General / Off-Topic Lets discuss that "other" game that had a Beta twitch stream yesterday.

[Harbinger]

It's a good thing that Atari have chosen to delay until early 2016 but I still think it'll be too early for them to go to full release. Most people believe that when Nvizzio came in (apparently February 2015) they essentially started the whole project from scratch, at best they probably had a few assets from the Pipeworks/Area52 era that could be modified and imported into Unity.

I expect Atari will want to go live no later than February due to Planet Coaster's alpha testing starting in March. That being the case Nvizzio will only have had a year in developing the game and they have a much smaller team than Frontier (who aren't even going to full release until Q4 2016). Even with the delay RCTW will be a hollow shell of a game compared to it's predecessors.

Atari's whole strategy is wrong, they need to at least match the feature-set of the prequels at release as all but their most devoted customers will expect this from a RCT game. Atari should make the game Early Access, this will allow them to sell the game at a reduced price and receive income & feedback from the community without the stigmata of final release reviews which (lets be honest here) will absolutely slaughter them for releasing a minimalist version with promises that they'll add the missing things after release. If the game is not a success does anyone really think that Atari will continue funding it in order to meet these "free update" promises?

Atari's main problem is that they're terrified of Planet Coaster taking all their potential sales so they're rushing to release and banking on brand recognition to drive the sales. Brand recognition will only carry them so far, if the game is universally slated due to being a hollow shell of the previous games then it will only hurt their sales in the long run.

It really doesn't need to be an "Us vs. Them" situation, many fans of the genre will buy both games. Atari need to rethink their entire strategy, take their time and release a sequel worthy of carrying the RollerCoaster Tycoon name rather than rushing out a cash grab version which will destroy their reputation irreparably.

 

[SPRidley]

It's a good thing that Atari have chosen to delay until early 2016 but I still think it'll be too early for them to go to full release. Most people believe that when Nvizzio came in (apparently February 2015) they essentially started the whole project from scratch, at best they probably had a few assets from the Pipeworks/Area52 era that could be modified and imported into Unity.

I expect Atari will want to go live no later than February due to Planet Coaster's alpha testing starting in March. That being the case Nvizzio will only have had a year in developing the game and they have a much smaller team than Frontier (who aren't even going to full release until Q4 2016). Even with the delay RCTW will be a hollow shell of a game compared to it's predecessors.

Atari's whole strategy is wrong, they need to at least match the feature-set of the prequels at release as all but their most devoted customers will expect this from a RCT game. Atari should make the game Early Access, this will allow them to sell the game at a reduced price and receive income & feedback from the community without the stigmata of final release reviews which (lets be honest here) will absolutely slaughter them for releasing a minimalist version with promises that they'll add the missing things after release. If the game is not a success does anyone really think that Atari will continue funding it in order to meet these "free update" promises?

Atari's main problem is that they're terrified of Planet Coaster taking all their potential sales so they're rushing to release and banking on brand recognition to drive the sales. Brand recognition will only carry them so far, if the game is universally slated due to being a hollow shell of the previous games then it will only hurt their sales in the long run.

It really doesn't need to be an "Us vs. Them" situation, many fans of the genre will buy both games. Atari need to rethink their entire strategy, take their time and release a sequel worthy of carrying the RollerCoaster Tycoon name rather than rushing out a cash grab version which will destroy their reputation irreparably.

While what you said would totally be true for a a normal and intelligent company, we are talking about Atari here, that is not really a company, but a shell of itself.
When they originally added the 2015 date, they didnt know that Planet Coaster was going to exist. It was done becuase RCTW was the only "big" game that they were hoping was going to give them sufficient money (apart from the mobile piece of crap) to not fall apart again before the fiscal year ended.
Thats why they are nor delaying more than March of 2016, even if the game really needs it. The game NEEDS to be out before the fiscal year ends.
They have been selling crap done by cheap studios and with little dev time during this last year to try to see if something sticked using old atari franchises like alone in the dark (hoping to sell only for nostalgia).
Is ridiculous how the company is still a zombie and doesnt die. Some of their franchises would be in better hands with other devs.

 

[RandyChimp]

While what you said would totally be true for a a normal and intelligent company, we are talking about Atari here, that is not really a company, but a shell of itself.
When they originally added the 2015 date, they didnt know that Planet Coaster was going to exist. It was done becuase RCTW was the only "big" game that they were hoping was going to give them sufficient money (apart from the mobile piece of crap) to not fall apart again before the fiscal year ended.
Thats why they are nor delaying more than March of 2016, even if the game really needs it. The game NEEDS to be out before the fiscal year ends.
They have been selling crap done by cheap studios and with little dev time during this last year to try to see if something sticked using old atari franchises like alone in the dark (hoping to sell only for nostalgia).
Is ridiculous how the company is still a zombie and doesnt die. Some of their franchises would be in better hands with other devs.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again; Atari seems content with just slapping the name "RCT" onto a quickly thrown together game so they can make a quick buck. THREE DEVELOPERS! That's insane. This is a company that released that first abysmal trailer, happily thinking fans would lap it up just because they called it a Rollercoaster Tycoon game.

