In game travel - the critical flaw?

[Ian Skippy]

The never ending stream of people complaining about travelling in a space travel emulation of the Milky Way is the critical flaw in the Frontier forum.

I am disappointed by these kind of replies. The issue isnt that there is a lot of space travel, the issue is that it is excruciatingly boring. Absolutely zero honest game designers will argue loading screens are the pinnacle of fun game design. Traveling to Colonia will have you watch loading screens for dozens or hundreds of hours.

From the day this game was released some people have proposed improvements, while others have done nothing but argue the game should be as boring and clunky as possible.

Fortunately FD have worked on tons of things that added fun, purpose and actual gameplay. Can we please move on now, acknowledge that watching hundreds upon hundreds of hours of loading screens with exactly zero gameplay during it is not fun gameplay?

 

[GreyAreaUK]

Traveling to Colonia will have you watch loading screens for dozens or hundreds of hours.

And if you insist on thinking of them as nothing but loading screens then that's entirely your call.

Plenty of people make the trip to Colonia. If you want to spice it up a bit, learn neutron boosting. That's on my 'to do' list. Meanwhile I have zero problem doing it the traditional way.

 

[Stigbob]

I am disappointed by these kind of replies. The issue isnt that there is a lot of space travel, the issue is that it is excruciatingly boring. Absolutely zero honest game designers will argue loading screens are the pinnacle of fun game design. Traveling to Colonia will have you watch loading screens for dozens or hundreds of hours.

From the day this game was released some people have proposed improvements, while others have done nothing but argue the game should be as boring and clunky as possible.

Fortunately FD have worked on tons of things that added fun, purpose and actual gameplay. Can we please move on now, acknowledge that watching hundreds upon hundreds of hours of loading screens with exactly zero gameplay during it is not fun gameplay?

There's no alternative to loading on jumps in a game this huge. Realistic expectations help, try to zen out to it.

 

[Ian Skippy]

So you don't think Outfitting templates would be a useful QoL addition to the game? Interesting...

Some will argue against any change no matter what. Until FD implements it, then its great and should never be changed.

And if you insist on thinking of them as nothing but loading screens then that's entirely your call.

Plenty of people make the trip to Colonia. If you want to spice it up a bit, learn neutron boosting. That's on my 'to do' list. Meanwhile I have zero problem doing it the traditional way.

I have gone there, I have learned neutron boosting. That still doesnt answer why you and others are unwilling, even on a conceptual level, to consider that maybe (just maybe) there could possibly be something more fun than watching loading screens for hundreds of hours.

I 'insist on calling them loading screens' in the same sense that I 'call a spade a spade'. They are loading screens, that is simply the reality. All this 'reality is just in your mind!', 'I did it so surely it cannot be improved upon!' and 'this game is not for you!' rhetoric is just weak.

 

[Ian Skippy]

There's no alternative to loading on jumps in a game this huge. Realistic expectations help, try to zen out to it.

AKA "I cant think of anything so surely noone else can"

Ah well, back to work. I've had my share of logical fallacies for the morning.

 

[GreyAreaUK]

I 'insist on calling them loading screens' in the same sense that I 'call a spade a spade'. They are loading screens, that is simply the reality.

On that basis it's all just pixels and make-believe, so why are you even bothering?

Edit: to expand on this, I have no problem with changes being made to the game, but I absolutely have a problem with changing one of the core fundamentals of the game (going back to the 1984 original) simply because some players find it inconvenient.

 

[Guest193293]

TLDR;

Proceede to personally choose to grind non-stop

"This game is flawed, it's , it's only grinding and nothing else (crying)"

Want to jump 100000Ly non-stop

"This is boring, repetitive gameplay, this is flawed, the game need jump gate and super fast travel (crying)"

 

[Ian Skippy]

On that basis it's all just pixels and make-believe, so why are you even bothering?

Edit: to expand on this, I have no problem with changes being made to the game, but I absolutely have a problem with changing one of the core fundamentals of the game (going back to the 1984 original) simply because some players find it inconvenient.

Since when are loading screens 'the core of the series'? Why not stop this nonsense and think constructively on how specifically the hundreds of hours of watching loading screens can be injected with gameplay? I am not talking about removing scale or making things faster.

 

[GreyAreaUK]

Since when are loading screens 'the core of the series'? Why not stop this nonsense

Ok, bye now.

