Will Elite Dangerous make it to Google's Streaming Console?

TheSisko

TheSisko
I'm curious if Elite Dangerous will be available on Google's Stadia cloud gaming service, announced today at GDC:

https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/19/18271702/google-stadia-cloud-gaming-service-announcement-gdc-2019
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VG06H7IQ9Aw

I'm not saying I would play ED on there (or Xbox's incoming xCloud streaming service) but it would seem a good way for Frontier to expand the potential player base and get a few more Commanders blown up in open play into the galaxy. Of course I have no idea how hard it would be for the ED Console Team to do a Stadia-version of ED, or if Google will actually solve the latency issue for such a game to run well on there.
 

LeoBartlet

LeoBartlet
TheSisko said:
Call it what you like. Doesn't invalidate the question.
Click to expand...

If you're going to ask a question then its best to be as accurate as possible.

It's not a console and your question will only upset the sensitive souls on the forum who hate consoles for whatever reason and blame them for all of Elites ills.
 

Cocalarix

Cocalarix
Not sure how would it work though. I don't think they could do crossplay between Sadia players and regular Elite players. And didn't they mention that they support Unreal and Unity engine? I bet the engine would matter a lot for a multiplayer game.

Elite is such a different kind of beast, it's hard to see it on something like this. I personally would never play Elite on it, since it probably wouldn't work with VR at all.

I wish Google good luck though. Sadia does seem to have a lot of advantages, so I'm definitely tempted.

If there's one company who can pull off a gaming Netflix service, it's Google.
 

StuartGT

StuartGT
Google's Stadia is a platform, not a console. However, a console is a platform.

Engines that have announced support for Stadia include Unreal, Unity, and CryEngine.
 
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StuartGT

StuartGT
FDev would need to port Cobra and then Elite Dangerous to Linux & Vulkan (the selected Stadia OS and API). Then either find a way for Google Cloud (Stadia) BGS to connect to the existing Amazon Web Services BGS (Windows, Xbox, Playstation), keep them separate, or move all to Google Cloud.

Peer2Peer for all Stadia CMDRs would work near flawlessly with huge instances (because no pesky latencies between CMDRs).

Input Lag on Stadia is much higher than on traditional platforms due to latency. Digital Foundry have tested input lag using Assassin's Creed Odyssey to be in the range of 150ms to 200ms for Stadia, whereas a PC is at ~75ms.

FPS and lag would mean VR support on Stadia is near impossible.
 
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Jakester13

Jakester13
Yeah they based the success on tweets from AC players' experiences using the platform.

But they really didn't hang around to discuss latency.

Instead they promised 120 fps and 8K :D

If any company has the credits to go large, Alphabet is one!
 
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TheSisko

TheSisko
LeoBartlet said:
If you're going to ask a question then its best to be as accurate as possible.

It's not a console and your question will only upset the sensitive souls on the forum who hate consoles for whatever reason and blame them for all of Elites ills.
Click to expand...

Don't care about upsetting people that sensitive about consoles/streaming services running ED. They would be / are upset anyway.
 

TheSisko

TheSisko
StuartGT said:
FDev would need to port Cobra and then Elite Dangerous to Linux & Vulkan (the selected Stadia OS and API). Then either find a way for Google Cloud (Stadia) BGS to connect to the existing Amazon Web Services BGS (Windows, Xbox, Playstation), keep them separate, or move all to Google Cloud.

Peer2Peer for all Stadia CMDRs would work near flawlessly with huge instances (because no pesky latencies between CMDRs).

Input Lag on Stadia is much higher than on traditional platforms due to latency. Digital Foundry have tested input lag using Assassin's Creed Odyssey to be in the range of 150ms to 200ms for Stadia, whereas a PC is at ~75ms.

FPS and lag would mean VR support on Stadia is near impossible.
Click to expand...

So....there's a chance? :D

I think Stadia will do very well. I liked the idea of developers being able to stack CPU/GPU resources for better performance and graphics (but I'm sure that will cost extra).

Latency is an issue. I know Xbox are working on client hardware to reduce that, apparently they hope to reduce that to under 10ms:
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2019-03-19-microsofts-cloud-gains-substance

If Microsoft can do it I don't see why Google can't, eventually.
 
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StuartGT

StuartGT
TheSisko said:
So....there's a chance? :D

I think Stadia will do very well. I liked the idea of developers being able to stack CPU/GPU resources for better performance and graphics (but I'm sure that will cost extra).

Latency is an issue. I know Xbox are working on client hardware to reduce that, apparently they hope to reduce that to under 10ms:
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2019-03-19-microsofts-cloud-gains-substance

If Microsoft can do it I don't see why Google can't, eventually.
Click to expand...
Like with Google and Microsoft, it's very likely Amazon are already working on a similar platform. While they may not have an as-widespread datacentre (DC) distribution as Google (6500+ DCs worldwide of various sizes according to today's presentation) Amazon's overall capacity and distribution could be similar (fewer, larger DCs). They have AmazonStore, Prime, Twitch, Audible, etc already using those DCs.

