The C&P system is fine, but only works when it's not interfered with. The weak link in this chain is Frontier support.
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Crime & Punishment feature useless?
- Thread starter Martind Forlon
- Start date
You could tell us how on earth you have only 300 million (?) in the bank in the time of void opals.
That was the most shocking for me
Its better than it was and the ATR stuff is cool but it's still too easy to commit crimes in high security systems. The punishments need to be more severe that you cannot dock in certain system or us certain features. Personally think engineer bases should be no PvP and weapons should be disabled there.
C&P needs more features rather than just being crime fines or a rating that doesn't do a lot.
C&P needs more features rather than just being crime fines or a rating that doesn't do a lot.
Well here is my point of view as someone who knows more about the C&P system than even Fdev it would seem, I will start with some basic questions I think people would ask, if any has anything specific they want to ask feel free.
Q. Does C&P deter ganking or unlawful killing?
A. Yes but it will only deter though who struggle to survive the harsh environment having a bounty creates, though the system does not deter ganking in smaller ships like a Clipper or Dropship as the rebuy is based on the difference, Personally I strip my ships down to the absolute minimum needed to pull off a gank.
Q. Does ATR good a good enough job
A. ATR is silly and OP, instead of having this god like power ships dropping in just give them normal weapons like we can get and drop them in more often, currently ATR is just a system to get the player to leave an instance but the issue with that is... we are already done by the time ATR arrives.
Q. How could ATR be improved
A. Reduce their power to what every player can get, station guns are not fun... drop them into a fight more often as I said but also improve their flight patterns, make them more human like. An NPC making a human like error will bait us into cashing that in..
Q. Does having a 450m bounty do anything?
A. No, it makes the fights more thrilling for sure knowing you could lose it all if you mess up but as I found out... even with a 450m bounty and not enough to pay it the C&P System makes it super hard to lose the ship.
Frontier should also remove the 2m cap on bountys and give us a system to track those with bountys... I would also LOVE if players could pay to put a bounty on another player, the player with the bounty wouldn't pay it but the money the other players put on that player would be given to the killers, working the same way as EVE's bounty system.
Q. Does C&P deter ganking or unlawful killing?
A. Yes but it will only deter though who struggle to survive the harsh environment having a bounty creates, though the system does not deter ganking in smaller ships like a Clipper or Dropship as the rebuy is based on the difference, Personally I strip my ships down to the absolute minimum needed to pull off a gank.
Q. Does ATR good a good enough job
A. ATR is silly and OP, instead of having this god like power ships dropping in just give them normal weapons like we can get and drop them in more often, currently ATR is just a system to get the player to leave an instance but the issue with that is... we are already done by the time ATR arrives.
Q. How could ATR be improved
A. Reduce their power to what every player can get, station guns are not fun... drop them into a fight more often as I said but also improve their flight patterns, make them more human like. An NPC making a human like error will bait us into cashing that in..
Q. Does having a 450m bounty do anything?
A. No, it makes the fights more thrilling for sure knowing you could lose it all if you mess up but as I found out... even with a 450m bounty and not enough to pay it the C&P System makes it super hard to lose the ship.
Frontier should also remove the 2m cap on bountys and give us a system to track those with bountys... I would also LOVE if players could pay to put a bounty on another player, the player with the bounty wouldn't pay it but the money the other players put on that player would be given to the killers, working the same way as EVE's bounty system.
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C&P has proven more of an annoyance to me in my clean ships than it has when I've deliberately set out to do a murder.
My PvE 'vette had a 100cr reckless fire fine on it for like the last week from a wing assassination where I hit one of the escorts before I'd scanned them (thank god that doesn't count as assault any more) and I just couldn't be bothered docking in that system to pay it off and the nearest IF with a large pad was a planetary and I wasn't headed to that system and ugh.
Meanwhile when I head out to deliberately kill some chump to death I do it in my "kill some chump to death" ship and Robert's your mother's brother, I'll get around to cleaning it sometime whenever.
My PvE 'vette had a 100cr reckless fire fine on it for like the last week from a wing assassination where I hit one of the escorts before I'd scanned them (thank god that doesn't count as assault any more) and I just couldn't be bothered docking in that system to pay it off and the nearest IF with a large pad was a planetary and I wasn't headed to that system and ugh.
Meanwhile when I head out to deliberately kill some chump to death I do it in my "kill some chump to death" ship and Robert's your mother's brother, I'll get around to cleaning it sometime whenever.
This is because the bounty system is an inconvenience system, this is the reason it has little effect on my type of play... I am grinder I come from Korean MMOs, I know grind, I know inconvenience and I learnt to just suck it up and deal with it long ago so no amount of time wasting mechanics is going to stop me murdering nerds over an engineers base, meanwhile those with limited time foot the bill for this type of system. the PVP community suggested a really good alternative to what we have today that would reward both lawful and criminal playstyles but frontier seem unwilling to implement such systems.
