Why is everything so restrictive?

[Marnit]

Every once in a while an update comes to remove restrictions, only to find that it didn't remove quite a lot of them...

A lot of things rollercoasters do in real life are still impossible to do in planet coaster, for no good reason...

Banked block brakes
Found on: Multiple wooden coasters, some schwartzkopf steel coasters (Example: Jetline)

Curved chain lifts on anything but the chance hyper, I believe?
Found on: Jetline, Knightmare, possibly more

Inverted block brakes on the S&S Free Fly
Found on: Tranan
The real "Pioneer" has an inverted block brake in the middle, and not being able to build one massively restricts layout design due to need of short block sections...

Normal and Block Section mode on intamin inpulse
Found on: Vulcano the Blast Coaster
I fully expected this to be possible to do with last update, surprise, it's not

Multiple passthroughs on the hydraulic launch coasters
Found on: Schwartzkopf shuttle loops
If possible, you could perfectly recreate shuttle loops, but surprise, also not possible

Inclined hydraulic launches.
Found on: All hydraulic launch coasters
Not a single hydraulic launch coaster in existance has a flat launch, all are sloped upwards in varying degrees...
(Quite annoying)

Normal and block operations on skyloop.
Found on: Maurer X-Car model

Bolt and Trident trains on Degen and American Arrow (And vica versa)
I see no reason the trains with other paint scheme would not fit those rides...
I fully assume more people would really prefer bolt over american arrow trains on their looper, because not everyone names their ride american arrow...

And probably plenty of other things that I forgot...

 

[Zakman]

I agree to all of these wholeheartedly, I'd personally like the options of "remove limitations" to not be a soft-lift but just a full out anarchy mode for things like this, the same applies to coaster train swapping. I know these are design decisions made to hide clipping or jank or whatever but I think it wouldn't be a bad move to trust the active playerbase to be able to embrace and deal with the jank, I assure you we are good enough to do this. Effectively speaking we have been finding exploits and workarounds to problems in the game since launch


I'd go further than this to say I'd also like to see a day where the coasters just get standardised, magnet launches, cables, blocks, chains on absolutely everything would more than double the coaster variety we can currently make in game, although I realise that's an absolute mammoth task. The new booster bikes are a pretty clear example of that, only having a cable launch on what is quite a modern and popular track reduces the amount of ride types we can make out of it down to just to original booster bike model, or some very janky launched vekomas.

 

[LN]

All options on all coasters without restrictions.

I agree.

Why can't we build a launched wooden coaster if we want to?

 

[tricktrack]

Great Post!
I keep saying for ages now that PlanCo very urgently needs an overhaul/re-think of the whole coaster aspect of the game.
The restrictions are so annyoing. I remember that the Devs justified some of the restriction because the wanted to avoid clipping. But that justifiying a minor grafic un-reality with a
major restriction on prober functionality is frustrating.

PLEASE let us swap all trains on all tracks Let US -THE PLAYERS- decide what we want to build. Let those who just want to get silly get silly, and let hhose who are obsessed with realistic coaster re-creations have their way! And don´t dismiss the people who want to play the game for realistic coaster operations.

launch options and 2-2 trains with lapbars leave a lot to be desired.
We should have the option to have a launch on the Vekoma (Degen/Trident) coasters (Rock´n Roller Coaster says Hello!)
Please allow us more train options on the Jixxer. It´such a versatile track-design that should run all 2-2 trains.

Launching up s steeper incline should be possible (Verbolten, Lightning Rod, the new Copperstrike come to mind).

And please animate block-brakes. Even RCT 2 did this and it was such a nice touch to have a visual referrence of seeing blocks going from open to closed and vice versa.

 

[NickEast]

All this I agree with, let me just say that outright. Yes, the limitations are too limiting.

