Credits now meaningless? Might as well remove? Discuss

[Ambrosius Dalfinger]

I agree with the OP, Credits are too easy to earn. Progress in the game is much too fast. As a consequence they had to implement an alternative currency (my beloved 'materials').

IMHO materials should be also sold by material traders for a lot of credits, and it should be not sure if a higher level mat (G4,G5) is available at a certain trader. And they should be expensive. Nothing else should be changed. Maybe the material traders should also buy mats, but at very low prices. This way everybody who enjoys the material search can continue to do it, and others like me can buy the materials.

Materials are an alternative currency as it is now, you cannot buy them, and you do not loose them if your ship is destroyed. This is quite illogical but necessary. Changes would not hurt here...

Also flying (not owning!) a huge ship should be much more expensive! If somebody has (exaggerated) billions of credits and 3 Anacondas, and at this time flies for some reason a Viper or an Eagle, he would pay small sums only, but as soon as he flies the Anaconda, this would be much higher. This is actually implemented via 'Wear and Tear', Advanced Maintenance - it is only much too cheap. In IRL - look up what a Heli hour costs, subtract pilots fee and fuel - what remains are the maintenance costs, and they are quite high. This too would be a money sink, and it would it make much harder to own a huge ship after one week.

Also, storing ships should be prized. Stuffing stations with armadas of large ships for free?! Hello?!

 

[Zeeman]

I agree with the OP, Credits are too easy to earn. Progress in the game is much too fast. As a consequence they had to implement an alternative currency (my beloved 'materials').

IMHO materials should be also sold by material traders for a lot of credits, and it should be not sure if a higher level mat (G4,G5) is available at a certain trader. And they should be expensive. Nothing else should be changed. Maybe the material traders should also buy mats, but at very low prices. This way everybody who enjoys the material search can continue to do it, and others like me can buy the materials.

Materials are an alternative currency as it is now, you cannot buy them, and you do not loose them if your ship is destroyed. This is quite illogical but necessary. Changes would not hurt here...

Also flying (not owning!) a huge ship should be much more expensive! If somebody has (exaggerated) billions of credits and 3 Anacondas, and at this time flies for some reason a Viper or an Eagle, he would pay small sums only, but as soon as he flies the Anaconda, this would be much higher. This is actually implemented via 'Wear and Tear', Advanced Maintenance - it is only much too cheap. In IRL - look up what a Heli hour costs, subtract pilots fee and fuel - what remains are the maintenance costs, and they are quite high. This too would be a money sink, and it would it make much harder to own a huge ship after one week.

This used to be a thing. Repairing large ships (especially integrity) used to be very expensive. Then a bunch of sooks cried, and FD felt sorry for them, because the river they cried was so deep, and here we are.

Z...

 

[Ambrosius Dalfinger]

This used to be a thing. Repairing large ships (especially integrity) used to be very expensive. Then a bunch of sooks cried, and FD felt sorry for them, because the river they cried was so deep, and here we are.

Z...

Do we really know for sure FD actually reacts to this kind of complaints? Maybe it just looks like it and complaining about complaining based on conjecture is the same as complaining.

 

[ifthisworks]

No.

 

[Ambroza]

Do we really know for sure FD actually reacts to this kind of complaints? Maybe it just looks like it and complaining about complaining based on conjecture is the same as complaining.

Yes, because they sometimes explicitly state that certain changes were made due to feedback (which, in many cases, is a a polite word for complaints)

 

[Han Zulu]

I know this is going to be controvertial, but i just don't see the point of credits any more. Players can go from sidewinder to anaconda in a week. Money is so easy to make, rebuys are a joke.

It's true, you can do it, but you can also choose not to. I have a new account and after a couple of weeks, I'm still at just under 30 mil cr assets. That's because I've taken my time, one mission at a time, working my way up with the career in mind rather than the credits.

Do you agree? Do you think FD might as well just remove credits, or just award everyone a bazillion credits as soon as they start a new CMDR?

They could remove the 1mil+ payouts for the void opals. It doesn't make sense to have those. And there might be other tweaks, but other than that, you can work as hard as you want to make credits, but you can also focus you game on career and let the money slowly trickling in. The second way of playing would be gone if we all started with a billion credits.

Is this good for the game or bad for it?

