This game needs to impose itself upon the player.

[Feros-da-Grundig]

I tried to play the Witcher III on Blood & Broken Bones last night, and couldn't get past the first ghoul encounter with Vessimir.

One can quibble about difficulty levels but I personally believe the fact that W3 has compelling plot and characters (rather than procgen nonsense) to be a more fundamental difference between the two games than the difficulty level. Of course that's just a matter of taste so debatable.

Ultimately any video game will become easy with enough practice (barring a few rare games with a very high degrees of randomness). For some games the level of practice required may be so absurdly high no one bothers, but it's still true. This is just the nature of games with predictable behavior.

For games with unpredictable randomness, such as FTL, even then there is usually a "best play" method that is statistical in nature and players usually figure it out (often incredibly tedious). Some games combine the two.

So for me any challenge in ED must come from either BGS manipulation (which is indirect PvP) or combat. I find the former tedious and opaque - thus it's pew pew pew for me.

 

[Riverside]

I would guess it's pretty essential for players who want to get seriously into PvP, or... er, ganking. As we know, by means of engineering, combat ships can be made extremely powerful, there are a variety of options which can be used in different ways. If you don't do it, you can't compete successfully in that world. Keep on atoning for those transgressions Feros!

You mean all those players that complain about other people cheating? Those players?

 

[Zoltah-Talion]

You mean all those players that complain about other people cheating? Those players?

Yes, I'm afraid so! *shrug*

 

[Exiton]

When was the last time you flew in anything other than an invulnerable tank? There are lots of ships for many different types of gameplay - don't complain because you have one which bores you.

Earlier in the week, I had a minor crash on a planet with only 1.4g, and it still took out my shields and reduced my hull to 13%, because I'm in an Aspx kitted out for exploration. And if that happened after months in the black, rather than only a couple of days (and it has before), I'd absolutely see that as a degree of peril meaningful in my enjoyment of the game.

That's not to say there shouldn't be other risks - a greater threat in low security systems is something I've always supported, even though I'm not a combat pilot - but to say that there's no threat because you've chosen a path that eliminates threat isn't helpful or accurate.

Exactly the type of prey NPC pirates should be jumping. You don't reasonably expect them to think: "this guy is fitted for exploration, it would be unfair to attack him with our wing of 4 FdLs, let's attack this other player in battle-fitted Corvette"?

But in this game NPC pirates are so pathetically inept they won't even be able to interdict you to begin with, and the simplest "boost-boost-jump" tactic will completely incapacitate their attempted attack.

For that reason people are flying such glorious fits. They are viable in solo. Just think about it for a second. "Cutthroat galaxy", riiiiight.

 

[RolloTreadway]

Exactly the type of prey NPC pirates should be jumping. You don't reasonably expect them to think: "this guy is fitted for exploration, it would be unfair to attack him with our wing of 4 FdLs, let's attack this other player in battle-fitted Corvette"?

But in this game NPC pirates are so pathetically inept they won't even be able to interdict you to begin with, and the simplest "boost-boost-jump" tactic will completely incapacitate their attempted attack.

For that reason people are flying such glorious fits. They are viable in solo. Just think about it for a second. "Cutthroat galaxy", riiiiight.

I think the main reason NPCs don't jump me is I'm usually at least 20,000Ly away from them.

 

[Dirtbird]

Here's one for the pure explorer - Space Engine. It brings beautiful graphics, a tremendously low price and insta-travel and time control. And from what I read, no danger (esp. no griefers, gankers, bankers or spankers) either, but it still flying a spaceship or wandering around a world. I'm sure someone will build a multiplayer version one day, and perhaps it will have no guns.

So, what would we think about having to equip radiation shields of some sort, or having to build them into regular shields so that you can slowly or quickly die if they fail, and you're by something that gives off a crapton of radiation, say perhaps a neutron star? Or even the ability to equip redundant systems so that while you're 30,000 Ly away and wear and tear causes performance degradation of your ship's modules, you can switch to backups while digging through your cargo hold full of spare parts to restore operation to your primaries? And perhaps having to land on planets to gather materials to craft replacement spare parts... oops, forgot to download the plans! Oh dear. I'd totally forgo much of the rest of the game if exploration was like that and become an explorer. Beats figuring out whether tinfoil or aluminium foil makes your foil "paper" plane go further with each throw.

And if you don't wan't all that, there's Space Engine

Ah well, one can dream. If someone made a game like that, I'd be there like a shot and most probably forget this one.

 

[Schmack]

One word. Long range scanners. Technically that's three words but what the heck. I don't care for the firefly effect of ships in supercruise, it is what it is. Besides as "prey" you will be able to see everyone converging on your position. You have 15 seconds to log out, or jump away.