That said, it's highly unlikely that it will get "fixed" (at least not in this particular game), since the game is finished and so far away from the original development period. The whole underlying system exists and is "finished", making it extremely hard and impractical to "fix" it, especially since the actual development support has wound down. The game is still being supported, yes, but only in terms of content, bugfixes, and standard quality-of-life improvements. It would (most likely) require too much development support to improve, i.e. remake, the underlying systems based on what they have learned. This game was the first of its kind for Frontier to do, as it was a massive step up from RCT3, and contains a lot of experimental features. While the developers would have definitely learned a great deal from developing it, those lessons cannot be applied to this particular game any more due to its "age" (if you will). Many would find this unsatisfying (since we did pay for a finished game), but that is how game development works. The developers would take these lessons to make the next game better (though of course there is absolutely no indication of a Planet Coaster 2).

Simply put, the underlying system may not be that efficient, thus requiring too much work to just fix it. Most of the developers have moved on to other projects, leaving behind only a skeleton crew to develop additional content and fixes for the game. We don't know exactly how the game works under the hood, but from my own experience in game development it's never as simple as it looks. Some things may be easier to fix than others, regardless of how we the players perceive it to be.

 

[MateriaGirl]

Someone modded in unlimited restrictions somehow, I remember seeing a video of a train ride with a loop. The devs say that you can't allow things like that due to intersecting problems but that's obviously a total lie.

 

[KickAir8p]

Great Post!
I keep saying for ages now that PlanCo very urgently needs an overhaul/re-think of the whole coaster aspect of the game.
The restrictions are so annyoing. I remember that the Devs justified some of the restriction because the wanted to avoid clipping. But that justifiying a minor grafic un-reality with a major restriction on prober functionality is frustrating . . .

Yep, +1! [up]

. . . it's highly unlikely that it will get "fixed" (at least not in this particular game), since the game is finished and so far away from the original development period. The whole underlying system exists and is "finished", making it extremely hard and impractical to "fix" it, especially since the actual development support has wound down . . .

Hmmmmm, I can't agree with that (my opinion throughout). This game has been in development through its entire public life, with the devs continueing to implement players' suggestions (sometimes from-the-beginning suggestions), including those Frontier earlier said they wouldn't. There's never been any "We're done!" announcement. Maybe that's because if they did a small hoard would speak up about their years-old doables wishlist they've been hoping would someday be implememted. Maybe because that would tacitly open it to modding (without the possibility of developments jossing the mods), and years of variations on "we can't do that" would be exposed as quite possible.

Regardless, "it's too late!" and the like are never good reasons to shoot down requests for improvements, not till Frontier outright abandons it. [down]

 

[NickEast]

Hmmmmm, I can't agree with that (my opinion throughout). This game has been in development through its entire public life, with the devs continueing to implement players' suggestions (sometimes from-the-beginning suggestions), including those Frontier earlier said they wouldn't. There's never been any "We're done!" announcement. Maybe that's because if they did a small hoard would speak up about their years-old doables wishlist they've been hoping would someday be implememted. Maybe because that would tacitly open it to modding (without the possibility of developments jossing the mods), and years of variations on "we can't do that" would be exposed as quite possible.

Regardless, "it's too late!" and the like are never good reasons to shoot down requests for improvements, not till Frontier outright abandons it. [down]

The "We're done" moment was the same moment they pressed the button to release Planet Coaster 1.0 on Steam. That's when the development of the game is officially finished. After that they continued to release updates and DLC to enhance the game by fixing bugs, adding additional content, and adding new features, all of which I said in my full post that you so conveniently cut out. One other thing I also mentioned that you didn't quote was that some features are easier to implement or improve than others, even if we think they are easy to add or fix. The system used for coasters is such a feature that is too difficult to fix in this current version of the game so would have to be done almost entirely from scratch to implement everything they learned since then. The team currently working on the game is just a fraction the size of what it was when it was in full development, which is normal in game development. It is for all intents and purposes too late to fix for this game. And FYI, I didn't shoot down requests for improvements. First of all, these suggestions have been posted and reposted so many times, meaning that everyone want this fixed. Frontier wants it fixed too. Did I say Frontier has abandoned the game? Did I say I didn't want the same thing? Actually, I said I did agree with everything, just that's it's highly unlikely it will be done in this game.