If ED was a game where there was something to spend these massive amounts of credits, for example, like X's empire building, then there might be a use for them all. If it was a single player game, well, i still think it would be far too easy to make credits, but hey single player.

Maybe the plan is to introduce credit sinks in the future and they just prepped the game to allow players to gather credits for what's coming.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

I've started a new commander in early 2018 (the old one had over 5000 hours). Never grinded for money, quite the contrary, I'm throwing very generously money to the game in form of high level donations just for getting up some rep or inc. Nonetheless I already own a decent fleet again, mostly fully engineered including among other ships a Corvette, an FDL and a Python and yet I'm at almost 900 Mio cr again.

The best part where the game still feels healthy to me, income-wise, are the first 2-3 month. What then comes feels just so wrong. But I guess I've already said all that and I have zero hopes that this will ever change. If we wouldn't have engineers, I would wipe my commander once again and in a blink.

I don't feel the early game is healthy either.

Even by actively crippling my income - I'm only earning credits by passively FSSing bodies in the Bubble - I was still able to buy and outfit a DBX within 20 hours. I've earned enough from scanning (not mapping) a single system to buy a DBS.

All sense of progression through the small ships is lost by the excessive payouts.

 

[StevieG]

Hey I've got a good idea lads, lets make missions more profitable than anything else and totally break the game, what you think?
Yeah, lets get it in the 2.0 patch and RIP the trade/pirate economy.

Whoever at FDEV thought it was a good idea to make 50mil missions made a big mistake.
Whoever at FDEV thought it was a good idea to let you stack multiple 50mil missions made a big mistake.

Everyone his silly amounts of credits and nothing to spend it on, no more grind to do, time to play crusader kings 2.

 

[Stealthie]

Also, storing ships should be prized. Stuffing stations with armadas of large ships for free?! Hello?!

Not as easy as it sounds.

Apply a storage cost that's constant and you risk creating a situation where somebody who doesn't play the game for an extended period (say, between now and late 2020) might come back to find they're bankrupt... which doesn't exactly encourage somebody to pick the game up again.

Equally, if you apply a storage cost which only increments while a player is logged in - but is also significant enough to be worthwhile implementing - then you risk creating a situation where a player with limited game-time has to spend all their game-time earning the credits they need to pay the storage costs of the ships they want to fly... which means they won't get to fly those ships and, once again, isn't likely to encourage people to continue to play.

Let's face it, nobody takes kindly to being penalised for things that they're used to getting for free.
The only way to help make credits work again is to create new gameplay which is a credit-sink... which isn't likely to happen for nearly 2 years.

Said it before but what FDev should have done (six months ago) is have Ram Tah hint that there were several Guardian Beacons throughout the galaxy and finding them would be a breakthrough for humanity.
That, for starters, would have given players something to do for the next 2 years.
Once we'd found a handful of them, have RT announce that the beacons might be some kind of teleporter and they need more research.
There would then follow a couple of CGs to build stations near the closest beacons to the bubble.
Shortly afterward, it'd be announced that some faction had taken control of the station and were charging people, say, Cr10m a pop to use the operational beacon to travel somewhere.

Ideally, this'd also generate something a bit like PP too, whereby if a player-faction took control of the relevant system, whatever people paid to use the beacons could be divided between the faction members, which'd create a reason for people to attack and defend the systems with beacons in them.

As more and more beacons are found, the network would expand (not massively, maybe a couple of dozen throughout the galaxy at most) and it'd create an opportunity for a variety of gameplay, while we're waiting for Project 2020.

 

[Lightspeed]

I admittedly play mostly solo or in a group with my brothers, but i did have to run away from players in open years ago 2 or 3 times (and engaged in pointless murder myself on less than 10 occasions - mind you i don't do that anymore since years). Has it really become so difficult to escape? I mean… of course you need modified ships in open. You seem experienced, are you getting ganked often despite of working with G5 thrusters, shields and armor?

Thanks for replying. No not often at all, but if and when they do it's usually two or three ships which cannot be fought off easily. The weapons are usually specialized to overcome decent armor/shields quickly and running away has to be pretty fast to survive.

These days, if you aren't carrying a time invested material, such as data, or mission rewards, it's easier just to let it happen and buy a new ship because credits are so easy to come by. It's less fun, but also less aggravating.

 

[Northpin]

I checked my credit card and I payed for the game on November 24th.

