The FSS - How the Right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing.

[-VR- Max Factor]

I like flying a pretend spaceship.

I find pootling around a system, dodging gravity wells and resolving planets to be both enjoyable and relaxing. Both the FSS and new-DSS break up the flow and make the process irritating.

What do you mean by resolving planets? Is that the spinning animation you get in the ship when you get select and get close it it.

The FSS does not stop you from flying around star systems, it may delay it a bit, but thats it. It puts a gameplay wall between what you are after, but that is what games are about.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Surely for the majority of those people the FSS spectrum makes that decision almost instantaneous? If you're cherry-picking then the FSS is as quick as the ADS at showing you whether there's anything in the system you want to scan - which you can then do immediately from the FSS. It's only those people looking for weird alignments or oddly colored planets who have to suffer through the FSS, which is only a tiny minority of cherrypickers.

Everyone has to use the FSS no matter what they want to do. And there is nothing instant about cherry picking. The only reason to cherry pick is to get your name on something and credits, but and as the mapped tag is the one which gets you the most credits and most kudos, it is far from instantaneous as you need to travel there and even if you just wanted to scan, it still isn't instant as you need to find the object in the FSS which can actually take some time.

 

[Faded Glory]

Personally, if I'd built an entire galaxy I'd want to give people as many ways as possible to explore it, rather than forcing them to do it in one particular way.

That's what I don't get about all these 'discussions'. More options, more choices... That has to be better for the game.

I've always been mystified by those arguing that an optional ADS module that allowed players different approaches to exploration would be a bad thing.

The idea that a visual implementation of an unexplored system would somehow be easier, or some kind of cheat is laughable. Exploration (especially for credits) couldn't get easier than the FSS makes it.

More choices, more options for different types of gameplay. Cannot see the downside.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

That's what I don't get about all these 'discussions'. More options, more choices... That has to be better for the game.

I've always been mystified by those arguing that an optional ADS module that allowed players different approaches to exploration would be a bad thing.

The idea that a visual implementation of an unexplored system would somehow be easier, or some kind of cheat is laughable. Exploration (especially for credits) couldn't get easier than the FSS makes it.

More choices, more options for different types of gameplay. Cannot see the downside.

I am all up for a mutually exclusice module or a set of optional modules with drawbacks that works with the FSS. More options more choices, but I suspect people want to have their cake and eat it.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

What do you mean by resolving planets? Is that the spinning animation you get in the ship when you get select and get close it it.

The FSS does not stop you from flying around star systems, it may delay it a bit, but thats it. It puts a gameplay wall between what you are after, but that is what games are about.

By 'resolving' I mean turning 'unexplored' into a named object and uncovering the composition data.
Climbing over the simplistic 'gameplay wall' to be able to fly to bodies removes the purpose (for me) of flying to the bodies since nothing will happen when I get there - they're already resolved

And noo, the FSS doesn't stop me doing anything - I can still explore by parallax and the invisible DSS. I'd simply prefer to use an ADS rather than parallax.

It's really simple Max, the FSS messes up the way I like to explore and so I'd rather not use it. I enjoyed the old way, so I'd like to have that option back.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

I am all up for a mutually exclusice module or a set of optional modules with drawbacks that works with the FSS. More options more choices, but I suspect people want to have their cake and eat it.

So go add your support to the latest thread in the Suggestions forum.

 

[Chaparral]

See, this is the thing that I find especially absurd about the FSS.
It's just willfully stupid.

We honk and the FSS shows us the position of "blobs" on the FSS screen.
That means the FSS knows the distance and location of all those blobs.

We have a "radio tuner" which shows spikes in different positions according to the type of body detected.
This means the FSS knows what sort of body it's detected.

The FSS has all the information it needs to create a reasonable approximation of the system map without any further input from the player.
So, why doesn't it do it?


If it was up to me, I'd set it up so honking generates a system map populated by generic graphics depicting the types of planets within the system.
The sidebar would contain almost no information at all and simply state the type, size, mass and temperature of the body.
This would yield almost no exploration data but would allow somebody to easily find interesting looking places to visit.

You could then, if you wanted to, open up the FSS and scan all the planets as we currently do.
This would replace the generic graphics in the Sysmap with images of the actual planets and would fill in the sidebar with information about the geological make-up of each planet.
It would also yield the current level of exploration data.