FDev could have the option of porting Elite Dangerous to the AWS Cloud Product (AWStadia?) and at the same time update current clients (PC, Xbox, Playstation) with hybrid tech from that porting:
  • Move the client-side peer-to-peer networking to Cloud Instances/Nodes (gonna call them nodes from now on, to avoid confusion with in-game instances, i.e. ~32 in bubble, 100+ during mass-jumps)
  • Windows/Xbox/Playstation clients install/play the game as normal
  • Clients connect and communicate with their nearest node - small latency between client & node
  • Nodes use Peer2peer to connect to other AWStadia nodes - minimal latency between nodes (either on same node, or ones nearby)
  • All nodes connect to the main Elite Dangerous AWS servers (BGS, authentication, adjudication, missions, etc) - minimal latency between node & server
  • Clients still do the vast bulk of performance-requiring tasks - rendering, input-recognition, gameplay calculations, etc
  • Bar the connectivity of client to Cloud Instance/Node, there shouldn't be any Peer2Peer issues like we have now (incompatible ISPs & MTUs, UPNP, port tunneling, etc) as they'd all be "server-side"
  • Server-nodes/instances distributed worldwide means much lower networking latency than if all players connected to one/few separate worldwide servers (e.g. EU, USA, Oceania), so it'd be close to the low-latency-benefits of current Peer2Peer
  • Lower bandwidth requirements of clients, as they'd only be sending/receiving data between themselves and the nearest node, instead of to/from all players in the same game instance
  • Performance and Bandwidth requirements of Elite Dangerous nodes would be dramatically lower than Stadia-equivalent nodes - only running the Elite Dangerous networking stack
  • Therefore, each node could probably support thousands of connected-clients
  • VR continues to be supported on clients
  • Possibility of game improvements that require server-side networking: larger more-reliable instances (100s of players?) and matchmaking, persistent NPCs, immediate server-wide events & effects, combat logging punishment, etc and all the emergent gameplay that would come from those changes
Hierarchy:
LzGTKBa.png


TL;DR: Amazon have all these datacentres worldwide, a networking rewrite and upgrade would be very beneficial, and Elite's next major expansion (it's biggest one yet) is in development for 2nd half of 2020, so the time is right to do it :)
 
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TheSisko

TheSisko
StuartGT said:
Like with Google and Microsoft, it's very likely Amazon are already working on a similar platform. While they may not have an as-widespread datacentre (DC) distribution as Google (6500+ DCs worldwide of various sizes according to today's presentation) Amazon's overall capacity and distribution could be similar (fewer, larger DCs). They have AmazonStore, Prime, Twitch, Audible, etc already using those DCs.

FDev could have the option of porting Elite Dangerous to the AWS Cloud Product (AWStadia?) and at the same time update current clients (PC, Xbox, Playstation) with hybrid tech from that porting:
  • Move the client-side peer-to-peer networking to Cloud Instances/Nodes (gonna call them nodes from now on, to avoid confusion with in-game instances, i.e. ~32 in bubble, 100+ during mass-jumps)
  • Windows/Xbox/Playstation clients install/play the game as normal
  • Clients connect and communicate with their nearest node - small latency between client & node
  • Nodes use Peer2peer to connect to other AWStadia nodes - minimal latency between nodes (either on same node, or ones nearby)
  • All nodes connect to the main Elite Dangerous AWS servers (BGS, authentication, adjudication, missions, etc) - minimal latency between node & server
  • Clients still do the vast bulk of performance-requiring tasks - rendering, input-recognition, gameplay calculations, etc
  • Bar the connectivity of client to Cloud Instance/Node, there shouldn't be any Peer2Peer issues like we have now (incompatible ISPs & MTUs, UPNP, port tunneling, etc) as they'd all be "server-side"
  • Server-nodes/instances distributed worldwide means much lower networking latency than if all players connected to one/few separate worldwide servers (e.g. EU, USA, Oceania), so it'd be close to the low-latency-benefits of current Peer2Peer
  • Lower bandwidth requirements of clients, as they'd only be sending/receiving data between themselves and the nearest node, instead of to/from all players in the same game instance
  • Performance and Bandwidth requirements of Elite Dangerous nodes would be dramatically lower than Stadia-equivalent nodes - only running the Elite Dangerous networking stack
  • Therefore, each node could probably support thousands of connected-clients
  • VR continues to be supported on clients
  • Possibility of game improvements that require server-side networking: larger more-reliable instances (100s of players?) and matchmaking, persistent NPCs, immediate server-wide events & effects, combat logging punishment, etc and all the emergent gameplay that would come from those changes
Hierarchy:


TL;DR: Amazon have all these datacentres worldwide, a networking rewrite and upgrade would be very beneficial, and Elite's next major expansion (it's biggest one yet) is in development for 2nd half of 2020, so the time is right to do it :)
Click to expand...

You should work for Frontier, I like the way you think. [up] I did speculate in another thread that now would be the time to re-factor the code for ED to make it easier for Frontier to add content and maintain the code. P2P networking is holding this game back in so many ways.

Yeah, I can't see Amazon sitting idly by and watching Google and Xbox gorge themselves silly on the Gaming Cake. Amazon already have experience of making hardware and have the cloud infrastructure to pull off a move into the game-streaming market. They perhaps could sweeten the deal with offering hardware/software discounts as part of Amazon Prime.

Very interesting times for Gaming and perhaps Elite Dangerous as well. A lot will change by the time 4.0 drops out of supercruise.
 
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Vedmo

Vedmo
Why would I want to stream a game when I could just load it on my PC? Serious question, I don't see the point of this.
 

TheSisko

TheSisko
Vedmo said:
Why would I want to stream a game when I could just load it on my PC? Serious question, I don't see the point of this.
Click to expand...

Its not aimed at people like yourself, but at people who don't or won't purchase expensive consoles or PCs. I expect Stadia to be a lot cheaper then both of those options.
 

thistle

T
It's not the first attempt at streaming. The others failed ...

Let's assume for a moment that the claims that Fdev were thinking of the next gen consoles in 2020 are true. Those are still going ahead, despite this announcement from google. If - if - Fdev wanted to convert their games (plural) from cobra to work with google's system, it would be an additional step to gain potential additional customers outside of the existing pc/microsoft/sony customer base. It won't be developed now for googles system, but converted later once complete. Post 2020.

In summary, meh.
 
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