After the initial fumbling in the Sidewinder - like getting out of the station sooo slow that I was getting warnings to clear the entrance - I started to do missions.
As someone that did try to make some credits in the original Elite, but failed (that was somewhere back in '88-'91), I thought missions were great.
I only did data missions in the sidewinder, then I got a Cobra and started to do supply/delivery missions.
I tried to do a bounty mission, but failed miserably and gave up after 30-45 minutes.
So no more non-credit-efficient missions, that is I went back to supply/delivery and soon I was able to get an AspX that could ferry 120t of cargo and the money started to flow especially when I started to stack supply missions with the occasional delivery one. And when you are allied with all the factions in the station, missions pay really well.

After about 100 ingame hours, my assets were about 400 millions. And also got the Houdini achievement - that is evading 200 interdictions
Because you know, fighting pirates is bad for the credits...
Then I got a Krait and made even more credits, then a Python and so on.

First weekend of February I already had a fully engineered Cutter equipped for armed trading, worth of 1.2 billions and I was sitting on about 2.5 billions assets.


And to conclude, I think the credits are fine as they are now.
The credits are not given away, you have to do the grind.

IF you are determined to make credits, you can. And it's ok
If not, you can play for 3 years and still not have a 1 billion credits ship. And this is also ok.
Making 100 billions credits can be just another goal to aim for, as valid as going to Beagle Point while scanning every single system you jump in.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Hey I've got a good idea lads, lets make missions more profitable than anything else and totally break the game, what you think?
Yeah, lets get it in the 2.0 patch and RIP the trade/pirate economy.

Whoever at FDEV thought it was a good idea to make 50mil missions made a big mistake.
Whoever at FDEV thought it was a good idea to let you stack multiple 50mil missions made a big mistake.

Everyone his silly amounts of credits and nothing to spend it on, no more grind to do, time to play crusader kings 2.

Indeed. How can it make any sense at all to make more money being a simple courier to transport someone else's generic goods than to buy the exact goods yourself and deliver thus cutting out the middle man. It is nonsense imo.
Don't get me wrong I love the missions and some DO make sense but others are just illogical

 

[CMDR Big Mike]

I like the Credits where they are currently. Recently I logged back into GTA online for the first time in years because I saw all the new stuff they added. Main issue is, that new stuff all costs millions, and making money is a crawl in that game. I quickly realized that i would have to spend a massive amount of time or buy the unreasonably priced shark cards. It put me off from the game which is otherwise fun.

Also, I think there is absolutely NO merit in the arbitrary "sidewinder to conda in a week" argument. How much is a person playing in that week? what is their experience level? its such a useless standard. Also, it is not necessarily a bad thing at all. In the earlier days of elite dangerous, there was a clear hierarchy of ships, with the conda being the best for most things. I think that now with all the added ships, the hierarchy is flattened out. It is still a good ship but is by no means the best at anything.

I think the current credits allow players the mobility to go after what they want without much of the frustrating grind that was present before. Now a lot of the dull game play loops have been replaced with more engaging content, and most of it is actually rewarding.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I like the Credits where they are currently. Recently I logged back into GTA online for the first time in years because I saw all the new stuff they added. Main issue is, that new stuff all costs millions, and making money is a crawl in that game. I quickly realized that i would have to spend a massive amount of time or buy the unreasonably priced shark cards. It put me off from the game which is otherwise fun.

Also, I think there is absolutely NO merit in the arbitrary "sidewinder to conda in a week" argument. How much is a person playing in that week? what is their experience level? its such a useless standard. Also, it is not necessarily a bad thing at all. In the earlier days of elite dangerous, there was a clear hierarchy of ships, with the conda being the best for most things. I think that now with all the added ships, the hierarchy is flattened out. It is still a good ship but is by no means the best at anything.

I think the current credits allow players the mobility to go after what they want without much of the frustrating grind that was present before. Now a lot of the dull game play loops have been replaced with more engaging content, and most of it is actually rewarding.

I guess it depends on your motivations for playing. If you just want a sandbox with toys to play with the the current credit earning I imagine is ok. IF however you want to play in a sensible economy then imo it's pretty rubbish
(GTA online is also pretty rubbish from the same point of view too. You need heaps of money to buy anything in GTA which is also daft.