I would like to be proven wrong though, and I will happily concede when I am. But based on the facts that I know, this isn't easy to fix and thus unlikely to get fixed.

 

[g3rox]

Great Post!
I keep saying for ages now that PlanCo very urgently needs an overhaul/re-think of the whole coaster aspect of the game.
The restrictions are so annyoing. I remember that the Devs justified some of the restriction because the wanted to avoid clipping. But that justifiying a minor grafic un-reality with a
major restriction on prober functionality is frustrating.

PLEASE let us swap all trains on all tracks Let US -THE PLAYERS- decide what we want to build. Let those who just want to get silly get silly, and let hhose who are obsessed with realistic coaster re-creations have their way! And don´t dismiss the people who want to play the game for realistic coaster operations.

launch options and 2-2 trains with lapbars leave a lot to be desired.
We should have the option to have a launch on the Vekoma (Degen/Trident) coasters (Rock´n Roller Coaster says Hello!)
Please allow us more train options on the Jixxer. It´such a versatile track-design that should run all 2-2 trains.

Launching up s steeper incline should be possible (Verbo

Very well said, I agree. On the other hand, they let us build floating islands and other crazy stuff with scenery, on the other hand you can´t even build launched wooden coaster. Like completely different team was doing each part of the game. And in the end, it feels a bit inconsistent all together and it doesn´t seem to work that well as a whole.

All options on all coasters without restrictions.

I agree.

Why can't we build a launched wooden coaster if we want to?

I agree, especially since it´s actual real thing.... I kinda feel it ruins all the hard work devs have had put into rides in general. It´s shame, that they sometimes put some restrictions for something like this, probably only because they haven´t found a real-life example of it, but generally, I don´t see a reason why it shouldn´t be possible to do...

The "We're done" moment was the same moment they pressed the button to release Planet Coaster 1.0 on Steam.

I disagree here a bit. It used to be like that, but with the modern approach "games as a service" this doesn´t longer apply. Games are released unfinished and then maintained and expanded with updates and DLCs.

Good example is Battlefield V. They will release the game, but we already know they will add battleroyale mode next year as an update, even though it was advertised as a part of the game.

Myself, I must admit I didn´t consider PC to be "done" when they released.

 

[Periocus]

The good old days of Alpha 1. *sigh*

Some of us fought for an open coasterbuilder, but Frontier denied it if i am correct. I remember they said if we can proove that things in real life exsist they would change it. But even that seems obsolet know.
Companies have a track and they can put everything on it. From a kiddie coaster to a thrillcoaster, launch or not launch, boostersegments, spinning etc.

I am all for opening up the coasterbuilder. It seems No Limit for example does not have any problems with that.
Why can't Frontier let the Users decided what they want or not. If the track (like my overhead lift) or the train looks bad on a set up and i am happy with it. Why not?
If i want to make a boostersegment with the frictionwheels. Why not?

I know, i know..... This all so complicated and not easy to do.

 

[g3rox]

The good old days of Alpha 1. *sigh*

Some of us fought for an open coasterbuilder, but Frontier denied it if i am correct. I remember they said if we can proove that things in real life exsist they would change it. But even that seems obsolet know.
Companies have a track and they can put everything on it. From a kiddie coaster to a thrillcoaster, launch or not launch, boostersegments, spinning etc.

I am all for opening up the coasterbuilder. It seems No Limit for example does not have any problems with that.
Why can't Frontier let the Users decided what they want or not. If the track (like my overhead lift) or the train looks bad on a set up and i am happy with it. Why not?
If i want to make a boostersegment with the frictionwheels. Why not?

I know, i know..... This all so complicated and not easy to do.