 

[Northpin]

Ah ok, I have 24ly unloaded... Because I forgot to re-add my C5 Guardian booster when starting this jaunt it seems

Hehe, actually i was convinced you added a Guardian Shield Booster instead of a FSD booster.
I know it happened to me and i was wondering why my jump range still sucks. Luckily this lasted only seconds and it happened in the Outfitting section and not in the black.

... with no great inconvenience to those who enjoy it

Well, introducing fast travel - that is having any system in the bubble at a 1 jump distance - will have a great inconvenience on every activity that involves moving between the stars including, but not limited to, trading, powerplay and even pvp. Having the ultimate gank ship that is currently able to jump only 15 LY being able to get all over the bubble in only one jump seems beyond wrong.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

Game masters, who spend arduous hours describing the group's trek to the dungeon, find they get lots less of the pizza.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

Well, introducing fast travel - that is having any system in the bubble at a 1 jump distance - will have a great inconvenience on every activity that involves moving between the stars including, but not limited to, trading, powerplay and even pvp. Having the ultimate gank ship that is currently able to jump only 15 LY being able to get all over the bubble in only one jump seems beyond wrong.

Try flying a J1 Beowulf Free Trader across The Spinward Marches Abyss.

 

[GreyAreaUK]

Try flying a J1 Beowulf Free Trader across The Spinward Marches Abyss.

A what across the where now?

 

[Ian Skippy]

Hehe, actually i was convinced you added a Guardian Shield Booster instead of a FSD booster.
I know it happened to me and i was wondering why my jump range still sucks. Luckily this lasted only seconds and it happened in the Outfitting section and not in the black.



Well, introducing fast travel - that is having any system in the bubble at a 1 jump distance - will have a great inconvenience on every activity that involves moving between the stars including, but not limited to, trading, powerplay and even pvp. Having the ultimate gank ship that is currently able to jump only 15 LY being able to get all over the bubble in only one jump seems beyond wrong.

But instead of making 'everything one jump', you could make traveling far less terrible in many other ways. The basic premise is that having a player do something to gain some result is better game design than having people do nothing at all is widely accepted as one of the basic foundations of game design. So while I know some here simply cannot bring themselves to acknowledge loading screens ecist, never mind think creatively about improvements, maybe the rest of the community can begin discussing these two questions: what coukd the player do during traveling and to what end?

I'll give two easy examples. 1) Use a scanner of sorts that can provide vague hints/info regarding nearby star systems. 2) Use some fuel injector techy thingy that allows you to save a bit of fuel per jumo, depending on how you perform.

The objective is to add some level of optional skill based gameplay to a part of the game that the player will endure for huge numbers of hours. Normal flight was always great, SC has been greatly improved since release. Now lets focus on the jumps.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

A what across the where now?

A ship (think crippled T6) that can only jump one parsec per week, facing a four parsec (or more) gap to it's destination, or half a year's travel the long way. The Spinward Marches are an area of the galaxy with spotty places to refuel at times. It's from a pen-and-paper game published in 1978. The guys who made it used a time machine to copy Elite from 1984.

 

[CoyoteXStarrk]

So you don't think Outfitting templates would be a useful QoL addition to the game? Interesting...

No I couldn't care less about that .

What I am saying is that I think you sitting in here throwing a hissy fit over your fully outfitted Anaconda "only" getting 34ly per jump is absolutely ridiculous. That is amazingly good jump range for a large outfitted ship and yet you are still finding reasons to complain about it. You are behaving like an entitled kid who is upset the drive to mall is taking too long.


It's a space simulator (A damn good one at that) and space is pretty big. It's gonna take time to go places in this game and that's not going to be changing anytime soon. You are never going to be able to instantly teleport across the Galaxy or even bubble. It ruins the entire point of this game being a simulation. If that upsets you then this might not be the game for you.

 

[GreyAreaUK]

But instead of making 'everything one jump', you could make traveling far less terrible in many other ways. The basic premise is that having a player do something to gain some result is better game design than having people do nothing at all is widely accepted as one of the basic foundations of game design. So while I know some here simply cannot bring themselves to acknowledge loading screens ecist, never mind think creatively about improvements, maybe the rest of the community can begin discussing these two questions: what coukd the player do during traveling and to what end?

