This game needs to impose itself upon the player.

[Deleted member 115407]

I've just escaped from a Thargoid CZ, with hull corroding in the 20's, out of repair limpets, and desperately trying to make it as fast as possible to the closest station without getting into a loop. Approaching at high speed, hoping for docking permission and landing fast with the hull almost out was ............. exciting ! [woah]

The game still provides its moments at times !

It does! I'm not saying that it's devoid of fun.

I will say this - the only reason that I haven't gotten gud at fighting Thargoids, is because the game hasn't made me git gud at fighting thargoids.

IMO, it should be a do or die type of thing.

 

[Riverside]

I remember when in the 1984 version of Elite when thargoids were an absolute nightmare for a new player. When one hyperdicted you (and this could happen anywhere) it was kill it or it killed you. Then when you get the hang of one, here's two hyperdicting you, then we throw in some thargons as well. Good times.

And I remember (later in the game, see my avatar) taking them in my stride and looking forward to the fight. I don't remember complaining that the difficulty did not continue to ramp up. To coin a phrase, it was rare & meaningful

 

[Sylow]

I remember when in the 1984 version of Elite when thargoids were an absolute nightmare for a new player. When one hyperdicted you (and this could happen anywhere) it was kill it or it killed you. Then when you get the hang of one, here's two hyperdicting you, then we throw in some thargons as well. Good times.

I also remember in the old game that even successfully defeating all Thargoids after the hyperdiction usually was a death sentence. You were out of fuel and no star in range. But also, any damage to your commander was what happened since the last save game. Which for any not completely braindead player was just before launching the last time and being hyperdicted.

To match that, we have to remove any death punishment, new ships have to come for free. Sounds good?

I will say this - the only reason that I haven't gotten gud at fighting Thargoids, is because the game hasn't made me git gud at fighting thargoids.

Yea. The game is not your mom/teacher/boss/wife telling you to do things. It's a game, where you can choose to do things. It works well enough for me, but this whole thread feels like it's pushing into the other direction.

 

[RamirezKurita]

It does! I'm not saying that it's devoid of fun.

I will say this - the only reason that I haven't gotten gud at fighting Thargoids, is because the game hasn't made me git gud at fighting thargoids.

IMO, it should be a do or die type of thing.

Not only that, it hasn't even given you a valid reason to go and fight Thargoids. The credit income is negligible, you don't get many useful materials and the various factions in the galaxy couldn't care less about whether you kill Thargoids or not. It's a difficult, yet completely thankless task that offers no real in-game reason to attempt.

 

[aries_four]

Everything in this game is too forgiving.

You can escape any NPC simply by boost-boost-jumping away.
NPC Combat is a joke.
Pirated NPCs will literally just sit there and let you pirate them.
Markets are so stable that it's virtually impossible to lose money when trading.
Factions will pay you to find worthless space rocks far-far away that no faction should ever care about.
You can be wanted, with a hold full of the most ludicrous contraband, and you can slip into port just be going silent for a moment (and the traffic controller is like "meh".)
Authority ships are reactive only (they should be all over bounties like stink on...).
Stations are totally passive unless you provoke them.
Thargoids are caged inside USSs, and pose no threat unless you choose to engage them.
Factions hold no grudge(You can descend on a faction like Ghengis Khan, then run a few missions for them and they're like "meh").
Same with superpowers - there is no risk-reward factor when working with/for superpowers (i.e. You can be top rank in both, and they're both like "meh".)
Powerplay is just bad and needs to be completely redesigned.

What did I miss?
In what other ways do you feel that this game fails to impose itself upon you?
How would you like to see this game impose itself upon you to make PvE gameplay more interesting?

Vin

Also there are very few dangers in exploration where there should be: I can get within kilometers of a black hole without danger, or not worry at all about getting stuck in a star's gravity if I drop out of SC.

 

[Sylow]

Not only that, it hasn't even given you a valid reason to go and fight Thargoids. The credit income is negligible, you don't get many useful materials and the various factions in the galaxy couldn't care less about whether you kill Thargoids or not. It's a difficult, yet completely thankless task that offers no real in-game reason to attempt.

That unfortunately is true. The activity is not rewarded by the game. It can be fun, but there's plenty of room for improvement. Check the corresponding thread in the suggestions forum.

 

[Sysmon]

sysmon to be fair the station isn't in the same system as Sag a is it...it's 2ly away. I have no idea if that would still be close enough for the radiation to kill though.

Stars are extremely close in the core in general, so the general radiation and degradation from just being within the core should be instant destruction from anything but very well-shielded ships. Could be a feature that only exploration-specific ships (or builds) with very good radiation shielding could go there. We could even go full Vernor Vinge on the galaxy and have the galactic edge being similarly dangerous due to the weird physics out where space is really thin.

S

 

[Deleted member 38366]

Let's face it : it's just an Arcade Game, formed by a collection of simple or less-simple Mini-Games. All catered to a PEGI 7+ Audience with monetization aka business in mind.