The thing is, they have the whole concept of notoriety and recognising when a murder has been done, they have the concept of "fine added to bounty" to keep things stacking, and they had the concept of small bounties decaying into fines (well, "legacy fines" that nobody ever paid) with a timer that reset if you continued to do crimes.
The whole "hot ships" and "clean ships" thing is neat but again massively abusable since it basically lets you cop-kill in solo/private to rack up a massive bounty then switch to open in a clean ship and proceed to taunt whatever player group you're hassling with "hee hee, I'm the guy who's been trashing your system but my bounty's on my other ship where you can't get it plus you'll get a bounty if you shoot me" while still being able to run missions unimpeded in whatever system you've been doing crimes.
If kill-warrant scanners could detect local bounties against the CMDR regardless of ship (and have authority ships act accordingly, forcing you to run in smuggler-mode in places where you're lying low) and minor, non-murder bounties of the "make it legal for someone you just shot to shoot you back" variety such as assault or trespass decayed into fines after a short while as long as you didn't actually commit murder, C&P would be in a much better place IMO
I agree, the old system was better for the most part though we do have some gems in this version, personally when we first got this version I liked it because I could KWS random players and legally kill them because they have a bounty SOMWHERE and that's kinda the point of the KWS but like everything fun it got nerfed and well I get to go back to ganking people for free instead of playing the assassin bounty hunter role I want to.
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Great point. The brief period of time when the KWS functioned that way was a real stand-out period in ED that I enjoyed immensely
Would be grand if it went back to that!
Deleted member 115407
D
Yeah. KWS sucks now. It was so much fun working the way it did when the new C&P hit.
Bounty hunting actually became a thing for once.
How does your assertion follow from what he said? I think full liability for your bounty would work fine. Remember that you can always switch ships if one gets too hot.
The best is when you can bounty hunt the friends you play with. Especially if their bounties are uncapped.
Deleted member 115407
D
It makes a difference? Credits flow like water in this game now.
Friends don't let friends fly around with even a 500 credit bounty. Kindest thing you can do is find the quickest way to send them back to the station to pay it off so it's not there to bother them anymore.
It makes a difference, which is why bounties are capped in the first place. No amount of gaslighting the devs pretending to want to roleplay bounty hunters will change that either.
What I don't get about this is the following:
CMDR X (call him Jason) racks up 100 million in bounties.
CMDR Y (call him Maec) kills him for the bounty.
Maec gets 100 million in bounties and is happy.
Jason is down 100 million in bounties. He either has to pay them from his account or loses his invincible gankboat OR he can use a not-so-much engineered gankboat and propably isn't as sad, but runs the risk of losing his gankboat more often.
I don't see the money-making exploit in this ?!
Sure, you can rack up 1000 million in bounties, but depending on which ship you use it would be difficult to get as far (bounties are tied to ship value, so a high-cost Cutter racks up a lot of bounties faster than a FdL).
And I can see some adjustments to C&P to counter that, for example by having to pay the bounty before forfeiting a ship,
basically you'd have to sell all you have before you're allowed to start with a freewinder.
(Any similarity to persons living or dead is purely coincidental, and I wouldn't be able to gank Jason anyways
)
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Player A racks up huge bountiesWhat I don't get about this is the following:
CMDR X (call him Jason) racks up 100 million in bounties.
CMDR Y (call him Maec) kills him for the bounty.
Maec gets 100 million in bounties and is happy.
Jason is down 100 million in bounties. He either has to pay them from his account or loses his invincible gankboat OR he can use a not-so-much engineered gankboat and propably isn't as sad, but runs the risk of losing his gankboat more often.
I don't see the money-making exploit in this ?!
Sure, you can rack up 1000 million in bounties, but depending on which ship you use it would be difficult to get as far (bounties are tied to ship value, so a high-cost Cutter racks up a lot of bounties faster than a FdL).
And I can see some adjustments to C&P to counter that, for example by having to pay the bounty before forfeiting a ship,
basically you'd have to sell all you have before you're allowed to start with a freewinder.
(Any similarity to persons living or dead is purely coincidental, and I wouldn't be able to gank Jason anyways
Player B kills Player A and cashes in those bounties
Player A resets account
Repeat
What do you mean by reset?
Arguendo
Volunteer Moderator
The exploit comes along when the rebuy of the ship is lower than the bounty accrued. You don't have to be in a 100M rebuy ship to rack up a 100M bounty when killing other players, it just helps the process. Cheap targets will create a higher bounty faster. So basically, the exploit would promote killing other players in sideys. You can do the math from there
Or just make the bounty cap at the wanted ship's rebuy. That makes it a zero sum game. Player can never receive more than the other player loses.