I just don´t get the idea behind the restrictions. I tought this is game with as much freedom as possible. It is, until you start building a coaster.... Really, really strange decision on their side.[down]

 

[NickEast]

Very well said, I agree. On the other hand, they let us build floating islands and other crazy stuff with scenery, on the other hand you can´t even build launched wooden coaster. Like completely different team was doing each part of the game. And in the end, it feels a bit inconsistent all together and it doesn´t seem to work that well as a whole.

Floating islands are possible because that's how the terrain works, it's an effect of the terrain system they implemented to create more realistic 3D terrain as opposed to the old heightmap terrain. All coaster features are the cause as they have to be implemented separately. What I mean with this is that the terrain system allows floating terrains and the coaster system disallows launched wooden coasters because of the way the systems were implemented. To prevent floating islands they would have to implement features to limit it, whereas to allow launched wooden coasters, they would have to implement features to add them. To prevent floating islands, the game will probably have to check for each terrain "cell" whether it's supported or not, which may be very resource-intensive to do. And a launched wooden coaster would add yet another separate feature (they can't just add a launched track piece to existing coasters due to the way the coaster system works).

Does this make any sense? [wacky]

I disagree here a bit. It used to be like that, but with the modern approach "games as a service" this doesn´t longer apply. Games are released unfinished and then maintained and expanded with updates and DLCs.

Good example is Battlefield V. They will release the game, but we already know they will add battleroyale mode next year as an update, even though it was advertised as a part of the game.

Myself, I must admit I didn´t consider PC to be "done" when they released.

There isn't a "used to". Not all games use "GaaS". The typical traits to identify GaaS are micro-transactions, subscriptions, and season passes (with big DLC expansions behind them). Planet Coaster has none of them, and the DLC are smaller content packs and not major expansions. In the past games were also maintained for a longer period through incremental patches and expansions, this isn't new. DLC is just a modern variant on expansions that allows smaller, more affordable packages (which in some cases serve as micro-transactions).

It may be your opinion, and that's perfectly fine. Even I didn't consider the game "finished" when it was officially released. But by game development standards it was. That's the process from Alpha to Beta to Release. But with games there are two different kinds of "finished". Finished as in released and finished as in the developers no longer support it (with updates and/or DLC). The difference is that when a game is released the majority of the team moves on to other projects and, as I said before, only a skeleton crew remains to support the game until its End-of-Life. Regardless of when people think a game is finished, the fact remains that it's highly unlikely (which doesn't mean impossible) that coasters will get "fixed" due to reasons I've already mentioned. Doesn't mean I don't want them to be fixed, nor that I believe it will never be fixed.

 

[Periocus]

to be fair.

One can do a lot more now then in the beginning. I cheered for every opening they did.
Actually i still thank them for that, but the longer i am in the game the more i wished i could do things the programm won't let me.
At the moment i wish i could da a launch family coaster like slinky dog dash coaster.
All i need for that would be another max speed for the frictionwheels in game.

 

[g3rox]

Floating islands are possible because that's how the terrain works, it's an effect of the terrain system they implemented to create more realistic 3D terrain as opposed to the old heightmap terrain. All coaster features are the cause as they have to be implemented separately. What I mean with this is that the terrain system allows floating terrains and the coaster system disallows launched wooden coasters because of the way the systems were implemented. To prevent floating islands they would have to implement features to limit it, whereas to allow launched wooden coasters, they would have to implement features to add them. To prevent floating islands, the game will probably have to check for each terrain "cell" whether it's supported or not, which may be very resource-intensive to do. And a launched wooden coaster would add yet another separate feature (they can't just add a launched track piece to existing coasters due to the way the coaster system works).

Does this make any sense? [wacky]

No, it doesn´t. Maybe because developers make it harder themselves? It would be pretty much easier if they simply allowed it for ALL coasters. Lets take the launch coaster. I pick any coaster and set it as launched. Then it would be basically only different track model, but the funcion would be the same. Not much extra work, would be very user friendly and convenient and we would have more freedom.

