Where can i find engineered NPC to fight with?

Duck & Jenny

Duck & Jenny
I hope I've helped you come around more to the idea that they aren't cheating half as much as you suggest.
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Your links to MoM's posts are compelling, though some of them are very old. There have been definite changes to AI and NPC builds in 3.3, not just from my observations but also based on some pretty big threads with lots of concurring observations. Some of these are improvements, some are acknowledged bugs that have yet to be fixed.

Your other compelling argument is PC vs console. Whether it be HOTAS or K&M, you'll likely have an advantage over those of us limited to DS4. Even if I were to get a PS4 HOTAS, our one supported HOTAS is pretty rubbish compared to some of the amazing flight sticks for PC. It would be nice if the game could detect what controller we are using and make NPCs use a "virtual" match for that controller (the programmed delays). That's just me dreaming, not necessarily a complaint.

Anyway, my biggest beef with NPCs is not whether they are easy or hard, but rather if they are "realistic" for their rank, and now with some thought, their platform (console vs PC). I expect an Elite NPC flying an FDL to flip on a dime and stick to me like glue. I do not expect a competent Beluga pilot charged with protecting his passengers to be able to do this, nor should he even be trying to do this. He should be launching his SLF while he himself makes his escape, perhaps dropping mines or firing off torpedoes or some other "defensive" maneuver. Again, just my opinion.

I still think NPCs cheat, but only half as much as I originally thought ;)
 

Aashenfox

Aashenfox
Fair enough. I certainly agree their behavior isn't all that realistic, however, there are people on both sides of this fence. I wish the ai would get a huge buff and be much more challenging across the board, but I admit that would be very hard on new players. Similarly there are many who still say the ai is too hard. I think the general lack of serious and well thought out complaints about the ai tells a story that they are in a decent place at the moment, minor cheating aside. :)
 

Northpin

Northpin
I play on xbox, using the standard controller with the default layout - so not really efficient piloting.

When getting in a High Intensity CZ in my fully engineered Corvette, i hardly have any issues with NPC's even when the entire SpecOps wing is focusing me.
Thing are a bit different when i get in there with my Cutter outfitted as an armed trader (6c biweaves and no SCB's) - as in i have to boost away when focused by all 4 SpecOps ships, then come back and try to pick them one by one.

The point is that I never thought the NPC's are cheating. Yes, they can be quite tough, but still entertaining for my leisurely style of play.
 

Schmack

Schmack
Aashenfox said:
Engineered NPCs can be found in...

wing assassinations
pirate activity
combat zones
atr (not engineered so much as god-moded)

The combat zone enemies are by miles the strongest engineered, with almost all having engineered shields and hulls.

Now to the silly statements of cheating NPCs... NPCs don't have infinite anything except MC ammo and point defense ammo. They have limited chaff, SCBs, heatsinks, and DO take heat damage. They DO have to manage their pips, they CANNOT fly FA off and do not have super thrusters allowing them to turn faster than us, or 'flip on a dime' as people so frequently contend. I think maybe the speed of combat is causing time to pass more quickly for those people, relativity and all that. ;)

The two major cheats they do, are 1) If they wake out, their ship can be repaired and interdicting you again as few as 10 seconds later, and 2) impossible jump ranges...Aside from the aforementioned infinitte MC ammo, which is specifically to avoid them runnin out of ammo and waking out of combat.
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I don't think you can mass lock them. I've tried to keep them from jumping by mass locking but they don't seem affected.

I don't know if you can breach their canopies. I've only been able to disable a few without needing to take their hull or power plant to zero.

I think the "cheating" claim is a joke actually. It speaks to immersion to think the computer is hacking itself as those ships "cannot do that!"
 

Norwin Palmer

Norwin Palmer
I find the hit squads factions send after me when they decide I have done something "bad" to be challenging. My favorite method is accepting a bunch of delivery missions, abandon the missions, and selling the cargo on the black market.

At one time (supposedly patched now) NPCs could jump while making a strafing run. So they are coming directly at me guns blazing and suddenly wink out right in front of me, all that is left is their wake marker. Actual proof that NPCs do not follow the player rules, and if it is proven that they cheat in one thing it is not unreasonable to (but not proven) think that they could cheat at everything. This is not an aspersion on Fdev it is the way AI in games is commonly handled.

The results they get may be well within what a player could be expected to get but the method they employ would still likely be by cheating. If I legitimately make 100 on a test where the average was 31 I might still be suspected of cheating, if I made 78 where the average was 82 I probably would not be suspected of cheating even though I was.
 

Aashenfox

Aashenfox
Schmack said:
I don't think you can mass lock them. I've tried to keep them from jumping by mass locking but they don't seem affected.

I don't know if you can breach their canopies. I've only been able to disable a few without needing to take their hull or power plant to zero.

I think the "cheating" claim is a joke actually. It speaks to immersion to think the computer is hacking itself as those ships "cannot do that!"
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I think you might be right on the mass lock thing, although, they more commonly high wake than low wake, so that's a tough one to remember to observe, I'll try to though. :) And the other one they used to do but was fixed recently, was jump with their hardpoints still firing. I also expect that you are not able to breach their canopies, and that that would probably not affect their aim with PAs, as it should, however, I'm ok with their damage not being modeled to that degree.
 

Aashenfox

Aashenfox
By the way boys and girls, I know it's a pita, but I bit the bullet recently and unlocked some guardian gear and tried fighting some thargoids. I can comfortably solo a cyclops now, but anything bigger than that kicks my ass (in a medium ship). As a squadron we're doing a regular Thargoid night now. Going ot the CZs with a wing of competent players, I highly recommend it if you're looking for a challenge, those Thargoids are by far the most challenging pve content in the game right now, and require proper coordination and strategy to defeat. The fact they're already nearly at Earth is also a reason to pick up this skill. ;)
 

Mangal Oemie

Mangal Oemie
Aashenfox said:
Engineered NPCs can be found in...

wing assassinations
pirate activity
combat zones
atr (not engineered so much as god-moded)

The combat zone enemies are by miles the strongest engineered, with almost all having engineered shields and hulls.

