Planet Coaster - 1.0.3 Update

coasterlover · Dec 7, 2016

admittedly i did ask for patch notes once this went live, but this was the first time ive looked here:

and WOW what a shocking bunch of replies.

Yes patch notes help us all when playing to realize "ah that's not happening the fix worked" or "Nop , still there, didnt work"

but WOW ive never seen such a negatively reply to a fix , of course Frontier could have waited till the 15th and put theses fixes in with the dlc and not told anyone or, ike another company, just not patched the game at all

be thankful neither of that happened.

Id like to say THANK YOU frontier for this update, my FPS seems more stable now, if that's related, great, it worked !

Gaz

Curlyriff · Dec 7, 2016

All I am pointing out is not being clear or at least a basic statement (which we have now and happy with that myself) is that people jump on what they think has been done such as the "queue" issue which has not been. I did sound super negative but it just lacked anything to make it clear.

It got resolved to the point I was happy to know that they are stability fixes and not for instance the demographic bug, or queue bug or whatever more specific etc. It is simple clarity that can help people understand at times.

That is key to good communication. It doesn't have to be long with a list of 10 or 20 bullet points about each part to be effective or good communication.

Ozric · Dec 7, 2016

Another cheeky little update thank you very much guys and girls, great stuff [up]

So much conjecture, didn't think I'd ever break this out over here

xyphic said:
But I understand the point-of-view that a detailed patch log (as per what Frontier do with Elite) is time-consuming and ultimately doesn't really benefit anyone.

Hey they benefit me, while I spend my hour's lunch break reading through them [haha]

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Curlyriff said:
That is key to good communication. It doesn't have to be long with a list of 10 or 20 bullet points about each part to be effective or good communication.

You mean what you deem to be good communication.

Curlyriff · Dec 7, 2016

Ozric said:
Another cheeky little update thank you very much guys and girls, great stuff [up]

So much conjecture, didn't think I'd ever break this out over here

http://i.imgur.com/eS8L0gZh.jpg

Hey they benefit me, while I spend my hour's lunch break reading through them [haha]

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You mean what you deem to be good communication.

That is what companies and management are provided as a basis of good communication. I am not directly attributing it to the exact words. I am talking about clear and precise information that is condensed so that it clarifies but does not baffle people in technical unless required to do so.

This is from courses that universities create and people such as Siemens pay someone to coach this to their CEO's of their global business. I am going from this by having completed such a course on what makes "clear and concise information good information and when does not".

Yes of course it's subjective but those are just the base principles.

Ozric · Dec 7, 2016

There was an update to Diablo 3 a couple of weeks ago, there were no patch notes.

There was an update to Overwatch a couple of weeks ago, there were no patch notes.

There was an update to Lord of the Rings online last month, there were no patch notes.

No patch notes = server/stability/performance tweaks. Given that, for example, LOTRO has been out for 9 1/2 years, I had just assumed this was an industry standard. I am however, as always, prepared to be wrong.

SilverArrow · Dec 7, 2016

Ozric said:
No patch notes = server/stability/performance tweaks. Given that, for example, LOTRO has been out for 9 1/2 years, I had just assumed this was an industry standard. I am however, as always, prepared to be wrong.

You can check how many games like Arma 3, Civilization, Battlefield, etc. always detail their updates. There's no standard, every company do as they see fit.

Although in the software industry is quite common to list the changes, fixes, additions and removals. For instance, in many projects as one of the lead devs my job was to create those lists (obviously I always "purged" them to keep minimally relevant stuff, not internal fixes).

That's also affected on how bug-fixing is done, if you have a system that keeps track of what's modified, then it's easier to write those notes.

But then again, FD can do their update posts as they see fit, I'm actually grateful that they fix stuff practically every week.

Curlyriff · Dec 7, 2016

Ozric said:
There was an update to Diablo 3 a couple of weeks ago, there were no patch notes.

There was an update to Overwatch a couple of weeks ago, there were no patch notes.

There was an update to Lord of the Rings online last month, there were no patch notes.

No patch notes = server/stability/performance tweaks. Given that, for example, LOTRO has been out for 9 1/2 years, I had just assumed this was an industry standard. I am however, as always, prepared to be wrong.

That is not at all what we are suggesting. And as SA points out everyone works different. Apparently so do teams in the same company. Elite Dangerous details out everything in as much detail as possible so the devs those feel different to the devs for PC however they still all work for Frontier.

Even Ubisoft are managing to do it. In honesty the ones that put patches out without any notes is poor communication to their community.

In regards to Diablo 3 though there are patch notes

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/20362179/patch-243-ptr-patch-notes-11-22-2016

Ozric · Dec 7, 2016

SilverArrow said:
For instance, in many projects as one of the lead devs my job was to create those lists (obviously I always "purged" them to keep minimally relevant stuff, not internal fixes).