It's mostly a series of sometimes gamey mechanics, some of which interact with each other, others do so only temporarily and again others sit there entirely isolated and disconnected.
As a result, alot of things don't make much or even any sense. Inconsistent, fragmented, scripted, mechanical. And Scripts & Mechanics often don't make for enjoyable/challenging/surprising/engaging/emerging/dynamic Gameplay.

If you're looking for a deep and detailed Sandbox where everything makes sense, is logical, well-balanced, a world where high stakes also involve truly challenging tasks or high risks, a world where actions have lasting and expected consequences ?
This is not the Game you're looking for. Simple as that. It had the potential (cue DDF) but FDev chose to prioritize business and broad multi-platform accessibility instead.

If that's good or bad is up to personal judgment.
Was definitely a very solid business decision for what it's worth. It came at a price, though. IMHO the Game realized only a tiny fraction of its full potential.

 

[zipline]

I do agree with the OP about the environment of space not being very challenging (excluding our own stupidity or lack of attention of course) as I have flown 10's of thousands of lyrs in a single journey and used just one heatsink and not even touched the AFMU I am carrying. But I am not sure how FD could get the balance right without sinking some serious investment into the game, and from a hard-nosed business point of view ... for what gain? Also, this is a computer simulation, not real life ... so all attempts at random danger would quickly be found out, the solutions would be immortalised in a sticky post to more cries of "this game is too easy/predictable".

 

[Sylow]

If that's good or bad is up to personal judgment.
Was definitely a very solid business decision for what it's worth. It came at a price, though. IMHO the Game realized only a tiny fraction of its full potential.

Quite certainly it was the right decission. If they would've decided that the already now niché game should go the full distance to cut down its playerbase even more and by force, we wouldn't be complaining here about missed chances. We wouldn't be complaining about FD planing far ahead and having the next -big- release in 2020. We wouldn't be talking about QOL improvements. We wouldn't wonder what the 100 people working on the game are actually doing. We would know all two developers still working on the game by name, would complain that people just don't see the potential and be sad that the game wouldn't get any further improvements and upgrades.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

Not only that, it hasn't even given you a valid reason to go and fight Thargoids. The credit income is negligible, you don't get many useful materials and the various factions in the galaxy couldn't care less about whether you kill Thargoids or not. It's a difficult, yet completely thankless task that offers no real in-game reason to attempt.

Also there are very few dangers in exploration where there should be: I can get within kilometers of a black hole without danger, or not worry at all about getting stuck in a star's gravity if I drop out of SC.

These, +1

I do agree with the OP about the environment of space not being very challenging (excluding our own stupidity or lack of attention of course) as I have flown 10's of thousands of lyrs in a single journey and used just one heatsink and not even touched the AFMU I am carrying. But I am not sure how FD could get the balance right without sinking some serious investment into the game, and from a hard-nosed business point of view ... for what gain? Also, this is a computer simulation, not real life ... so all attempts at random danger would quickly be found out, the solutions would be immortalised in a sticky post to more cries of "this game is too easy/predictable".

I hate to do it, but here I go...

In Sea of Thieves, there are threats in the Ocean that are 100% not optional. Skeleton Ships and the Kraken (the megs to a lesser degree). These threats impose themselves upon the player. You have to deal with them. You can run if you want to, you can fight them to the death if you want to, but either way you have to deal with them. There is no boost-boost-jump until I'm 7ls out from the outpost. And you can git gud at fighting them, but sometimes they still git ya, even when you have a butt-load of treasure on board. And it's wonderful.

That's just a combat example. I will draft up some non-combat examples that could enhance Elite (not from SoT) later.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

Quite certainly it was the right decission. If they would've decided that the already now niché game should go the full distance to cut down its playerbase even more and by force, we wouldn't be complaining here about missed chances. We wouldn't be complaining about FD planing far ahead and having the next -big- release in 2020. We wouldn't be talking about QOL improvements. We wouldn't wonder what the 100 people working on the game are actually doing. We would know all two developers still working on the game by name, would complain that people just don't see the potential and be sad that the game wouldn't get any further improvements and upgrades.

I don't think it'd have cut down its Playerbase. Quite the opposite. No idea how many Players the Game lost just due to the non-existing C&P and exploits in Open Play alone. But that alone is very likely alot.

And I assume noone loves those gross inconsistencies or stuff that never made a grain of sense, with the exception of a very tiny minority maybe that capitalize upon that condition.
We'd operate in a world without these issues - but with a whole lot more Options. And rewards for those who'd dare to take up the risk or challenge.

Folks could still run Trade loops in unshielded Type-9's amongst safe and predictable Systems though, things like these wouldn't even change. Just take a tiny bit more consideration and accepting standard profits maybe, but that's about it.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

There does need to be a bit more consequence for actions in ED.

It can take quite a lot of effort to become hostile with a minor faction.
But not a lot to fix it.
IMHO, that's backwards.

Hostile should mean hostile too, so the station will shoot you down on sight, that factions security should chase you around. (You can always dock at a station they don't control though).

And it should take some dedication to actually bring your reputation up from hostile to unfriendly.

Major power reputation should be the same, and just working for one of the other major powers, should damage your reputation with the others.
Actively attacking a major power should drop your reputation with them significantly.
And becoming hostile should effect all minor factions standing towards you too.

