In game travel - the critical flaw?

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Exactly. In a another game those changes might be nice, but not ED.


Its not just my personal preference. Its literally the way the game was built to work. Once again if you don't like that then Elite Dangerous is just not the game for you.

Elite has changed a lot since launch, in comparable structural ways which altered how it was initially built to work. Neutron boosts, telepresence etc.

That's why these objections alone or not the 'end of argument' slam downs you guys like to portray them as.


No that is me getting tired of your style of discussion. You are not actually listening to anything anyone has to say to you about the matter. You condescendingly say what you wanna say, people respond and then you just keep on saying what you wanna say. Its like having a discussion with a particularly dense wall. There is no give and take. You just talk at people.

It also doesn't help that your emote spam makes you come off as a troll who is just trying stir crap up by arguing in bad faith which makes it that much harder to take any of what you have to say seriously. Especially when you are ignoring all of the problems with this line of logic that people have already pointed out in this thread. You are just willfully ignoring them.

This is a pretty angry misrepresentation of what I've been doing in the thread. I've regularly asked people to clarify their positions with examples so constructive conversation can actually take place, backed up my suggestions with citations from the dev team and examples from within game, drawn back from flawed arguments, and incorporated points raised by others into my pitch.

It's ironic that you're giving a pass to those debating with me who have frequently started from a point of pure dismissal and had to be wrestled into a dialogue based on facts, and indeed ignoring the passive-aggressive language being used by the same which I've personally resisted descending into. (Muppet, stupid, etc etc).

The emotes are my attempt to be friendly and show that no harm is meant, in what can become fraught exchanges. So they're obviously backfiring ;)


This game is a game built around a shared social space (The Bubble) and for better or worse this game IS a PvP game. If your asinine suggestions came to be then I would have literally no choice but to use them if I wanted to continue to take part in Community goals or Powerplay. Because if I didn't then I would be left in the dust by those that did. My travel times would be vastly longer than those who decided to take your fast travel options. They would be able to transport goods faster and they would be able to earn powerplay merits faster. Not only that, but they would be able to spread their factions influence faster as well. Which would put those who decided to use the fast travel system automatically ahead of those who didn't.

Whoop, ok cheers, this is feeback I can get my teeth into :)

The proposed balance to this is the risk of death. IE in CGs loads would be lost (as well as ships etc), providing a significant set back, and I suspect there'd be implications for PP too (data loss etc?)

The risk of death (& stranding delays etc) would come from from two main factors: Pilot error during the difficult transit (exacerbated for loaded trade vessels & heavy combat ships) + arrival at high density nodes (with hull damage).

I'd also question whether jump gate nodes (say placed at 100m LY intervals) would always be of immediate use once you're at the site of the CG &/or PP engagements. I would think most initial forays would be of a shorter range and better done in the classical way.

But these are exactly the sort of details that are worth discussing. (It's just annoying it alway takes so many generic dismissals first before we get to detailed ones ;))


So yes your little ideas WOULD affect the way that I enjoy the game. In fact they would destroy one of the things that I come to love about the game more than any other. Its Size. I have grown to love travelling around this enormous gamein my 700+ hours of playing. And the funny thing is I used to be like you and hated it. I would endlessly whine about travel times and ships that had poor jump ranges, but as time has gone on I have come to not only appreciate it, but love it. And being forced to pop from A to Z instead of actually taking the time to travel there would greatly diminish my ability to enjoy the game. In fact I would drop the game entirely at that point and I have a feeling that i wouldn't be the only one that would do that.

Well I can only repeat that my attempt with pitches like this is to accomodate both the old you and the new you.
 
Long distance can be achieved in the bubble too, you don't have to be outside of it.

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His focus there is pretty clearly on galactic ranges. Enough wiggle room for discussion of Bubble gates to be worthwhile anyway.
 
Well I can only repeat that my attempt with pitches like this is to accomodate both the old you and the new you.

