or turreted weapons myself, while retaining control over the flight of the ship). In this particular scenario (a corvette fighting ships considerably more agile than itself) the expanded arc of fire of gimbaled MCs will typically be more advantageous than the increased damage output of fixed ones, even in the presence of anti-gimbal counters like chaff and dispersal.

I swear, every vid I've ever seen from you, you're using gimballs, that's why I quit watching your vids a while ago. I mean no offense.
Please link a vid of you not using gimballs.

There haven't been any gimbals on my PvP vette since 2.2 (though it's nearly always had turrets in the widely spaced hardpoints) or my PvP Viper, Vulture, or Krait, ever.

A very small sample, in no particular order:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeo4TLubk_8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPQP17b3_S8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUgbK_S0lQU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33mKFGZCTJ4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lz_0Amkckk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVsDL9XIrkc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYq2gS06w84
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cZrIy5gH3A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FIdE9nhokE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBmhBffwo2Q

My current FDL and Mamba are relatively gimbal heavy, but they would be no matter how good my aim was, because aim has never been the point...wider firing arcs and the ability for weapons of widely varying projectile velocities to achieve simultaneous convergance is.

Also, I thought we're talking about a noob set up for a Vette, not your personal setup?

I was talking about loadouts I considered broadly viable for a PvP vette's huge hardpoints.

This would include, but not necessarily be limited to, fixed beam lasers or gimbaled MCs for fighting multiple medium ships and fixed MCs or PAs for dueling other large ships.
 
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Morbad, no offense homie, you do great things for the community and I've been reading your posts for a long time but I just don't agree with you on having noobs use gimballs. They crutch too much and never get gud with fixed.


Never say never. :)

We all have to start somewhere. And losing fights because of lower damage capability is excellent incentive to learn fixed.

I know very well that the meta is plasma and rails and am in the process of bettering my aim with them. But until my aim is actually viable, I will use fixed multicannons. You may view this as a "crutch", but I view this as a "temporary compromise." The stigma of gimballed and turrets is so great in PvP that one would have to be in a near vegetative state to not think thrice about using them. If they are being used, it may be very well due to ignorance, but more than likely other factors are involved.

And of course you know that PvP is not only about damage, but skill. There is a video somewhere of Commander Truesilver taking down everyone, including plasma and rail setups with his all gimballed laser ship. Another PvP taboo. I will link it when I find it. It is a beautiful and inspiring thing to see. I weep thinking about it. This is when PvP in Elite is so glorious, when a pilot is able to defy what is on pencil and paper. This is Art.

Never say never. :)

o7

edit: Link below


https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...ed-ship-1v1-s-and-win-20-0-!-quot-)?p=5347696

I realize this is not for vettes, but I just wanted to highlight that gimballs are viable in PvP.
 
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It's clear. Thanks for answers.

The thing that ticks me off (and this may be slightly off topic) is the amount of missunderstanding surrounding the Corvette and the gerneral consenus that it takes no skill to fly.
The Corvette is a support ship. Its role is to dish out AND take huge amonts of punishement while the rest of your wing goes about their tactics.

Its not desinged to take on 2 or 3 mediums alone.
Its not designed to dominate 1 v 1 battles.

Its a fantastic ship for what it does when its done right.
(sorry if i come across a bit peeved)
 
Yes, I survive in such interceptions, but it is difficult to call this battle a rather fast escape. Why should my large and well-protected ship quickly run away from 2-3x Krain MK-2?
Yes, I agree to retreat, but after a long battle.

Well that's a bit of a problem - somewhat unreasonable expectations. The advantage of two ships is more than double that of one, especially if they are faster and can dictate range. Consider:

- Pip mgmt becomes much harder. In a 1v1, it's pretty clear when to put 4 pips to sys and when you can spare for eng/wep. However when facing two ships, it's quite likely one will be applying fire at you all the time. So you are left with a much worse choice of what's the "least bad" time to sacrifice 4 sys pips and endure higher damage, or to instead fly in a slower, lower firepower manner.

- Torps coming from 2 directions harder to evade than 1 (although still doable)

- One ship can be stealth, making it very hard to keep track of them

- etc. With 3 or 4 ships it grows even worse

Unless you've got some certainty that you're a better pilot - or unless you're just willing to take chances for fun - it's generally best to wake out against higher odds. The certainty would come from prior experience with the commanders in question, examination of their ship/loadout choices, or possibly reputation of their wing.

There's nothing wrong with playing it safe, especially if you've prioritized survival (it's also perfectly valid just to fight everything you encounter, and eat some rebuys - credits are easy to come buy and there's no shame in a defeat especially if you learn from it).
 
Sorry if I confused someone.