 

[zarrazee]

mmm OP, not sure. A mate of mine has just started playing Elite and after 30 hours, he's only managed to get an Adder and upgrade it a little. I reckon those of us that have been around or people who watch "get rich quick" videos get cash quickly, but "normal" new players? Perhaps credit progression is about right.

 

[GeneralIdea1964]

I restarted game with a new 2nd account cmdr and after pottering around doing a few deliveries and salvage operations had accumulated a nice amount of money and upgraded the sidey as much as non-engineers would allow. So I'd questioned OPs thread title.

... Then I refitted for exploring. Nothing fancy, just good jump range (16LY), an SRV Bay and a surface scanner.
So alls going well, I've sussed that you don't have to use the FSS (hurray) and can pretty much do things the old way.
I included a few surface scans (not that enjoyable).
So halfway through I get an explorer upgrade from the Elite Federation, I've not even got back to sell data, how do they know?
So I have travelled about 300LY from home, a total of maybe 25 jumps and have two engineer invites pop up.
This is still only just outside the bubble for flips sake!
So after about 3 hours play, I decide to return home.
Stopping at the first star port I can find, I sell my discovery data.
Now my cmdr has over 2.5 million credits.
I think this is ridiculously easy. I wasn't even interdicted by a pirate.
Later I winged up with a friend and we did a pirate hunting mission. With relatively little effort we both gained 1 million credits.
There is no challenge even for someone with my moderate skills.
I know I've played for a while and have learned a lot of the tricks, but I still expect to have to work at ranking up.
I know people want to upgrade ships and things quickly, but there should be some effort required.
At moment I agree with OP, credits are pointless and too easily earned.

 

[Schmack]

There's a path to acquire almost everything in the game the easy way. Many people will take it. Either it's hauling sightseers to get ranking/cash or hitting the latest gold rush for cash. Then there's the road to riches to get the Explorer elite status. Combat bonds and bounty hunting make Combat Elite rather easy as well. The only thing that's not made easier is traveling to the end of the galaxy, save for the new stopping points.

It doesn't matter what you call currency, it will be easy to get once a lot of people get focused on the game enough to find the secrets. Then they'll share them online and others will do these things without so much as lifting a finger to actually uncover these things. Just like that, another easy button but created by players in the name of subscriptions, perhaps trying to monetize their YT or whatever they do.

 

[Zeeman]

Yup, pretty much. I spent 9 months out int he black back in Season 1, I got 253m cr going to Beagle Point and then back clockwise on the outer arms.

A quick run to Beagle point, with a cherry picking mentality, and mostly just Jonking (the new mechanics dropped as I arrived at Beagle Point), resulted in about 120m cr when I got to Colonia (not even the bubble!). Another 60m or so when I got to the bubble, and keep in mind, this is a 78LY Anaconda - so far fewer systems visited, (less than half) and all pretty much straight line travel.

Not to mention the time frame of about 3 weeks, with very little actual game time. I worked very hard for that 253m cr first time around - scanning just about anything I saw as a Metal Rich planet or above.

Z...

I don't feel the early game is healthy either.

Even by actively crippling my income - I'm only earning credits by passively FSSing bodies in the Bubble - I was still able to buy and outfit a DBX within 20 hours. I've earned enough from scanning (not mapping) a single system to buy a DBS.

All sense of progression through the small ships is lost by the excessive payouts.

 

[Kenpachi85]

mmm OP, not sure. A mate of mine has just started playing Elite and after 30 hours, he's only managed to get an Adder and upgrade it a little. I reckon those of us that have been around or people who watch "get rich quick" videos get cash quickly, but "normal" new players? Perhaps credit progression is about right.

I was in the same position when I first started playing 4 months ago seems that people who want credits to be harder to get or ships more expensive to buy/upgrade/repair have been at it for years. I can make over a hundred million a hour by stacking massacre missions and hunting my targets down in res sites with my g5 vette but as a new Cmdr I couldn't make anywhere near that much. Make stuff too hard and new players wont join up that often and the game will slowly die.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

mmm OP, not sure. A mate of mine has just started playing Elite and after 30 hours, he's only managed to get an Adder and upgrade it a little. I reckon those of us that have been around or people who watch "get rich quick" videos get cash quickly, but "normal" new players? Perhaps credit progression is about right.

I scanned a single system in the Bubble, no mapping, no First Discovery and earned enough for a T6.
From ONE system.
I'm not sure what your mate has been doing for his 30 hours.