Except it doesn't and I just explained to you in detail why it doesn't. It makes your way the only real way to play at a competitive level. But you don't care about that. You just hand waved it all away with a "yeah but I'm still right because reasons" and keep pushing your original ideas anyway as if I never spoke. I'm done giving you the attention you want though. Especially since its going nowhere. And as someone as already pointed out the Devs have already said that something like this will never make its way into the game so this is a waste of time and effort anyway. Changing the odd balance decision or mechanic is one thing, but what you are trying to do is change the game on a fundamental level and ruin everyone else's experience just because you don't like the way the game works. Which brings me back to my original response to all of this ridiculousness.


Don't like the game is fundamentally built? Nobody is forcing you to stay and play. The door is right there.
 

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His focus there is pretty clearly on galactic ranges. Enough wiggle room for discussion of Bubble gates to be worthwhile anyway.

He said "long distance" which can be in and out bubble, literally anywhere actually.
I'm not sure why you keep insisting with this idea of wormholes because "it could be inside the bubble".
It's not happening, he said it; 'no shortcut'.
 
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He said "long distance" which can be in and out bubble, literally anywhere actually.
I'm not sure why you keep insisting with this idea of wormholes because "it could be inside the bubble".
It's not happening, he said it; 'no shortcut'.
Honestly I just recommend to stop engaging with him. If you look at the last few pages and his responses to posts pointing out why he is wrong or out of touch you will see that he is just skating past the criticisms and keeps pushing the same points no matter what anyone says. I very clearly showed the flaws in his suggestions and his response was to say "No see I am still right because insert reason here".

Its not a discussion he is interested in. He is just talking at people and repeating himself.
 
Actually, that is a problem with the game. Repeating the same task with little to no variance for 5 hours is not gameplay. That's just time wasting.
If I want to do something tedious and not entertaining for 5 hours, I'd get a 2nd job.
One could argue that clicking virtual buttons in a virtual cockpit in DCS isn't gameplay, either. It's still a core feature of the experience as it's presented by the developers as a study sim. As a space sim, Elite is about flying in space. And because space is big, spending hours upon hours travelling through it is just part of the experience. And one I personally enjoy. So to me, it is gameplay.

I get it. You're in it for the destination. But Elite is about the journey. The destination is an afterthought. Always has been.
 

Guest193293

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Honestly I just recommend to stop engaging with him. If you look at the last few pages and his responses to posts pointing out why he is wrong or out of touch you will see that he is just skating past the criticisms and keeps pushing the same points no matter what anyone says. I very clearly showed the flaws in his suggestions and his response was to say "No see I am still right because insert reason here".

Its not a discussion he is interested in. He is just talking at people and repeating himself.

Yeah in any case this thread was pointless from the start.

o7
 
That's all fine. It's the zombie litany of 'play another game', when I advocate for gameplay styles that are clearly endorsed by both the game's marketing and design decisions. That's the stuff that's daft, unconsidered, & counter-productive.

Doubly-so when I always take alternate playstyles into account when pondering possible additions to the game :)

I get that a lot of it stems from people being protective of a game niche they feel is rare, and ergo emperilled in the gaming ecosystem. But damn if it isn't ironic when people dress that emotive push-back as a logical critiques, when they're frequently not ;). And again, doubly-so when my suggestions are aimed to not imperil their playstyle in the first place. ¯\(ツ)
Nope.

I'm telling you to play another game because that's what you seem to want, another game. What you're asking for IS another game: the X-series. It's not Elite. Elite is Elite. You don't show up to play a game of basketball and demand that you shouldn't have to dribble the ball because it's "not my playstyle", would you? Asking honestly.
 
Actually, that is a problem with the game. Repeating the same task with little to no variance for 5 hours is not gameplay. That's just time wasting.
If I want to do something tedious and not entertaining for 5 hours, I'd get a 2nd job.

That describes literally every game out there.

CoD? You are just loading into games and shooting people over and over and over again.

WoW? You are just doing quests and raids over and over and over again.