{sigh} Yes, we know that the jump process is a loading screen. We get it. We just don't have to think of it as such. If you choose to, that's your fault not the game's.

And like I say, if you are proposing changes to one of the game's core aspects (and yes, jumping to other stars is a core aspect going back to the 1984 original) then your suggestion had better be damn good. Jump gates and wormholes aren't happening, so find something else. I've already stated that (IMHO) in-system SC could be improved through the use of some SC-equivalent to jumponium.

 

[CoyoteXStarrk]

{sigh} Yes, we know that the jump process is a loading screen. We get it. We just don't have to think of it as such. If you choose to, that's your fault not the game's.

And like I say, if you are proposing changes to one of the game's core aspects (and yes, jumping to other stars is a core aspect going back to the 1984 original) then your suggestion had better be damn good. Jump gates and wormholes aren't happening, so find something else. I've already stated that (IMHO) in-system SC could be improved through the use of some SC-equivalent to jumponium.

To be perfectly honest I never really thought of the jump screen as a loading screen until I saw it mentioned in here. It's a seemless transition with pretty awesome visual effects. And then on top of that it only takes like 15-30secs to get through and then bam you are in a new system.


The term "loading screen" has a very specific definition and look in my book and the jump screen does not fit into that definition.


Also the only time you would ever get large amounts of jump screens in quick succession is when you are traveling really far across the bubble for whatever reason or your ship just has a bad jump range. Otherwise most of the time you get less than 4 or 5 in my experience. It just depends on what type of activity you are doing.


But complaining about loading screens in a video game (especially short ones) just seems like nitpicking to me. You are looking for something to complain about in my opinion at that point.

 

[VR Golgot]

Hehe, actually i was convinced you added a Guardian Shield Booster instead of a FSD booster.
I know it happened to me and i was wondering why my jump range still sucks. Luckily this lasted only seconds and it happened in the Outfitting section and not in the black.

I'm not sure which would have been worse

Well, introducing fast travel - that is having any system in the bubble at a 1 jump distance - will have a great inconvenience on every activity that involves moving between the stars including, but not limited to, trading, powerplay and even pvp. Having the ultimate gank ship that is currently able to jump only 15 LY being able to get all over the bubble in only one jump seems beyond wrong.

I'm not pitching '1 jump arrival', for what it's worth. A 'jump to visited Nav beacon' variant would still be pegged to a jump gate, which would require initial transit (just shorter transit). And if anything I'm not leaning towards designated end-to-end gates being a better scenario, as it adds the 'arrival node' aspect, whereby people flooding towards an event would get channelled through predictible routes, creating piracy / smuggling hotspots etc.

Ultimately balances I have in mind are:

• Heavier ships manoeuvring poorly within the 'conduit', leading to more risk of damage heavy damage, early ejection & death.
• Death & damage risk generally acting as a balance to make it not a complete path of least resistance. Long-form travel would become the slower, safer option.
• Jump gates as high population 'nodes' which provide a similar functionality to interdiction in terms of security checks / interdictions etc during inter-system transits, but more focused into a blockade-runner scenario.

The biggest circle I haven't squared are rare goods and the ease of transport profit there (given there's little additional mass messing with your flight performance and adding risk etc).

What are the impacts on Powerplay that you're seeing?

 

[CoyoteXStarrk]

I'm not pitching '1 jump arrival', for what it's worth. A 'jump to visited Nav beacon' variant would still be pegged to a jump gate, which would require initial transit (just shorter transit). And if anything I'm not leaning towards designated end-to-end gates being a better scenario, as it adds the 'arrival node' aspect, whereby people flooding towards an event would get channelled through predictible routes, creating piracy / smuggling hotspots etc.

Ultimately balances I have in mind are:

• Heavier ships manoeuvring poorly within the 'conduit', leading to more risk of damage heavy damage, early ejection & death.
• Death & damage risk generally acting as a balance to make it not a complete path of least resistance. Long-form travel would become the slower, safer option.
• Jump gates as high population 'nodes' which provide a similar functionality to interdiction in terms of security checks / interdictions etc during inter-system transits, but more focused into a blockade-runner scenario.

The biggest circle I haven't squared are rare goods and the ease of transport profit there (given there's little additional mass messing with your flight performance and adding risk etc).

Well if those are the changes you want to the game I think its safe to say that its lucky for the community that you are not in charge of the game.