There's absolutely no reason why the current system couldn't be revised so that honking provides a simplistic map of a system for those who just want to look around while using the FSS provides more detailed information and more valuable data for those who want that.

This makes the most sense to me...

The heartbeat of the system bodies is a silly representation of data already stored in the scan. The jpgs (insert file format here) of all of the available in game bodies already exists. Why not use them? Weird.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

Having used the FSS for a few hundred k LY by now, I'm quite fine with it.

However, it >does< have a few quirks and shortcomings. Currently (and understandably) enough to make room for a "Legacy Discovery Scanner" (Adv. Disco Scanner) to operate parallel to it. It'd be dirt easy to implement (allow Outfitting to swap this fixed Internal device) and do absolutely no harm.
All flavors served, all while the DSS and its new capabilities would remain untouched. It would break nothing.

PS.
The most irritating situations I ever got with the FSS?

• Traverse space you once (pre V3.3) bought UC Data for
• Honk
• entire System Map is full (except no DSS Data)
• FSS however registers everything as "Unexplored"
• you FSS the entire System, fly somewhere else and can sell it all for.... 0 Cr xD

 

[Faded Glory]

I am all up for a mutually exclusice module or a set of optional modules with drawbacks that works with the FSS. More options more choices, but I suspect people want to have their cake and eat it.

Have their cake and eat it? So you think an ADS resolve is somehow easier or better than the FSS resolve? Can't say that is my observation other than in a few edge cases which I've mentioned before.

An ADS module IMO needs two things. Firstly to be optional, so that people such as yourself whom it offends or for whom it would spoil their exploration experience don't have it imposed on them, and secondly to not have targeting information transferred to or shared with the FSS. If players want the advantages of the FSS (scanning from a distance), they should have to use it to locate those bodies.

Other than those things, I can't think of any compelling reasons why the FSS should be drawback free, while an ADS which is in nearly every instance less powerful should be artificially made worse.

 

[Han Zulu]

Another thing that bugs me with the FSS is that having a planet within the reticle circle isn't enough. It has to be centered in the circle to allow the zoom. The scanning would be soooooo much faster if you didn't have to have exact frequency and exact aim, constantly.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

An ADS module IMO needs two things. Firstly to be optional, so that people such as yourself whom it offends or for whom it would spoil their exploration experience don't have it imposed on them, and secondly to not have targeting information transferred to or shared with the FSS. If players want the advantages of the FSS (scanning from a distance), they should have to use it to locate those bodies.

Adding my support to this.

If I can chose which systems I am going to spend time on FSSing by looking at the ADS, I'd be playing again. It doesn't detract from anyone's gameplay and for my playing style the two would compliment each other.

What information does the ADS give that is such a great bonus? The presence of an ELW, WW or AW is also shown in the FSS. I understand that some players like to figure out the contents of a system by using the FSS, I say fair enough. I do not. I like to spend time during the next phase. But to determine whether I want to proceed to the next phase, I have to go through the FSS.

The lack of an ADS robs me of a decision. It makes me scan an entire system before I can decide whether I want to scan and go into a system.

 

[Duck & Jenny]

What information does the ADS give that is such a great bonus?

While not a "great" bonus, I use the ADS-like feature we get in previously-scanned systems to locate things like ELWs, click on them in the system map, point my ship in the right direction, and then when I switch to FSS that lovely world is front and center. It saves a bunch of "hunting" in the FSS screen.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Everyone has to use the FSS no matter what they want to do. And there is nothing instant about cherry picking.

You're twisting his words. "Surely for the majority of those people the FSS spectrum makes that decision almost instantaneous?" The decision is near instantaneous. Look at the spectrum, spot a cherry. And you scan it much faster than flying towards it. FSS is cherry picking heaven.

And there's nothing wrong with that.

And probing ELWs, WWs and AWs only takes a little while longer than scanning it. Fly into range, fire 5 probes, and charge FSD.

While not a "great" bonus, I use the ADS-like feature we get in previously-scanned systems to locate things like ELWs, click on them in the system map, point my ship in the right direction, and then when I switch to FSS that lovely world is front and center. It saves a bunch of "hunting" in the FSS screen.

Make then non selectable. Looking for an ELW in FSS isn't that hard.

