General / Off-Topic GTA5's Rockstar Games publisher Take Two is trying to end modding

[Ramm]

I am having a bad dream and I cant wake up so I thought i'd share here.

https://www.reddit.com/r/GrandTheftAutoV/comments/6ha1f0/openiv_discontinued/
http://gtaforums.com/topic/889348-take-two-vs-modding

I thought i'd share this discussion here because personally I have been waiting for Planet Coaster mods for quite some time. This news is unsettling and may be even dangerous for pc games in general so it may be good to spark a discussion here if that means we could maybe read from Frontier again what their vision about mods is. Since I (and some others) mention mods here sometimes but never get a clear response about it it may be good to talk about it once more. Like are they still working on it, don't they want it anymore or is it somewhere on the backburner?

What do you think about this news though? I think it's absolutely and utter absurd. And as you can see on Reddit, Gtaforums and everywhere else on the internet luckely most people that still have a heart for games agree. Modding is a big part of playing PC games and without it there isn't even any reason for replayability or having the superior system that allows for total freedom when playing games.

Just image what Cities Skylines or Garry's Mod (two of the most purchased and played games on Steam) would be without mods. I cant even start to imagine it.

How can a company go so wrong? [cry] Isn't there any love for PC gaming anymore? Please Frontier never go down this path yourselves, we're begging you [heart]

 

[Chao]

Don't they disallow mods because people use them to cheat online? I'm not entirely up to speed on this issue with GTA V but I remember playing it online on PS3, which was plagued with cheaters.

 

[Spanky]

I'm sure we wouldn't play Planet Coaster without the old RCT3 and his mods. Without the possiblities of modding RCT3 with custom scenery, rides, coasters, tracks etc. the game had never survided over 10 years.

I think the next version of GTA will not sell very well after this statement. If a company will ruin themself that's the best way.

 

[Jammy3112]

Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who are blaming Rockstar for this. It is in fact not them, and is instead Take Two.

Recently, GTA V has been hit with a tidal wave of negative reviews on Steam, causing Rockstar to put out a statement. It is as follows:

"Take-Two's actions were not specifically targeting single player mods. Unfortunately OpenIV enables recent malicious mods that allow harassment of players and interfere with the GTA Online experience for everybody. We are working to figure out how we can continue to support the creative community without negatively impacting our players."

OpenIV have a policy for not using their software to go after online play. But obviously have little control over when modders become hackers and use their software for attacking online.

For me, the way to go about this, would be that Rockstar & Take Two notify OpenIV that their software is being used to bring harm to the online community, let them know the gaps that need filling, and they work alongside OpenIV to crack down on those use mods in the online portion of the game. This would still then allow players to continue the single player modding.
This would particularly solve the last line of the Rockstar quote:

We are working to figure out how we can continue to support the creative community without negatively impacting our players.

 

[Empo]

Anti cheat is very hard to program. *glares at Dark Souls 3*

 

[LN]

Yeah, GTA Online has been flooded by "hackers" so I totally understand why they don't want that.

I still believe that whenever a game developer does not wants his game modded he can take whatever measures he likes and it should be accepted as it is. Me in no sense find this action absurd or anything like ti. It was just a matter of time till this would happen.

Unfortunately it has come to an point where Take 2 has taken the necessary steps. I have been avoiding GTA Online for a while now because of this.

What will this mean in the case of GTA, probably the end of modding for the next releases I bet.

What will it mean for other games? Well it depends upon the nature of the game.
In an online environment where money means progress and this progress is sped up by mods it takes away the fun of other players. Whilst it in an non-online environment only benefits one player and gives no disadvantages to others. Then its basically just an ordinary cheat like the cheat codes we had in the past.

I believe Planet Coaster is perfectly suited for (some kind of) modding. Though tools need to be made available to make this happen in the right way. And that is in the hands of Frontier. Will they release parts of the code? who knows?
If they will I think it will be at the end of the development of this game when updates will become less and less.

I'm sure we wouldn't play Planet Coaster without the old RCT3 and his mods. Without the possiblities of modding RCT3 with custom scenery, rides, coasters, tracks etc. the game had never survided over 10 years.

I think the next version of GTA will not sell very well after this statement. If a company will ruin themself that's the best way.

Frontier stated somewhere they have always been looking into ways of developing an new RCT game but they never did it because they where waiting till hardware improved so they could really make the next step for theme park games.

And I cannot and will not believe that sales will drop. On the first day it brought in $ 800.000.000,00 so I cannot believe they will actually be worried about that.

And I bet enough gamers (including me) don't even use mods.

 

[Ramm]

Don't they disallow mods because people use them to cheat online? I'm not entirely up to speed on this issue with GTA V but I remember playing it online on PS3, which was plagued with cheaters.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who are blaming Rockstar for this. It is in fact not them, and is instead Take Two.

Recently, GTA V has been hit with a tidal wave of negative reviews on Steam, causing Rockstar to put out a statement. It is as follows:



OpenIV have a policy for not using their software to go after online play. But obviously have little control over when modders become hackers and use their software for attacking online.

For me, the way to go about this, would be that Rockstar & Take Two notify OpenIV that their software is being used to bring harm to the online community, let them know the gaps that need filling, and they work alongside OpenIV to crack down on those use mods in the online portion of the game. This would still then allow players to continue the single player modding.
This would particularly solve the last line of the Rockstar quote:

No this is about singleplayer mods. Multiplayer mods are memory injection hacks while openIV is used for adding vehicles etc and mostly work clientsided anyway.