However, the way they made rides work doesn´t allow this solution and in the end, it is much worse then it used to be in older titles. Instead of one conster in the menu, there is more of the same just with minor differences. This was always something I disliked on PC. Also, they took away even more freedom with freefall towers and observatory towers, as the first time ever, we cannot even customize the height.

There isn't a "used to". Not all games use "GaaS". The typical traits to identify GaaS are micro-transactions, subscriptions, and season passes (with big DLC expansions behind them). Planet Coaster has none of them, and the DLC are smaller content packs and not major expansions. In the past games were also maintained for a longer period through incremental patches and expansions, this isn't new. DLC is just a modern variant on expansions that allows smaller, more affordable packages (which in some cases serve as micro-transactions).

It may be your opinion, and that's perfectly fine. Even I didn't consider the game "finished" when it was officially released. But by game development standards it was. That's the process from Alpha to Beta to Release. But with games there are two different kinds of "finished". Finished as in released and finished as in the developers no longer support it (with updates and/or DLC). The difference is that when a game is released the majority of the team moves on to other projects and, as I said before, only a skeleton crew remains to support the game until its End-of-Life. Regardless of when people think a game is finished, the fact remains that it's highly unlikely (which doesn't mean impossible) that coasters will get "fixed" due to reasons I've already mentioned. Doesn't mean I don't want them to be fixed, nor that I believe it will never be fixed.

"DLC is just a modern variant on expansions that allows smaller, more affordable packages" -> Only at first sight, but in the end, it´s more expensive and has less value. Again, it depends on the game, but I think Planet Coaster DLCs could have better content. I wouldn´t be afraid to say all DLCs are still not as big as one proper 30-40 dollar expansion pack, yet all together, they are more expensive.

 

[Marnit]

No, it doesn´t. Maybe because developers make it harder themselves? It would be pretty much easier if they simply allowed it for ALL coasters. Lets take the launch coaster. I pick any coaster and set it as launched. Then it would be basically only different track model, but the funcion would be the same. Not much extra work, would be very user friendly and convenient and we would have more freedom.

Actually, unlike all the things I listed, which are basically configuration things, there definitely is a reason why the wooden coaster doesn't have a LSM as default option.

Because it needs a different track and train model for the launch segment.

As much as I would love the concept of having all special track pieces on all rides, that requires a LOT of effort, and in quite a lot of cases they would need to invent themselves how the mechanisms would work if no example exists in real life.

Good old RCT didn't care about adding random things to random rides, because you couldn't see how things worked there...

 

[Ramm]

Been asking for this from the start. Unrestrict everything. Let he player decide how they want to play the game.

 

[AaronTuckwell]

I kind of liked how they did it in Theme Park Studio (which I believe was off the back of one of the suggestions I made when I backed it) where you choose your track type (through the various manufacturers, inverted or not) then built it with all possible combinations of special elements, then you choose what train to have on the track.

I totally get where they are with the different coaster models for different things. There must be a reason that it's like it is... Otherwise, why didn't they just add the chain lift to the wing coaster in the first place? Why did we end up with 2 variants? That would have been the ideal time to do it as at the time we only had something like 12 coasters to contend with..

 

[MateriaGirl]

What drives me nuts is track rides. Building track rides is SO HARD. The minimum lengths of track is sooooo long, and it's very hard to get them to circle around and connect to the station. Then when you raise and lower pieces, it's very hard to get them the height you want and flat at the same time.

 

[pretparkfreak]

I really wish for the ability to put smaller banks on railroad trains, log flume etc..
I'm really struggling to get my parktrain connected...[down][ugh]

 

[RealWar]

I really wish for the ability to put smaller banks on railroad trains, log flume etc..
I'm really struggling to get my parktrain connected...[down][ugh]

Yeah, I also would love for smaller segments on the tracked rides, too.