Enemy ships Queuing up to take your Ceramic Composites and Bio Waste?

[YRM_DM]

It's especially obvious with repair station missions, but no mission makes more sense to stack than trade missions right? If you have 300 cargo space, why would you only take one mission to retrieve 5 Ceramic Composite right, when you're going to the same place to get the Composite, why wouldn't you stack as many of these missions as possible?

Now, if you've done this, you know that Elite Dangerous sends 3-4 of the same ship to interdict your ship and steal this cargo for each mission, almost universally. The only variety is that there's sometimes a time bonus instead of incoming enemies.

If you take 10 missions to bring back a grand total of 90 units of Ceramic Composite at a repair station, expect to see 30-40 Elite Anacondas, Dangerous FDLs, Deadly Vultures just queuing up behind you in supercruise, one after the other, to interdict you, die, then the next interdicts you, dies... then the next... then the next... I feel like I should just sell tickets? Maybe have a cover charge to get in?

On the plus side, it's free high level components, big bounties, and mission bonus for each kill.

On the down side, it really takes you out of game immersion like nothing else. Why would the enemy send 400,000,000 CR ships with ELITE pilots to steal my 5 units of Ceramic Composite? Why would each mission send the exact same type of ships? Why would they keep coming after I killed the first 1, 2, or 3? How do they all manage to appear directly behind me in Supercruise the second I enter Supercruise? Why doesn't evasive maneuvering in Supercruise help? The way enemies come at you on trade missions is like a bunch of people lining up to get punched in the face.

I love this game, and I know Frontier can't fix everything, but here are some constructive suggestions to make this better that would be relatively easy to patch

1 - Lower the number of incoming ships, OR base it on the actual value of the cargo... so 3-4 ships will ONLY come after me if I'm hauling 180 tons of Robotics, not 5 tons of BioWaste.

2 - Add variety to the incoming ships, so that perhaps the first is the Anaconda, and the second is a Krait Mk2, etc.

3 - Add some variety to what can actually happen... besides time bonuses or incoming enemies, what about things like this:

• UNIVERSAL: It's less likely for a faction to attack you if you're on good terms with them, so being on good terms with most of the groups in a few systems where you're trading will lower the likelihood of interdiction.
• COMMON: If you've already blown up 4-5 interdicts in the same system, maybe the next guy radios you and says... "I'm not stupid, I'm not taking on your ship."
• COMMON: Sometimes you deliver the cargo and nothing at all happens, nobody queues up, it's just a normal, uneventful trade mission.
• UNCOMMON: There's a follow-up mission where the station you deliver to asks you to source more of the same item, they didn't order enough.
• RARE: The other faction approaches you and offers to buy the cargo at a higher price, causing success with that new faction, failure/fine/wanted with the original faction.
• RARE: If the port you're delivering to has a black market, a pirate faction approaches you and asks you to try to sneak some illegal goods into the port along with your legal cargo. This'd make it so you'd want to leave 5-10 tons of room in your hold. Then you deliver your cargo and also deliver the illegal goods, which you have to sneak past port-scans. If you refuse, the pirate might attack if your rep with their faction is below cordial.
• RARE: On a similar note, a criminal or spy asks to be snuck into port in a life-pod. If you're caught, you face fines and loss of reputation. If you sneak in, you have the choice of turning the criminal over to authority or sneaking him/her in... and getting and losing rewards and reputation from either faction.
• VERY RARE: For food-stuff deliveries, the enemy faction offers you a counter-mission to contaminate the food but still deliver the food, creating a small chance of causing an outbreak. You will then face bounty hunting and a wanted state from the faction that you delivered this food to.

 

[Factabulous]

Report your post and ask for it to be moved to Suggestions.

 

[VR CMDR Novindus]

This game loop could definitely benefit from some common sense validation, as well as some variety.

+1

 

[Tikanderoga]

5 tons of BioWaste.

All that tasty cargo!

 

[Bloodsign]

All your poo are belong to us.

We likes gardening.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

The eagle has soiled the nest, repeat, the eagle has soiled the nest....

 

[metatheurgist]

So many simple things that could be done to immensely improve this game, as opposed to...other things.

 

[Tikanderoga]

So many simple things that could be done to immensely improve this game, as opposed to...other things.

There was a really great thread about this, pointing out so many immersion breaking flaws and "generic solutions". Not sure how many/if FDev took any of those on board or will even implement to fix. Littel things, that would improve the game by a lot.

 

[Shiro Akai]

Why would the enemy send 400,000,000 CR ships with ELITE pilots to steal my 5 units of Ceramic Composite? Why would each mission send the exact same type of ships? Why would they keep coming after I killed the first 1, 2, or 3? How do they all manage to appear directly behind me in Supercruise the second I enter Supercruise? Why doesn't evasive maneuvering in Supercruise help? The way enemies come at you on trade missions is like a bunch of people lining up to get punched in the face.