Curlyriff said:
That is not at all what we are suggesting. And as SA points out everyone works different. Apparently so do teams in the same company. Elite Dangerous details out everything in as much detail as possible so the devs those feel different to the devs for PC however they still all work for Frontier.

Even Ubisoft are managing to do it. In honesty the ones that put patches out without any notes is poor communication to their community.

In regards to Diablo 3 though there are patch notes

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/20362179/patch-243-ptr-patch-notes-11-22-2016

Elite is massively different to PC and aren't really comparable. The main reason such detailed patch notes are given for ED is because we asked and fought for them, right from the very beginning of the game well before launch. Some people still complain that the patch notes are too detailed or don't make any sense because in some situations they are taken from their internal tracking system. We have spent a very long time working with the dev and QA teams to get to the place we are now and it is far more beneficial because of the impact that seemingly small changes can have on other parts of the game. Obviously the biggest difference is that ED is a multiplayer game and so the changes need to be monitored more closely.

Oh and the patch notes you've linked are for the PTR of Diablo 3, not the main game

Curlyriff · Dec 7, 2016

Ozric said:
Elite is massively different to PC and aren't really comparable. The main reason such detailed patch notes are given for ED is because we asked and fought for them, right from the very beginning of the game well before launch. Some people still complain that the patch notes are too detailed or don't make any sense because in some situations they are taken from their internal tracking system. We have spent a very long time working with the dev and QA teams to get to the place we are now and it is far more beneficial because of the impact that seemingly small changes can have on other parts of the game. Obviously the biggest difference is that ED is a multiplayer game and so the changes need to be monitored more closely.

Oh and the patch notes you've linked are for the PTR of Diablo 3, not the main game

Welly you just stated Diablo 3 don't do them that's all

And yeah I get they are however we also here on PC asked for them many times just like we did with ED. I know that is what happened as I was part asking for it.

I don't believe that because it is multiplayer that it should be a reason to have them compared to PC in honesty. Just my view of course. We have also been here for 9 months on the PC forum and before asking about patch notes and were just told Devs don't do them. People including me pointed out that Frontier do with ED and what is the issue between doing it for that and this and we never really got an answer other than it's a lot of work which yeah it is but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.

I feel that is why people are getting upset including myself to a point because a company having such different policy depending on game is frustrating, we knew how ED went down and so believed it would be the same as a precedent was set to how Frontier work as their own publisher.

DarthLuca · Dec 7, 2016

coolraver said:
This thing's starting to become a slippery slope for the staff...

Situation A: Doesn't release patch notes --- "WTH no patch notes?!"

Situation B: Releases patch notes --- "Why isn't the whatchamacallit issue fixed yet?!"

They will never win. XD

Actually fixing the watchmacallit and then telling us about it would be a win!

Inge Jones · Dec 7, 2016

FinalMantasyX said:
This implies

1. Bugs have been fixed

2. That includes specific bugs people reported

You guys don't think those people deserve to know that bugs they reported have been fixed? [rolleyes]

It would certainly give us an idea what to go back and check - or in some cases whether it's time to start playing again if it's something you were waiting to have fixed before trying again.

Curlyriff · Dec 7, 2016

DarthLuca said:
Actually fixing the watchmacallit and then telling us about it would be a win!

You mean they haven't fixed the watchmacallit, surely that is on top of their list to fix first [mouth shut]

Inge Jones · Dec 7, 2016

coolraver said:
This thing's starting to become a slippery slope for the staff...

Situation A: Doesn't release patch notes --- "WTH no patch notes?!"

Situation B: Releases patch notes --- "Why isn't the whatchamacallit issue fixed yet?!"

They will never win. XD

That's not logical. if the watchamacallit wasn't fixed they'd soon find out when they play again and then they still be saying "Why isn't the whatchamacallit issue fixed yet?!" There would only be a small delayed in their reaction by not having a list to read.

Ozric · Dec 7, 2016

Curlyriff said:
And yeah I get they are however we also here on PC asked for them many times just like we did with ED. I know that is what happened as I was part asking for it.

I don't believe that because it is multiplayer that it should be a reason to have them compared to PC in honesty. Just my view of course. We have also been here for 9 months on the PC forum and before asking about patch notes and were just told Devs don't do them. People including me pointed out that Frontier do with ED and what is the issue between doing it for that and this and we never really got an answer other than it's a lot of work which yeah it is but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.

I feel that is why people are getting upset including myself to a point because a company having such different policy depending on game is frustrating, we knew how ED went down and so believed it would be the same as a precedent was set to how Frontier work as their own publisher.