Another point. More competent AI only in places that demand it. As in, dangerous-to-travel systems or the police in high security systems. If you take a mission to assassinate a Mostly Harmless guy in a Sidewinder, they should be exactly that. And the pay should match. No need to make everyone ridiculously dangerous.

Being able to see it means I am made part of the event even if I didn't want to be. Do people want more realism or just a harder path?

It doesn't make sense that you could jump to ANY system and be interdicted seconds after you enter the system. If anything, a ship might get a long range signal that you are within x number of light seconds, and then decide if they want to go looking for you. Running silent for just an instance should basically mean you no longer exist to that ship. The jumping in/out could create such a disruption that sensors can detect it, but a ship that small in an entire system the size of Sol should not A) show up like a firefly in the night and B) not register on sensors as a ship at all at that distance. In fact, only really large and powerful detection systems on planets and moons should be able to detect small objects at that distance, nothing should get instantaneous return signals of something moving FTL, and the signal itself exceeds the speed of the ship.

But it's a game, so we have these things to make it playable. If you've ever played a fighter sim and set your scaling to real sizes, you probably couldn't see your own wingman much of the time. So we need to be able to actually play the game and interact with AI and each other without spending hours hoping to cross someone's path at the right time. I get that. However asking for systems to be more aggressive seems like wanting less realism, when in reality the odds of being lost in any one system should outweigh the odds of being interdicted by billions to one.

 

[leeG]

Elite is a big sandbox where you can pick and choose what features to interact with and which features to ignore. I think it’s a genius design because it accommodates so many different play styles. You really can play the way you want.

I’m here for the Milky Way Galaxy, the eye candy and to putter about in my spaceships. Don’t need or want an adrenaline rush or contrived danger. I originally didn’t consider the game because I thought it was just pew pew. Turns out it’s more than that. I’ve enjoyed the game for over two years now flying my unarmed ships trading, mining and exploring. Actually, I’ve barely scratched the surface of what the game offers.

Risk and danger are interesting things. I have an aviation background and play the game as simulation. In aviation we go to great lengths to minimize risk. I play the game the same way. I trade in high and medium security systems, stay out of combat zones and do my mining off by myself in the ring after the npc have all sniffed about and left. I’m playing to relax and enjoy the scenery. It’s my style of play and the game accommodates it.

The OP’s style of play is different from mine. I’m all in favor of changes to give him the risk and danger he craves, so long I’m not forced into changing my play style. So rather than the “game needs to impose itself upon the player,” I support the sandbox being expanded and refined so a player can impose himself upon the game. How much risk and danger one encounters is determined by each commander’s own informed actions and decisions.

So yes, as a minimum the system security level programming needs to be reworked so it really means something. I’m also in favor of adding new features like space “weather” to the game. This would include Galnet forecasts plus a display on the radar showing local conditions that would allow a commander to route around or through the heavy stuff. Each commander chooses their own path and the risk his choice entails. Those sorts of things.

 

[Dirtbird]

However asking for systems to be more aggressive seems like wanting less realism, when in reality the odds of being lost in any one system should outweigh the odds of being interdicted by billions to one.

There are things you do for gameplay and things you do for verisimilitude. We already have enough unrealistic things but they're necessary for the game. FSD? Speed limits when FA off? Crashing ships doesn't cause serious damage?

If you want the realism of not being able to see anyone when you jump in, there's Space Engine. I hear the graphics are really good and you can't get blown up because there's nobody else there. However there is time travel. Explore a procedurally generated universe with no danger.

Elite is the game you seem to prefer the exact way it is, you've already got that. I simply find that game's sociopolitical structure and therefore the premise of risk, or lack of it ridiculous.

 

[Rat Catcher]

There are things you do for gameplay and things you do for verisimilitude. We already have enough unrealistic things but they're necessary for the game. FSD? Speed limits when FA off? Crashing ships doesn't cause serious damage?

If you want the realism of not being able to see anyone when you jump in, there's Space Engine. I hear the graphics are really good and you can't get blown up because there's nobody else there. However there is time travel. Explore a procedurally generated universe with no danger.

Elite is the game you seem to prefer the exact way it is, you've already got that. I simply find that game's sociopolitical structure and therefore the premise of risk, or lack of it ridiculous.

I could suggest a game called Space Engine.... obviously ED doesn't provide you with the versimilitude you require

 

[Dirtbird]

I could suggest a game called Space Engine.... obviously ED doesn't provide you with the versimilitude you require

I dunno, the lack of anything except sightseeing is what puts me off. I'm sure I could get great pictures though.