Mattlab backtracking constantly over things he's said or information that's come to light has been cringy enough. I don't want to give them my money at this point.

 

[SPRidley]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again; Atari seems content with just slapping the name "RCT" onto a quickly thrown together game so they can make a quick buck. THREE DEVELOPERS! That's insane. This is a company that released that first abysmal trailer, happily thinking fans would lap it up just because they called it a Rollercoaster Tycoon game.

Mattlab backtracking constantly over things he's said or information that's come to light has been cringy enough. I don't want to give them my money at this point.

Same here, really. Pipeworks was trying to do something interesting.
Well, thank god I have another option. I remember the days when RCTW was already looking bad and planet coaster (coaster park tycoon IIRC) was still not announced, and I thought Frontier was not going to try to make one, and then bam, Coaster Park Tycoon was announced silently and I was super happy.

I returned my preorder after the abysmal beta. Some people want to wait, but me, having worked in game development, now that the problems of that game are more than the bad spline coaster builder (much more) and that is nearly impossible to resolve them even with the delay. les than 1 year is not the way to build a simulation game as big as RCT.
The only thing that I actually liked was the menu music, that actually sound like the music you can hear at theme park entrances that i adore. Sadly I ddidnt record the music to upload to youtbe before returning it, and I cant find anyone having upload the track to youtube, to listen it again.

 

[Angelis1]

Same here, really. Pipeworks was trying to do something interesting.
Well, thank god I have another option. I remember the days when RCTW was already looking bad and planet coaster (coaster park tycoon IIRC) was still not announced, and I thought Frontier was not going to try to make one, and then bam, Coaster Park Tycoon was announced silently and I was super happy.

I returned my preorder after the abysmal beta. Some people want to wait, but me, having worked in game development, now that the problems of that game are more than the bad spline coaster builder (much more) and that is nearly impossible to resolve them even with the delay. les than 1 year is not the way to build a simulation game as big as RCT.
The only thing that I actually liked was the menu music, that actually sound like the music you can hear at theme park entrances that i adore. Sadly I ddidnt record the music to upload to youtbe before returning it, and I cant find anyone having upload the track to youtube, to listen it again.

Lucky you !

I played more than 2 hours, so I could not get a refund on Steam ! I wanted my money back, waiting to see if they improve the game, and buy it again if this is the case. But it's impossible (Steam refused my request)

So I'm waiting to see if I spend money for nothing ... or not.

 

[Coasterfan312]

My thoughts on it are pretty much synonymous with NerdCubed's. While he was a bit critical in some aspects, the problems it has don't seem like ones that will be fully fixed by release.

The coaster editor I think is abysmal in terms of any kind of realism. You can't make a straight anything. No coaster in the world has an S-shaped lift - it looks horrible.
Normally I'd get games like RCTW even if they aren't exactly what I want, but I don't think they really deserve my money with this one.

Edit: Just look at this. What is this.
(It's meant to be a Dive Coaster, from the Alienware stream)

Granted it's probably because the person playing clearly knows jack about coasters, but still. The fact that it's considered a working coaster is ridiculous.

 

[darkhorizon]

I think the issue is that the coaster editor is actually too powerful and flexible. We all think we want unlimited freedom but once we are presented with it, we realize it's too difficult to harness its power and our coasters end up looking like a string of spaghetti like the picture above. Spline-based coasters are very hard to balance when it comes to ease-of-use and flexibility. Theme Park Studio suffers from this as well. No Limits only does it well because it doesn't claim to be super user friendly and there is a steep learning curve, but once you learn it you get better results than RCTW/TPS. Also, because you design your coaster in a separate 2D application which makes it way easier to get perfect looking elements.

I think Parkitect found a decent balance between piece by piece coaster construction and spline editing. Coaster Crazy's editor is also quite powerful and I'm wondering if they are implementing an improved version of it for Planet Coaster.

 

[SPRidley]

Lucky you !

I played more than 2 hours, so I could not get a refund on Steam ! I wanted my money back, waiting to see if they improve the game, and buy it again if this is the case. But it's impossible (Steam refused my request)

So I'm waiting to see if I spend money for nothing ... or not.

Oh! Do you have fraps or some reconrding program? Would be cool to record the menu and upload a youtube video with the main theme, as I really liked that, but no one seems to have done it.

 

[Coasterfan312]

Even Parkitect can be a little fiddly when it comes to linking the end up, but yeah.
NoLimits 2 works, but that's way too complex for the average market.

 

[darkhorizon]

Even Parkitect can be a little fiddly when it comes to linking the end up, but yeah.
NoLimits 2 works, but that's way too complex for the average market.

Parkitect has some kinks to work out, but it was immediately recognizable and easy to understand since it's so similar to the classic building style of RCT. And I only brought up No Limits because I think RCTW is trying to make it as powerful but the issue is that the result will never look nearly as good unless they adopt the other complex mechanics of NL/NL2, which would be way too much to handle for the casual player which is their target demographic.