 

[Faded Glory]

While not a "great" bonus, I use the ADS-like feature we get in previously-scanned systems to locate things like ELWs, click on them in the system map, point my ship in the right direction, and then when I switch to FSS that lovely world is front and center. It saves a bunch of "hunting" in the FSS screen.

Yes, that's the process that a couple of people have held up as being the 'workaround' for using the FSS to actually locate bodies...

The thing is, and I truly mean no disrespect, but locating bodies using the FSS is hardly challenging or onerous. Even for those few systems where there's a body away from the orbit lines, it takes very little time to find them. I've come across these in perhaps half a dozen systems (out of hundreds scanned), and I'd say the longest I've had to 'hunt' for the illusive body is likely still less than a minute.

I don't consider myself particularly 'skilled' at using the FSS (and I play in VR), but scanning a system with less than 10 bodies takes a minute or two, systems with 20+ bodies less than five minutes, and systems with 40+ bodies less than 10 minutes. I use EDDI when I play, and that is still reading out the data of bodies I've scanned when I'm already three or four systems away!

I cannot imagine that I would ever consider dropping into a system, opening a system map reveal, zooming in on something to identify with a degree of certainty what it is (in any case, the system map seems to resolve very slowly for me in VR), target said body, exit the system map, line my ship up with the targeted body, throttle down, enter the FSS, make any small adjustments if necessary and then zoom to scan. By the time I'd done all that, I'd be half way through scanning the entire system by just using the FSS as designed...

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

You're twisting his words. "Surely for the majority of those people the FSS spectrum makes that decision almost instantaneous?" The decision is near instantaneous. Look at the spectrum, spot a cherry. And you scan it much faster than flying towards it. FSS is cherry picking heaven.

And there's nothing wrong with that.

So no different to the ADS which was honk, look at system map and go. Now it's honk look at spectrum wave forms and go.

And probing ELWs, WWs and AWs only takes a little while longer than scanning it. Fly into range, fire 5 probes, and charge FSD.

You still have to fly there and you need to get much closer and come to a virtual stand still.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

While not a "great" bonus, I use the ADS-like feature we get in previously-scanned systems to locate things like ELWs, click on them in the system map, point my ship in the right direction, and then when I switch to FSS that lovely world is front and center. It saves a bunch of "hunting" in the FSS screen.

Very much this. It makes cherry picking even easier then ever. People talk about the FSS as cherry pickers heaven when in actuality it is no different to before, but having the ADS and FSS functionality is truly cherry pickers heaven.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Have their cake and eat it? So you think an ADS resolve is somehow easier or better than the FSS resolve? Can't say that is my observation other than in a few edge cases which I've mentioned before.

An ADS module IMO needs two things. Firstly to be optional, so that people such as yourself whom it offends or for whom it would spoil their exploration experience don't have it imposed on them, and secondly to not have targeting information transferred to or shared with the FSS. If players want the advantages of the FSS (scanning from a distance), they should have to use it to locate those bodies.

Other than those things, I can't think of any compelling reasons why the FSS should be drawback free, while an ADS which is in nearly every instance less powerful should be artificially made worse.

Already been talked about how much easier it will be to cherry pick while having both.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

So no different to the ADS which was honk, look at system map and go. Now it's honk look at spectrum wave forms and go.

The difference is that scanning it is much faster.

The decision makes no difference in either system.

You still have to fly there and you need to get much closer and come to a virtual stand still.

Yes, that's why I said "a little while longer"

And mind, before you only had scanned the target, now you have scanned it while you're orbiting the entry star and have mapped it making a lot more money.

Very much this. It makes cherry picking even easier then ever. People talk about the FSS as cherry pickers heaven when in actuality it is no different to before, but having the ADS and FSS functionality is truly cherry pickers heaven.

Not if ADS doesn't allow selecting objects.

edit: I might be wrong, but I remember you having little issues with a non selectable ADS system map.

 

[Faded Glory]

Already been talked about how much easier it will be to cherry pick while having both.

The only thing it would be easier to cherry pick would be strangely colored gas giants. And I have said that all along.

If you feel cherry picking ELW, WW or AW (as examples) would be quicker, then I honestly think you are incorrect or doing it wrong.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Already been talked about how much easier it will be to cherry pick while having both.

And why exactly is that a problem?
As Old Duck says, it works perfectly well that way already in the Bubble, so what's the big deal about it working elsewhere?
Are we back to exploration snobbery and 'true explorers' again?