 

[PANTHER STARFORCE]

Everything in this game is too forgiving.

I recommend trying to engineer something...

Or craft a guardian module...

Or try and find a commodity or module at a station without using a community-created tool...

Or try to find G5 materials without consulting the forums first to figure out where to actually find them or what exploit you need to cheese to have a %5 chance of finding them...

Or grind for DUKE so you can buy a Cutter only to figure out that you can be killed by a skilled PVP player in under 14 seconds in one rendering the "end-game" absolutely worthless.

*insert additional routine activity here*

Everything about Elite is an absolutely savage flogging.

 

[zimms]

The things you listed aren't hard to accomplish. They are just tedious.

 

[PANTHER STARFORCE]

The things you listed aren't hard to accomplish. They are just tedious.

Not about whether they are 'hard' or not. Tedium is an imposition. In addition to sophomoric design masking a lack of content and narrative driven objectives and engagement.

 

[Vorxian]

A few days earlier, helping at an outbreak system....


Present day:


Pew pew pew... pew pew..

Pew pew pew, pew, pew pew pew pew pew pew pew....

Message then appears:

Sorry, you have contracted Eravate bonopneumonia and will die in ... 8... 7... 6... 5...

4....3....2....1....

 

[Han Zulu]

I've never get it when ppl here say "fly safe cmdr", i mean what else can i do!

It means "be careful".

Just like when friends and family come over and when they leave you say, "drive safe."

 

[Deleted member 115407]

Elite is a big sandbox where you can pick and choose what features to interact with and which features to ignore. I think it’s a genius design because it accommodates so many different play styles. You really can play the way you want.

I’m here for the Milky Way Galaxy, the eye candy and to putter about in my spaceships. Don’t need or want an adrenaline rush or contrived danger. I originally didn’t consider the game because I thought it was just pew pew. Turns out it’s more than that. I’ve enjoyed the game for over two years now flying my unarmed ships trading, mining and exploring. Actually, I’ve barely scratched the surface of what the game offers.

Risk and danger are interesting things. I have an aviation background and play the game as simulation. In aviation we go to great lengths to minimize risk. I play the game the same way. I trade in high and medium security systems, stay out of combat zones and do my mining off by myself in the ring after the npc have all sniffed about and left. I’m playing to relax and enjoy the scenery. It’s my style of play and the game accommodates it.

The OP’s style of play is different from mine. I’m all in favor of changes to give him the risk and danger he craves, so long I’m not forced into changing my play style. So rather than the “game needs to impose itself upon the player,” I support the sandbox being expanded and refined so a player can impose himself upon the game. How much risk and danger one encounters is determined by each commander’s own informed actions and decisions.

So yes, as a minimum the system security level programming needs to be reworked so it really means something. I’m also in favor of adding new features like space “weather” to the game. This would include Galnet forecasts plus a display on the radar showing local conditions that would allow a commander to route around or through the heavy stuff. Each commander chooses their own path and the risk his choice entails. Those sorts of things.

I 'perciate this feller's response.

I have no desire to take peaceful spaceshipping away from people. As I've said, Medium security should provide relative safety, High security almost guaranteed.

And again, combat and death aren't the only way a game can impose itself on the player.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

I recommend trying to engineer something...

Or craft a guardian module...

Or try and find a commodity or module at a station without using a community-created tool...

Or try to find G5 materials without consulting the forums first to figure out where to actually find them or what exploit you need to cheese to have a %5 chance of finding them...

Or grind for DUKE so you can buy a Cutter only to figure out that you can be killed by a skilled PVP player in under 14 seconds in one rendering the "end-game" absolutely worthless.

*insert additional routine activity here*

Everything about Elite is an absolutely savage flogging.

The things you listed aren't hard to accomplish. They are just tedious.

What Zimms said.

Tedium and repetition are not the kind of "imposition" I'm talking about.

I'm talking about a dog that makes you work to pet it, rather than just rolling over and showing you its belly.

 

[Kaocraft]

Yeah it's a shame that Elite was designed for the kind of people that lose their mind with every setback. Elite is a safe bland grinding game because that's the only type of experience the playerbase will tolerate. Most of them won't even go on Reddit because they can't countenance the existence of a downvote button.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

Yeah it's a shame that Elite was designed for the kind of people that lose their mind with every setback. Elite is a safe bland grinding game because that's the only type of experience the playerbase will tolerate. Most of them won't even go on Reddit because they can't countenance the existence of a downvote button.

Until a PvPer steps in and offers them some good advice. Then they find the downvote button real quick-like.