Well I guess you have your answer then. I can understand the frustration, but there's nothing to say that different parts of the same parent company should do things in the same way, it certainly doesn't happen at my work. If the PC team made it clear that they weren't going to do patch notes then there's no point in berating them for not making them as detailed as some would like. All you can do is make a constructive case for why you would like them to be detailed. How detailed a company decides to be is entirely up to them, you also have to bear in mind how mental the ED crowd is compared to PC

As it would appear that you know, everything is broken down in to the tiniest detail by them.

Where I get confused is the level of resentment (not singling you out) over the, and correct me if I'm wrong, first update to not include any patch notes.

Buffpuff · Dec 7, 2016

coasterlover said:
admittedly i did ask for patch notes once this went live, but this was the first time ive looked here:

and WOW what a shocking bunch of replies.

Yes patch notes help us all when playing to realize "ah that's not happening the fix worked" or "Nop , still there, didnt work"

but WOW ive never seen such a negatively reply to a fix , of course Frontier could have waited till the 15th and put theses fixes in with the dlc and not told anyone or, ike another company, just not patched the game at all

be thankful neither of that happened.

Id like to say THANK YOU frontier for this update, my FPS seems more stable now, if that's related, great, it worked !

Gaz

What amazes me is that a small post about an update has spilled in to over 5 pages of no patch notes discussion. I get the reasoning. I really do. I just really don't care. I'm not here to specifically test if something was fixed or not. If that's your cup of tea then so be it. But this thread reminds me of a classic The Rolling Stones song "You can't always get what you want". I'll hush up now since there's been way too much negativity piled on this thread and I do not wish to add to it.

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Curlyriff said:
Welly you just stated Diablo 3 don't do them that's all

And yeah I get they are however we also here on PC asked for them many times just like we did with ED. I know that is what happened as I was part asking for it.

I don't believe that because it is multiplayer that it should be a reason to have them compared to PC in honesty. Just my view of course. We have also been here for 9 months on the PC forum and before asking about patch notes and were just told Devs don't do them. People including me pointed out that Frontier do with ED and what is the issue between doing it for that and this and we never really got an answer other than it's a lot of work which yeah it is but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.

I feel that is why people are getting upset including myself to a point because a company having such different policy depending on game is frustrating, we knew how ED went down and so believed it would be the same as a precedent was set to how Frontier work as their own publisher.

Curly you and I usually see eye to eye so you know I have no personal bone to pick with you. But I ask this question and I'm really not trying not to be funny in asking it. What do we, as a community, lose by NOT having detailed patch notes. I'll throw out there that yes I think MAJOR bug fixes should be noted and addressed.

Curlyriff · Dec 7, 2016

Ozric said:
Well I guess you have your answer then. I can understand the frustration, but there's nothing to say that different parts of the same parent company should do things in the same way, it certainly doesn't happen at my work. If the PC team made it clear that they weren't going to do patch notes then there's no point in berating them for not making them as detailed as some would like. All you can do is make a constructive case for why you would like them to be detailed. How detailed a company decides to be is entirely up to them, you also have to bear in mind how mental the ED crowd is compared to PC As it would appear that you know, everything is broken down in to the tiniest detail by them.

Where I get confused is the level of resentment (not singling you out) over the, and correct me if I'm wrong, first update to not include any patch notes.

Nah all the patch notes during Alpha were missing too and that was also frustrating. Actually when we asked we just got silence at the time, it was only recently they said not doing them which everyone was like em ok why? and no real reason given other than it's work which is a cop-out in my opinion.

In regards to doing things different in same company. I do contract work for a company that has 16 different offices offering the same service and all have to still communicate and produce work to the same standard and with the same detail on all projects. Even the people contracted to work rather than full time have to understand all the systems in place.

It wouldn't work if one team did it one way and other team another way so that is probably why I have taken the view/stance I have.

No worries about singling me out, we are having a discussion

Ozric · Dec 7, 2016

Curlyriff said:
It wouldn't work if one team did it one way and other team another way so that is probably why I have taken the view/stance I have.

Hehe, you should try working for local council

FinalMantasyX · Dec 7, 2016

coasterlover said:
of course Frontier could have waited till the 15th and put theses fixes in with the dlc and not told anyone or, ike another company, just not patched the game at all

be thankful neither of that happened.

"They could have done worse, so we should be grateful they did poorly" is just really, really weird logic to me.

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Ozric said:
No patch notes = server/stability/performance tweaks.

Zac specifically said that this patch fixes things that people reported.

Curlyriff · Dec 7, 2016

Ozric said:
Hehe, you should try working for local council

Haha, we work to produce work for the councils all over the UK if that is close enough

they get all the same information too.

SilverArrow · Dec 7, 2016

FinalMantasyX said:
"They could have done worse, so we should be grateful they did poorly" is just really, really weird logic to me.

Out of curiosity, and without any kind of animosity. Has it ever occured to you, that we may not all think like you?