I am not a PVP player at all in the sense that it is not interesting for me to hang in the system and scan other players, and if something happens to attack him, I do not see the point. (if the player is not currently in a hostile force)

I am a loner player, playing an open game and performing missions of the game, or playing power play.

For many years I played a solo game, accumulated capital, opened engineers, engineer all my ships, and decided to start an open-ended game.

Therefore, for me, it is not a victory in pvp combat that is important, but an effective protection against any gankers and so that you can control the situation well, at least against 2 medium-sized ships.

Thank.

P.S. The Corvette is my favorite ship for flying, so I’m happy to read this topic to gain experience at various encounters with gankers.
 
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I've always advocated people learn how to aim before picking up gimbals and I've never advocated their use as a crutch. Maybe I'm old fashioned but I still tend to assume that if someone has a Corvette, that they also have experience, though I should probably know better at this point.

That said, gimbaled mounts have some major advantages in some situations, and would, even if they weren't auto aiming (indeed, I'd love to be able to aim my gimbaled or turreted weapons myself, while retaining control over the flight of the ship). In this particular scenario (a corvette fighting ships considerably more agile than itself) the expanded arc of fire of gimbaled MCs will typically be more advantageous than the increased damage output of fixed ones, even in the presence of anti-gimbal counters like chaff and dispersal.



There haven't been any gimbals on my PvP vette since 2.2 (though it's nearly always had turrets in the widely spaced hardpoints) or my PvP Viper, Vulture, or Krait, ever.

A very small sample, in no particular order:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeo4TLubk_8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPQP17b3_S8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUgbK_S0lQU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33mKFGZCTJ4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lz_0Amkckk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVsDL9XIrkc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYq2gS06w84
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cZrIy5gH3A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FIdE9nhokE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBmhBffwo2Q

My current FDL and Mamba are relatively gimbal heavy, but they would be no matter how good my aim was, because aim has never been the point...wider firing arcs and the ability for weapons of widely varying projectile velocities to achieve simultaneous convergance is.



I was talking about loadouts I considered broadly viable for a PvP vette's huge hardpoints.

This would include, but not necessarily be limited to, fixed beam lasers or gimbaled MCs for fighting multiple medium ships and fixed MCs or PAs for dueling other large ships.

I stand corrected Morbad o7. I must have watched a few vids of you using gimballs then just assumed that all you use.

I still think all fixed multis is the best load out for the Vette though and gimbaled weapons are a crutch. I just don't like them and in my opinion their damage output should be nerfed even more.

[/B]
Never say never. :)

We all have to start somewhere. And losing fights because of lower damage capability is excellent incentive to learn fixed.

I know very well that the meta is plasma and rails and am in the process of bettering my aim with them. But until my aim is actually viable, I will use fixed multicannons. You may view this as a "crutch", but I view this as a "temporary compromise." The stigma of gimballed and turrets is so great in PvP that one would have to be in a near vegetative state to not think thrice about using them. If they are being used, it may be very well due to ignorance, but more than likely other factors are involved.

And of course you know that PvP is not only about damage, but skill. There is a video somewhere of Commander Truesilver taking down everyone, including plasma and rail setups with his all gimballed laser ship. Another PvP taboo. I will link it when I find it. It is a beautiful and inspiring thing to see. I weep thinking about it. This is when PvP in Elite is so glorious, when a pilot is able to defy what is on pencil and paper. This is Art.

Never say never. :)

o7

edit: Link below


https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...ed-ship-1v1-s-and-win-20-0-!-quot-)?p=5347696

I realize this is not for vettes, but I just wanted to highlight that gimballs are viable in PvP.

Did you mean to say you use gimballs? Cause you said you use fixed multis and then said I would think thats a crutch.
I don't consider using any kind of fixed weapon to be a crutch.
 
Did you mean to say you use gimballs? Cause you said you use fixed multis and then said I would think thats a crutch. I don't consider using any kind of fixed weapon to be a crutch.

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I actually do use gimballed multis, knowing fully well how lame the damage is, simply because I can't currently stand grinding for materials for fixed. I prefer and do use fixed multis whenever possible.

However, what I really should be using are plasmas and rails on my FDL. But I don't because my aim sucks. So I myself, not you, think of the multis as a temporary crutch.

What do you think of Commander Truesilver's video, if you have watched it?

o7
 
Having seen a lot of videos from Morbad, I don’t quite understand. What is the point of watering everyone from a MC turret class 2? Maybe there is some necessary special effect? Although I thought at least one turret should have an effect on corrosion, but nevertheless almost always water from 2x.

Thank.
 
its date : 05/04/2017, 3:22 PM (Edited. 06/04/2017 at 7:21 PM) :(

Truesilver's point is that MC gimbals are a cheese build. Using the aimbot in all its forms (also Packhounds) is consider cheese. He can win all day long with his cheese build vs PA/rails.
 
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