Basically my point is that they need to find some sort of system that is balanced on both fronts.

 

[Coasterfan312]

Oh, I didn't even realize you mentioned NL2, but yeah, that kind of editor only really works if you have it in full. I'd say Parkitect is the highest complexity you can get with a grid-based system before it gets too fiddly and awkward. Personally, as I think I said, I'd prefer if they went with something like NoLimits, but that wouldn't cater to most of the game's audience (and it'd probably make it too much like a simulation than a game, although I'd love that )

 

[Marvin1]

Lucky you !

I played more than 2 hours, so I could not get a refund on Steam ! I wanted my money back, waiting to see if they improve the game, and buy it again if this is the case. But it's impossible (Steam refused my request)

So I'm waiting to see if I spend money for nothing ... or not.

What?! I played 8 hours and I still got my refund! That sucks [sour]

 

[Harbinger]

Lucky you !

I played more than 2 hours, so I could not get a refund on Steam ! I wanted my money back, waiting to see if they improve the game, and buy it again if this is the case. But it's impossible (Steam refused my request)

So I'm waiting to see if I spend money for nothing ... or not.

I'm pretty sure you could dispute that decision Angelis. The game is not in early access, nor has it been released. It is a pre-order and as such the 2 hour refund rule is irrelevant.

What?! I played 8 hours and I still got my refund! That sucks [sour]

^ This

 

[Angelis1]

I'm pretty sure you could dispute that decision Angelis. The game is not in early access, nor has it been released. It is a pre-order and as such the 2 hour refund rule is irrelevant.

This is what Steam replied :

Translation :

We have reviewed your claim.
We are not able to refund this purchase on your
PayPal. The corresponding playing time is more than 2 hours
(maximum allowed by our refund policy).

 

[Harbinger]

This is what Steam replied :

http://i.imgur.com/4XTqwPS.png

Translation :

We have reviewed your claim.
We are not able to refund this purchase on your
PayPal. The corresponding playing time is more than 2 hours
(maximum allowed by our refund policy).

It's likely an automated response. Appeal it and quote their own refund guidelines back to them:

Refunds on Pre-Purchased Titles

When you pre-purchase a title on Steam (and have paid for the title in advance), you can request a refund at any time prior to release of that title. The standard 14-day/two-hour refund period also applies, starting on the game’s release date.

It is a pre-purchased title and as the game is not coming out until Early 2016 the fact that you have played over 2 hours ahead of this release date is irrelevant. You are entitled to a refund if you want one.

 

[TRG86]

It's likely an automated response. Appeal it and quote their own refund guidelines back to them:


It is a pre-purchased title and as the game is not coming out until Early 2016 the fact that you have played over 2 hours ahead of this release date is irrelevant. You are entitled to a refund if you want one.

+1 [up]

You were playing a BETA version of a game, not an early access or full release of the game. From a legal standpoint, you are still entitled to a refund even if you played for more than 2 hours. As Harbringer stated, that was probably an automated response. I suggest you speak with a support representative directly to resolve the issue with your refund and make sure to read their own policy statement back to them, it will show them that you are informed with your claim and they can't pull your leg as easily.

 

[illuminati]

Well I hope this game is optimised

 

[Helena]

First post, I came here when I saw how Frontier is active with information and it is actually shaping up to a nice game. I am oldtimer RCT player, since the demo version of RCT1. <3

I am feeling RCTW is stagnating. At least informationwise nothing new has happened since the PAX demo, to the game. Yes they are saying they will work on the bugs and have extended the release. But the game essentially looks the same since PAX. And it looks like empty shell of a game. Looks like they have put all their energy on the coaster editor and ignored everything else, and I think it is so in real too. While there are some lovely details, it is too generic feeling with too simple texturing and so on.

I have whined in the beginning before they actually show anything, about realism realism realism.. (yes sorry RCT3) but it looks like what I want is realism in the rides aspect (what you see should be working in real life) and also generic rides not only heavily themed rides that will clash with other themes and reduce their useability. BUT I want some colorful sweetness too! I think that PC guests have a good feel about them plus the scenery objects feels nice too.

Of course I am hoping to play BOTH games and that BOTH will be awesome in their own way. But I simply have this empty feeling about RCTW now... I still encourage them and write positive(?) posts..

 

[Kerantli]

Part of me is very glad I got a free key for the game rather than pre-ordering. Not entirely sure the key will let me play the next beta (if I have a computer that will run it by then, which I am seriously doubting), but even if I don't actually like the game when it's released, I've not lost out on any money.

 

[Harbinger]

Part of me is very glad I got a free key for the game rather than pre-ordering. Not entirely sure the key will let me play the next beta (if I have a computer that will run it by then, which I am seriously doubting), but even if I don't actually like the game when it's released, I've not lost out on any money.

If it's one of the keys that were given away on the Alienware streams, PC Gamer draw or the Escapist twitter giveaway (where I got my key) then it's a full standard edition key and you'll be able to play the next beta.