Crime & Punishment feature useless?

[Marshall...]

You can track player bounties through station bulletin boards.

It does not work in reality. I spent 2 years as a player bounty hunter and the only way I could track folks, is by having them on my friends list.

It's broken because:

It does not show if they are logged in
It does not show you where in system they are
It does not show you which platform they are on. So you could be chasing a player who is on PS4, so you'll never meet
It does not show you if they are in Open, solo or PG

In concept it's good, in application its crap.

SDC wrote a fantastic crime and punishment proposal, which was ignored for the farce we have now.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

A wise woman once told me that the secret to raising well-behaved children isn't the severity of punishment, but the inevitability of such.

I think that we can safely conclude that between the anemic response to combat logging and the total unwillingness to enforce even the basics of C&P, Frontier is the cowed parent too afraid to stand up to their own misbehaving children.

Two basic fundamentals of the game right there. How can one still have confidence at this stage?

 

[Captain Thea Kreutzer]

Two basic fundamentals of the game right there. How can one still have confidence at this stage?

Because not everyone lives a criminal lifestyle

 

[Trollymctrollerson]

This thread gave me an idea. The store should sell a red scales decal. I'd pay a buck and slap that stupid thing on all my ships.

 

[Darty]

You should have to pay the entire bounty when you die, if you can't you lose your ship and all your credits. And support should not refund ships lost because you were a ganker with 400M bounty on your head an died without enough to pay for it.

Crime and punishment has done nothing to stop the griefers.

 

[Maro-Val]

Crime & Punishment... we asked for it.. frontier delivered this disaster lol.

 

[Feros-da-Grundig]

C&P actually does a decent job of curbing PvE murderhobo'ing of NPCs to tank a faction's security or inf levels from any of solo, PG or Open.

Since gankers are such a tiny minority of the playerbase that's the more important purpose of it anyway.

As is repeated often on this board PvE is the vast majority of gameplay - thus the C&P mechanic reflects this.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

Deleted. No idea what happened there.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

Crime and punishment has done nothing to stop the griefers.

Told ya so.

Now quick, everyone, beg FD for more C&P.

 

[Feros-da-Grundig]

Everyone in this thread is missing the big picture.

Saying C&P fails to deter ganking/PKilling is like saying the abrasion blaster is a poor PvP weapon. True but irrelevant and self evident.

C&P is not designed for the purpose of deterring ganking/player kills. It doesn't even matter if FDev claimed otherwise because as with all code the truth is in the implementation itself, not what is said about it.

C&P consequences are exactly the same for attacks on NPCs as for attacks on Players.

PvE (which includes attacks on NPCs) is vastly more common than PvP in this game.

Thus C&P primarily applies to PvE - despite folks wishing it was otherwise.

NPC murder is the single most effective PvE BGS action one can take*. This is because BGS is transactional and each murder immediately registers as a transaction without having to return to a station to "cash in" (as it the case for missions, bounties, bonds, cargo sales, cartographics, etc). In this regard there is no other PvE BGS action like the murder of an NPC.

C&P does indeed make it harder to rack up hundreds of NPC murders. The only time I've ever had notoriety 10 or encountered ATR was while performing PvE. One can reach these levels via player kills but it's much more difficult (at least on console).

It's ironic this needs to be explained by a ganker.

By and large players are meant to take care of themselves. This is evident from the implementation of the game, whether or not one likes it and regardless of what has or hasn't been claimed by FDev or anyone else.

*(BGS weighting of NPC murder might be different in 3.3 - I haven't worked out the details. It was certainly true 3.2 and prior)

 

[Martind Forlon]

Personally I have no issue with C&P functioning (in game). Reason for this thread was unconfirmed restoration of "wanted" ship by ED support (insuficient funds to cover rebuy plus bounties). If that information was false, then all good. If it was true, then imo purpose of C&P (how its implemented) makes no sense (it purpose would be destroyed by game creator itself). I only really do not understand why there were locked (and removed) threads here on forum and this not only here, there was at least temporary locked stuff also on reddit. Just short information (official) like "no restoration" of ship by support happened, and is done. Case closed. But this didn't happened ... alas

 

[Trollymctrollerson]

I still massacre npcs to swing systems. My bounty gets huge but I dont give a damn. After a certain point its 600k per kill added on. That's how I know I'm doing a good job. I dont feel punished at all, I just laugh at the huge bounty. ATR dont bother me. I can kill all the cops in the instance and jump out before they come. Player killing is even easier. The warning is just another nuisance I wish I could turn off like the frame shift voice.