I love this game, and I know Frontier can't fix everything, but here are some constructive suggestions to make this better that would be relatively easy to patch

1 - Lower the number of incoming ships, OR base it on the actual value of the cargo... so 3-4 ships will ONLY come after me if I'm hauling 180 tons of Robotics, not 5 tons of

I will sound like broken music box, but... IF-THEN design at it's best.

NPC spawning mechanics looks like this:

• IF <player> has [cargo_grade_5], THEN spawn dangerous+ pirate
• IF <player> enter SC, THEN spawn NPC directly behind
• IF <player> has [mission_count] missios active, THEN spawn [mission_count] NPCs
• IF <player> combat rank is {rank}, THEN NPC ship type is {rank_table}
• IF <system_economy> is [economy_type], THEN spawn...

etc.

There are lots of conditions and game just checks what is active and takes many things under consideration. The resulting calculations give you what you have desctribed. One mission and you get Elite Anaconda pirate tail. Take few missions and all of them get their own tail. Add system economy, population, your ranks, mission rank, distance to target, commodity type, commodity value and rarity as factors and you get what you got.

Game do not check for calculations stacking, it just calculates various factors and throw a solution. The more factors, the more results. I'm no dev but reading examples like t his it feels it works that way.

Why would the enemy send 400,000,000 CR ships with ELITE pilots to steal my 5 units of Ceramic Composite?
Because it's a result of calculations. CC means high value commodity so NPC threat level must match it. It wouldn't be a "Dangerous" to face Harmless Adder.

Why would each mission send the exact same type of ships?
Because missions are exact same type. Game calculates same conditions and get same results.

Why would they keep coming after I killed the first 1, 2, or 3?
Because lack of persistency and a matter of "ticking out" the condition set for each mission. You get 3 missions, each mission get it's own pirate. Each pirate has his own "tick box" which consist of:

• NPC pirates you, condition met, condition terminated
• player get to destination without NPC intervention, condition terminated
• player avoided interdiction attempt, condition terminated
• player submitted interdiction (three subconditions: NPC pirates you, you escape, you kill him), condition terminated

Whenever one of above is met, this particular NPC will no longer bother you. But there are 2 more waiting in line, hencethey keep comming.

How do they all manage to appear directly behind me in Supercruise the second I enter Supercruise?
IF <player> has [mission_cargo]
IF <player> has entered SC
THEN spawn NPC
Simple, no persistency, no real living world, just conditions met, situations happen.

Why doesn't evasive maneuvering in Supercruise help?
Because NPCs cheat. They get insane acceleration, they can interdict you from way beyond range, from almost any angle. Because they have a simple condition - IF cargo, THEN interdict.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

I certainly agree with the sentiment here. We need to have some sort of “reputation” system for NPC’s to recognize.

Let’s say I hire you to go beat someone up. That someone is “George M. Pulzwiki”, a 51 year old accountant. You don’t think too much of this at all.

But if that person were, say, Conor McGregor, or Daniel Cormier... you might have multiple thoughts about this (if you don’t know, Daniel is the current UFC Heavyweight Champion, and Conor McGregor is a former UFC fighter and potentially mentally unstable).

We should illicit some similar reactions as well... got a 100,000 to 1 KDR? NPC’s should be reluctant to pick a fight. Escaped your 10,000 Interdiction attempt? This too should be reflected. Usually jettison everything including the kitchen sink while you run screaming? That should also be known and reflected.

 

[YRM_DM]

I will sound like broken music box, but... IF-THEN design at it's best.

NPC spawning mechanics looks like this:

• IF <player> has [cargo_grade_5], THEN spawn dangerous+ pirate
• IF <player> enter SC, THEN spawn NPC directly behind
• IF <player> has [mission_count] missios active, THEN spawn [mission_count] NPCs
• IF <player> combat rank is {rank}, THEN NPC ship type is {rank_table}
• IF <system_economy> is [economy_type], THEN spawn...

etc.

There are lots of conditions and game just checks what is active and takes many things under consideration. The resulting calculations give you what you have desctribed. One mission and you get Elite Anaconda pirate tail. Take few missions and all of them get their own tail. Add system economy, population, your ranks, mission rank, distance to target, commodity type, commodity value and rarity as factors and you get what you got.

Game do not check for calculations stacking, it just calculates various factors and throw a solution. The more factors, the more results. I'm no dev but reading examples like t his it feels it works that way.

Why would the enemy send 400,000,000 CR ships with ELITE pilots to steal my 5 units of Ceramic Composite?
Because it's a result of calculations. CC means high value commodity so NPC threat level must match it. It wouldn't be a "Dangerous" to face Harmless Adder.

Why would each mission send the exact same type of ships?
Because missions are exact same type. Game calculates same conditions and get same results.