Borderlands? You are just doing missions, shooting enemies, and getting new guns over and over and over again.

Elite Dangerous? You are just flying around the galaxy shooting and scanning things for credits over and over and over again.


You see where I am going? Every game on the planet essentially boils down to performing the same gameplay loop over and over again in order to progress further. The only difference between them is what the gameplay loop consists of and whether or not you find the gameplay loop entertaining.
 
Except it doesn't and I just explained to you in detail why it doesn't.

I said it attempts to work for all parties. Of course it can fail in that aim.

The only way to improve its odds is outreach with those who disagree with it. Which is what I'm attempting.


It makes your way the only real way to play at a competitive level. But you don't care about that. You just hand waved it all away with a "yeah but I'm still right because reasons" and keep pushing your original ideas anyway as if I never spoke.

At no point did I dismiss your objections. I highlighted some possible aspects that might bring balance and elicited your feedback.

Don't like the game is fundamentally built? Nobody is forcing you to stay and play. The door is right there.

Don't like the fact that games can change within their remit, and even beyond it? Don't play modern games...

See, I can do daft tropes too ;)
 
Yeah in any case this thread was pointless from the start.

o7

It really was. I wish we could get this kind of notoriety (I mean 28 pages on pointless crap like this? Really?) on subjects that actually matter to the real community though. We could get a hell of alot more accomplished as a whole I think.
 
He said "long distance" which can be in and out bubble, literally anywhere actually.
I'm not sure why you keep insisting with this idea of wormholes because "it could be inside the bubble".
It's not happening, he said it; 'no shortcut'.

The question concerns shortcuts to 'different parts of the galaxy'. That's the context. Braben mentions chance meetings with players 'far, far out in the galaxy' when discussing why he doesn't envision such shortcuts.

So sure, maybe he means a blanket ban on wormholes style shortcuts there (Witchspace style jumps excepted, natch ;)). Context suggests he's primarily discussing classic exploration ranges in that example though.
 
Nope.

I'm telling you to play another game because that's what you seem to want, another game. What you're asking for IS another game: the X-series. It's not Elite. Elite is Elite. You don't show up to play a game of basketball and demand that you shouldn't have to dribble the ball because it's "not my playstyle", would you? Asking honestly.

Hello.

I'm not demanding anything.

If someone suggested a new rule for transit with the ball I'd give them a listen.

Honestly, that was a terrible analogy ;)
 
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The question concerns shortcuts to 'different parts of the galaxy'. That's the context. Braben mentions chance meetings with players 'far, far out in the galaxy' when discussing why he doesn't envision such shortcuts.
........

You need to just stop wiggling around this with specious "only in the bubble" nonsense and go fix your battleconda build. If you spent as much time on your game as you have in flogging this dead horse you would be a much happier bunny.
 
You need to just stop wiggling around this with specious "only in the bubble" nonsense and go fix your battleconda build. If you spent as much time on your game as you have in flogging this dead horse you would be a much happier bunny.

Y'all need to stop getting so defensive that you shout down perfectly anodyne conjectures ;)
 
If someone suggested a new rule for transit with the ball I'd give them a listen.

Honestly, that was a terrible analogy ;)

The other guys who are there to actually play basketball would get pretty annoyed with you I imagine.

And it was a pretty damn good analogy imo.
 
The other guys who are there to actually play basketball would get pretty annoyed with you I imagine.

"I know it's basketball but what if...hear me out...what if we could kick the ball in certain areas of the court? And/or pick it up and run with it? You don't have to if you don't want to, everyone's playstyle is catered to..." :)

(I jest, obviously)
 
The reminds me of a thread someone posted way back when I was playing Battlefield 2 (yes that long ago). He recommended just some small changes, third person view instead of first person, get rid of all the vehicles and make the maps much smaller. Basically he didn't like the idea of having to run anywhere and kept on getting killed by armour. For some reason he got as upset as some here when his idea wasn't met with accolades :D
 
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