 

[Feros-da-Grundig]

I still massacre npcs to swing systems. My bounty gets huge but I dont give a damn. After a certain point its 600k per kill added on. That's how I know I'm doing a good job. I dont feel punished at all, I just laugh at the huge bounty. ATR dont bother me. I can kill all the cops in the instance and jump out before they come. Player killing is even easier. The warning is just another nuisance I wish I could turn off like the frame shift voice.

Yes, it's almost as toothless as the rest of PvE.

Your 600K ceiling is due to your rebuy. It can actually get a lot higher than this ;-)

There are other ways to effectively defeat the PvE side of C&P. Ramming ships to death reduces the bounty to 5000 and avoids notoriety. One can sell explo data to the ruling faction right before they become hostile to make life easier. Jumping in and out of system resets the ATR timer. Et cetera. Exactly the types of quirks one finds in PvE generally.

I wasn't saying C&P was an effective PvE deterrent, just that it makes it harder than if it wasn't there at all, and that it has a greater consequence in PvE than in PvP - greater to the extent it should be considered primarily a PvE feature. The fact it can be defeated relatively easily just makes it like everything else in PvE. The only challenge in PvE is in volume not difficulty.

What C&P does is incur a grinding cost to murderhobo'ing the BGS via NPCs, bringing it more in line with the grinding cost of other BGS actions. Money spent cleaning modules or shipping wanted vessels, time spent jumping in and out of system to reset BGS timer, etc.

 

[Feros-da-Grundig]

Personally I have no issue with C&P functioning (in game). Reason for this thread was unconfirmed restoration of "wanted" ship by ED support (insuficient funds to cover rebuy plus bounties). If that information was false, then all good. If it was true, then imo purpose of C&P (how its implemented) makes no sense (it purpose would be destroyed by game creator itself). I only really do not understand why there were locked (and removed) threads here on forum and this not only here, there was at least temporary locked stuff also on reddit. Just short information (official) like "no restoration" of ship by support happened, and is done. Case closed. But this didn't happened ... alas

On this very forum just a few weeks ago FDev chose to remove the fines for a member who had incurred them per C&P rules - this was when Explo Anch first opened but didn't have an auth contact yet.

It is and has always been the case FDev can waive/move/restore fines/ships/anything at their discretion. That isn't even really up for debate, they're pretty explicit about this.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

Personally I have no issue with C&P functioning (in game). Reason for this thread was unconfirmed restoration of "wanted" ship by ED support (insuficient funds to cover rebuy plus bounties). If that information was false, then all good. If it was true, then imo purpose of C&P (how its implemented) makes no sense (it purpose would be destroyed by game creator itself). I only really do not understand why there were locked (and removed) threads here on forum and this not only here, there was at least temporary locked stuff also on reddit. Just short information (official) like "no restoration" of ship by support happened, and is done. Case closed. But this didn't happened ... alas

Explorers and Traders and other PvE types have been getting their ships restored for years when they flew without rebuy, so what's the difference?

 

[Feros-da-Grundig]

Explorers and Traders and other PvE types have been getting their ships restored for years when they flew without rebuy, so what's the difference?

Gankas bad, Vin.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

Gankas bad, Vin.

Yeah. Gankas deserve the sidey.

 

[deleteduser]

It does not work in reality. I spent 2 years as a player bounty hunter and the only way I could track folks, is by having them on my friends list.

It's broken because:

It does not show if they are logged in...
...It does not show you where in system they are

This isn't 'broken', it's a bounty tracking tool not a god-mode. The Bounty Hunter does and should have to earn the kill by finding the perp.

It does not show you which platform they are on. So you could be chasing a player who is on PS4, so you'll never meet...

Valid point, but Crossplay is it's own issue and will hopefully be sorted soon. Until its implemented, pointing to Crossplay issues as anything other than crossplay issues is not sustainable.

It does not show you if they are in Open, solo or PG

Another valid point, Solo/PG/Open have a lot to answer for in terms of imbalanced gameplay.

SDC wrote a fantastic crime and punishment proposal, which was ignored for the farce we have now

SDC understand to an extent the problems, since they're delving super deep into game mechanics. The problems caused by Solo/PG/Open could do with a little of their attention.

 

[Backelaer]

Explorers and Traders and other PvE types have been getting their ships restored for years when they flew without rebuy, so what's the difference?

It was wrong then, and it would be wrong now.
Then again, I took the effort to actually watch the video, and he just sold a bunch of ships to be able to pay to get the anaconda back. So I don't even know why everybody is discussing this.

 

[Martind Forlon]

Explorers and Traders and other PvE types have been getting their ships restored for years when they flew without rebuy, so what's the difference?

Guess they are not those with a big bounty placed on theirs head? This is a difference (big) imo. But to be honest, it would be much better if this game system allow recover lost stuff (or bigger part) from ship debries and there are not any restores (at all) for these reasons. But this is for another discussion, is not related to thread topic.