Right now though, it's a bit of a hippy galaxy. Everyone just wants to love you. Lol

 

[Sysmon]

I do agree with the OP about the environment of space not being very challenging (excluding our own stupidity or lack of attention of course) as I have flown 10's of thousands of lyrs in a single journey and used just one heatsink and not even touched the AFMU I am carrying. But I am not sure how FD could get the balance right without sinking some serious investment into the game, and from a hard-nosed business point of view ... for what gain? Also, this is a computer simulation, not real life ... so all attempts at random danger would quickly be found out, the solutions would be immortalised in a sticky post to more cries of "this game is too easy/predictable".

Some things don't actually need much new added, and can simply be predictable dangers from the general environment. In the example I gave above, ambient radiation danger can simply be a function of the same mass distribution that give rise to the galaxy itself in Stellar Forge: High mass values in a sector will directly translate to high radiation values (possibly modified by star type distribution as well), since 99 % of mass in the galaxy is stars.

S

 

[Brrokk]

Not only that, it hasn't even given you a valid reason to go and fight Thargoids. The credit income is negligible, you don't get many useful materials and the various factions in the galaxy couldn't care less about whether you kill Thargoids or not. It's a difficult, yet completely thankless task that offers no real in-game reason to attempt.

The only valid reason to fight Thargoids is that you want to, because it's fun, because it's the kind of gameplay you enjoy. Those who want to fight them are doing so. Those who don't want to don't have to.

There's only one set of people who aren't happy about this: the people who want other people who don't want to fight Thargoids to be forced into doing it. Really, why should anyone think they have the right to control someone else's gameplay to that degree? I find the whole attitude unpleasant.

Do what you want to do and don't worry about it if other players make different choices.

 

[Chaparral]

I completely agree with the OP; however, the instanced structure of the game will not allow it. This is not a single shard megaserver. It's like moving from one box to another with transitional loading screens for each box. The only compelled portal for game action is the supercruise interdiction. The design philosophy is obscenely passive.

 

[Sylow]

Do what you want to do and don't worry about it if other players make different choices.

I agree. Although i also think that Thargoid content needs an upgrade. But not one which pushes players into it, but one which makes them even more interesting and more rewarding. Not necessarily in terms of credits. (AX CZs give acceptable money. It's not a gold rush, but it does pay. ) What really needs fixing is to make it feel more rewarding and less of a hamster wheel. But there's a thread about that in the suggestions forum. I guess that's the better place for this topic.

 

[Morbad]

There's only one set of people who aren't happy about this: the people who want other people who don't want to fight Thargoids to be forced into doing it.

I'm not happy about it because I think it makes for a silly game and this has nothing to do with other people.

My CMDR doesn't fight Thargoids because they don't bother him, which is completely at odds with them being the threat the game tries to make them out to be.

Do what you want to do and don't worry about it if other players make different choices.

I want to play a game where my CMDR doesn't always have a choice, where plausible in-game events occur despite what I may desire in that moment, and where past choices can negatively influence current options.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

The only valid reason to fight Thargoids is that you want to, because it's fun, because it's the kind of gameplay you enjoy. Those who want to fight them are doing so. Those who don't want to don't have to.

There's only one set of people who aren't happy about this: the people who want other people who don't want to fight Thargoids to be forced into doing it. Really, why should anyone think they have the right to control someone else's gameplay to that degree? I find the whole attitude unpleasant.

Do what you want to do and don't worry about it if other players make different choices.

It's not even about fighting the Thargoids. It's about them feeling like a part of the galaxy, part of the game, and something you have to consider out there.

Story time! A while back my buddies and I were hunting Federals in an area under attack by Thargoids. On more than a few occasions one of us would get hyperdicted. Having some Guardian FSD boosters on board you bet we took them seriously - never mind the fact it knocked one of us out of position! Of course, getting away from a Thargoid (even without the shutdown field neutralizer) isn't that difficult but let me tell you we certainly enjoyed the spice it added to the experience.

I think that's more the thing Vin's talkin' about here.

 

[Jmanis]

Yup, been saying the same thing for ages.

I had a screenshot that sums up the game perfectly. But I lost it. Lol

But here's the gist of it:

"You're not welcome here, enemy!"
*Requests docking permission*
"Docking permission granted"

Ah, here it is. It's old.


Lol

That's definitely an old shot. You can no longer request docking when hostile.

Funnily enough though... that change is one of the worst things FD ever did... if the OP's post is about imposing the game on the player, then the whole "locking a player out when Hostile" misses the mark entirely.

Anonymity Protocols should allow docking when Hostile/Wanted/Otherwise unable to dock normally, and should be a docking option next to "Request Docking", being "Request Docking (Anonymous)". There are a whole host of reasons why docking under such circumstances should not just be allowed, but encouraged. But I've been banging this drum way too long to care to repeat myself anymore. There could be very engaging mechanics around Anonymity protocols and antagonistic behaviours... instead the community seems to think being "blocked" from something is gameplay...

The game encourages "bad guys" to stay clean, and actually punishes "good guys", instead of encouraging bad guys to embrace their notoriety.