You cant even use OpenIV online.

Pretty sure Rockstar and Take Two know the difference.

 

[Chao]

After watching Jim Sterling's video about the issue, it seems Take Two is the sole perpetrator here, and their logic behind this makes zero sense. Rockstar has stated in the past that they are supportive of mods.

 

[bambule]

I hope that it won't effect the community in a negative way. It's one of the best games ever, wouldn't want to see it going down.

 

[Ramm]

After watching Jim Sterling's video about the issue, it seems Take Two is the sole perpetrator here, and their logic behind this makes zero sense. Rockstar has stated in the past that they are supportive of mods.

All Take Two cares about is money.

They actually have seen they can charge people 10s of dollars or even 100 dollars for virtual currency aka Shark Cards. So kids buy golden supercar skins with their parents creditcards. They earn so much money on this. This is also the reason they completely cancelled any plans for singleplayer DLC (this was proven about 3 weeks ago).

So as long people are stupid enough to pay for skins they have no reason to give you freedom back with singleplayer mods. But they do this on a level that nobody thought was possible, actually trying to make modding illegal. It's good to see what it does to all the steam reviews though. Luckely there are still pc gamers left with love for games and mods. Also enough companies that still care about mods like the people of Cities Skylines. This kinda gives me hope we will still get mods for Planet Coaster too one day.

 

[Chems]

Lol. Rockstar's reason is absolute ❤︎❤︎❤︎❤︎❤︎❤︎❤︎❤︎. You cannot open GTA online with openIV......................................... Cheaters will cheat, and killing of a single player modding tool will do absolutely nothing to prevent that. I bet it will make it even worse because now people don't care anymore and more people will cheat.

GTA 5 reviews are already 'mixed' on steam now. [haha][haha][haha][haha]

 

[Periocus]

All Take Two cares about is money.

They actually have seen they can charge people 10s of dollars or even 100 dollars for virtual currency aka Shark Cards. So kids buy golden supercar skins with their parents creditcards. They earn so much money on this. This is also the reason they completely cancelled any plans for singleplayer DLC (this was proven about 3 weeks ago).

So as long people are stupid enough to pay for skins they have no reason to give you freedom back with singleplayer mods. But they do this on a level that nobody thought was possible, actually trying to make modding illegal. It's good to see what it does to all the steam reviews though. Luckely there are still pc gamers left with love for games and mods. Also enough companies that still care about mods like the people of Cities Skylines. This kinda gives me hope we will still get mods for Planet Coaster too one day.

That is what companies normally do. Earn money and most of the time they have to earn more every year. If people pay that price the only answer is "Because they can." i guess.

 

[Ramm]

That is what companies normally do. Earn money and most of the time they have to earn more every year. If people pay that price the only answer is "Because they can." i guess.

Yeah so really those kids are to blame or their parents because they pay it. [sulk]

 

[AUS_Twisted]

[snipped due to discussing piracy]

As far as mods go games like Euro / American Truck Sim and ArmA do a far better job as the developers actually support them plus you don't need to use any external tools to use them (only if you want to make your own mods / addons)

 

[SydVic]

I've never used mods in GTA 5 - but I also think it's pretty unnecessary to ban mod suport for the Single-Player... but besides that, all the whining kiddies who spam the steam reviews are ridiculous, too. GTA 5 is a great game - with or without mods... and all the "I will never ever buy a Rockstar Game. Boycott them!" are ridiculous too. From what I've learned, gamers are the most inconsequential people out there - they will never boykott anything.

 

[Chems]

I've never used mods in GTA 5 - but I also think it's pretty unnecessary to ban mod suport for the Single-Player... but besides that, all the whining kiddies who spam the steam reviews are ridiculous, too. GTA 5 is a great game - with or without mods... and all the "I will never ever buy a Rockstar Game. Boycott them!" are ridiculous too. From what I've learned, gamers are the most inconsequential people out there - they will never boykott anything.

Yah the game itself is great but the people behind it deserve whats happening. People are getting enough of being ❤︎❤︎❤︎❤︎❤︎❤︎ over by greedy publishers and rightly so. But you're right, no one is actually going to stop buying Rockstar games. . .

 

[Ramm]

Yah the game itself is great but the people behind it deserve whats happening. People are getting enough of being ❤︎❤︎❤︎❤︎❤︎❤︎ over by greedy publishers and rightly so. But you're right, no one is actually going to stop buying Rockstar games. . .

At least it does send a message and helps spread awareness. I kinda feel like the love for pc gaming is dying out a bit sometimes. Maybe due to the smartphone, tablet or console era, I dont know. Things like modding always was the reason that PC was the superior platform and it's sad to see everything getting dumbed down and limited to console, smartphone and tablet- tier levels. More freedom in games is just so important. Of course you still have those people who say: "Why would you mod dont you like the game how it is?" but luckely most of those are just trolls I hope. Seeing the steam discussions and the reviews actually gave me a bit of hope that there are still people around that actually care about fun and freedom in games and i'm happy about that.

Back then you had to be a bit of nerd to play pc games. [big grin] I remember googling when I was young trying to get mods to work for hours and when it finally worked the joy you got was immensly great. Now people are just lazy or something or they don't want to learn anymore or don't care I don't know what it is.

 

[Chems]

Oh man, those were the days.. It's a shame more and more games are getting dumbed down. In the end, without a bit of complexity and challenge, games just end up boring for me. Even in Planet Coaster you see signs of this. Take the new sequencer for instance, removing the timeline, or of course the coaster builder.