Now to the silly statements of cheating NPCs... NPCs don't have infinite anything except MC ammo and point defense ammo. They have limited chaff, SCBs, heatsinks, and DO take heat damage. They DO have to manage their pips, they CANNOT fly FA off and do not have super thrusters allowing them to turn faster than us, or 'flip on a dime' as people so frequently contend. I think maybe the speed of combat is causing time to pass more quickly for those people, relativity and all that. ;)

The two major cheats they do, are 1) If they wake out, their ship can be repaired and interdicting you again as few as 10 seconds later, and 2) impossible jump ranges...Aside from the aforementioned infinitte MC ammo, which is specifically to avoid them runnin out of ammo and waking out of combat.
Click to expand...

3. Advanced Tactical Response ships use shield-destroying station guns that otherwise don't exist in the galaxy. Especially funny when fitted to vultures.
 

Schmack

Schmack
Norwin Palmer said:
I find the hit squads factions send after me when they decide I have done something "bad" to be challenging. My favorite method is accepting a bunch of delivery missions, abandon the missions, and selling the cargo on the black market.

At one time (supposedly patched now) NPCs could jump while making a strafing run. So they are coming directly at me guns blazing and suddenly wink out right in front of me, all that is left is their wake marker. Actual proof that NPCs do not follow the player rules, and if it is proven that they cheat in one thing it is not unreasonable to (but not proven) think that they could cheat at everything. This is not an aspersion on Fdev it is the way AI in games is commonly handled.

The results they get may be well within what a player could be expected to get but the method they employ would still likely be by cheating. If I legitimately make 100 on a test where the average was 31 I might still be suspected of cheating, if I made 78 where the average was 82 I probably would not be suspected of cheating even though I was.
Click to expand...
I don't think you can sell mission cargo on the BM these days.
 

Schmack

Schmack
Aashenfox said:
By the way boys and girls, I know it's a pita, but I bit the bullet recently and unlocked some guardian gear and tried fighting some thargoids. I can comfortably solo a cyclops now, but anything bigger than that kicks my *** (in a medium ship). As a squadron we're doing a regular Thargoid night now. Going ot the CZs with a wing of competent players, I highly recommend it if you're looking for a challenge, those Thargoids are by far the most challenging pve content in the game right now, and require proper coordination and strategy to defeat. The fact they're already nearly at Earth is also a reason to pick up this skill. ;)
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How long does it take to unlock Guardian gear?
 

Northpin

Northpin
Took me half day to get enough materials to unlock 4-5 modules. First two runs were quite challenging - the site being in the pitch black :oops:
Tho I haven't gotten into weapons/fighters yet
 

Aashenfox

Aashenfox
Schmack said:
How long does it take to unlock Guardian gear?
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Yeh, couple of hours, it's not that bad once you get the hang of it (follow a guide or get someone to show you, even better, one of the squadron members took me to a site and ran me through it, was cake to get the rest of the blueprints). All you really need is large shard cannon, medium gauss cannon, and from the human tech broker, the remote flak launcher. Engineering is dead simple cos you don't care at all about resistances you just want pure mj and hull points. Teh KRait mk2 is a great AX boat either with 3 gauss a flak and a heal beam for wing usage or 2 large shard, 2 medium gauss and a flak for solo efforts.
 

Bob Lighthouse

Banned
Bob Lighthouse
Duck & Jenny said:
Your links to MoM's posts are compelling, though some of them are very old. There have been definite changes to AI and NPC builds in 3.3, not just from my observations but also based on some pretty big threads with lots of concurring observations. Some of these are improvements, some are acknowledged bugs that have yet to be fixed.

Your other compelling argument is PC vs console. Whether it be HOTAS or K&M, you'll likely have an advantage over those of us limited to DS4. Even if I were to get a PS4 HOTAS, our one supported HOTAS is pretty rubbish compared to some of the amazing flight sticks for PC. It would be nice if the game could detect what controller we are using and make NPCs use a "virtual" match for that controller (the programmed delays). That's just me dreaming, not necessarily a complaint.

Anyway, my biggest beef with NPCs is not whether they are easy or hard, but rather if they are "realistic" for their rank, and now with some thought, their platform (console vs PC). I expect an Elite NPC flying an FDL to flip on a dime and stick to me like glue. I do not expect a competent Beluga pilot charged with protecting his passengers to be able to do this, nor should he even be trying to do this. He should be launching his SLF while he himself makes his escape, perhaps dropping mines or firing off torpedoes or some other "defensive" maneuver. Again, just my opinion.

I still think NPCs cheat, but only half as much as I originally thought ;)
Click to expand...


Even elite ranked NPCs are terrible cannon fodder.
 

MikelGTC

M
Bob Lighthouse said:
Even elite ranked NPCs are terrible cannon fodder.
Click to expand...
Yup. I have zero problems killing 2 elite condas at the same time on ps4 with standard controller, being in my python or krait. Did dozens of CZs, had to run maybe 2 or 3 times at the beginning when I was careless or impatient and got aggro from 2-3 spec ops at once. Never died in CZ and I consider myself very avarage pilot barely doing fa off.However all my ships that I use are fully engineered.
 

MikelGTC

M
Yeah not really expert but based on my own Annie I know that it likes to "slide" a lot when doing sharp boost turns maybe that is the case?
 
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