Why would they keep coming after I killed the first 1, 2, or 3?
Because lack of persistency and a matter of "ticking out" the condition set for each mission. You get 3 missions, each mission get it's own pirate. Each pirate has his own "tick box" which consist of:

• NPC pirates you, condition met, condition terminated
• player get to destination without NPC intervention, condition terminated
• player avoided interdiction attempt, condition terminated
• player submitted interdiction (three subconditions: NPC pirates you, you escape, you kill him), condition terminated

Whenever one of above is met, this particular NPC will no longer bother you. But there are 2 more waiting in line, hencethey keep comming.

How do they all manage to appear directly behind me in Supercruise the second I enter Supercruise?
IF <player> has [mission_cargo]
IF <player> has entered SC
THEN spawn NPC
Simple, no persistency, no real living world, just conditions met, situations happen.

Why doesn't evasive maneuvering in Supercruise help?
Because NPCs cheat. They get insane acceleration, they can interdict you from way beyond range, from almost any angle. Because they have a simple condition - IF cargo, THEN interdict.

I get all this... I was suggesting that adding some "if/then" statements would help make this seem realistic rather than unrealistic.

Your explanation makes sense, and I know that there are only so many hours in a sprint... but it's a "dev explanation" to a gaming experience that ruins immersion.

Why not tweak the numbers of those above "if/then" statements?

Maybe instead of sending 4 of the same ship, one after the other... send one wing of smaller ships.
Maybe instead of having them insta-queue directly behind the player... add a line that has them appear after a random countdown... 30sec to 2min... and add a variable to where they appear in relation to the player... plus or minus X degrees in a random direction.
All of the suggestions that I wrote were also "if/then" nature so it'd be a matter of expanding the options, and expanding the % on which "nothing happens" is an option.

We used to add random variables to old school Flash games, so I'm sure they can add them to a game like this which is so much more robust.

Because we're not going to argue that players SHOULDN'T stack repair missions right? It can't possibly be the design intent of repair missions that request 5-9 Ceramic Composites, Polymers, Superconductors, Semiconductors, and Synthetic Fabrics... all of which can be purchased at the same place... they can't possibly think that players shouldn't or wouldn't stack those missions?

It had to be a design choice, intentional, that they wanted players to stack those missions. So suggesting a fix like this is just reasonable I think?

 

[YRM_DM]

I certainly agree with the sentiment here. We need to have some sort of “reputation” system for NPC’s to recognize.

Let’s say I hire you to go beat someone up. That someone is “George M. Pulzwiki”, a 51 year old accountant. You don’t think too much of this at all.

But if that person were, say, Conor McGregor, or Daniel Cormier... you might have multiple thoughts about this (if you don’t know, Daniel is the current UFC Heavyweight Champion, and Conor McGregor is a former UFC fighter and potentially mentally unstable).

We should illicit some similar reactions as well... got a 100,000 to 1 KDR? NPC’s should be reluctant to pick a fight. Escaped your 10,000 Interdiction attempt? This too should be reflected. Usually jettison everything including the kitchen sink while you run screaming? That should also be known and reflected.

I love the UFC reference. I've done plenty of sparring and in fact, when a guy is training for a fight, his partners literally do queue up to get in the ring/cage and get a fresh guy beat up every round... so maybe that's what they're going for here. lol

The galaxy is big enough that I get most reputations being localized to factions, or to the ruling government... Bob the Pirate might not know I just killed 40 other pirates two systems over.

But in the same system, where the queue of 30 bad guys can literally watch me making new Signal Sources of combat wreckage out of their best friends right in front of them?

Some of the game design, as people have pointed out, in this otherwise great game does seem to be vindictive towards the user... maybe they sit around at the bar after a 16 hour work day and talk about how to best punish the user for the time they've put into this game. "Let's have him run a 12 jump round trip, 5x, to unlock an engineer! And let's prevent the pilot from sitting in port or requesting an order of 50 of something while they go do other things!"

So if all this stuff is intentionally designed to punish the user because the game is generally very good and maybe we complain too much... then I guess good job?

 

[IndigoWyrd]

“We’re wanted men. I have the death sentence in 12 systems,”
“I’ll be careful.”
“You’ll be dead!”

- Conversation between Luke Skywalker and a nameless criminal of no importance, in the Mos Eisley cantina.

 

[YRM_DM]

“We’re wanted men. I have the death sentence in 12 systems,”
“I’ll be careful.”
“You’ll be dead!”

- Conversation between Luke Skywalker and a nameless criminal of no importance, in the Mos Eisley cantina.

Imagine your level of immersion in Star Wars if, after Obi-Wan cut the arm off nameless criminal #1... the door opened and the same criminal walked in, and said the same thing... Obi-Wan cuts the arm off criminal #2... the door opens and the same criminal walks in, saying the same thing... repeat... "Warning, there are more incoming enemies, stay alert."

By the end, there's a pile of 32 walrus men with arms cut off lying on the floor of the Mos Eisley Cantina.

Later when they ask George Lucas about it, he says, "It's a good scene right? So I thought subjecting the audience to it 30+ times would make sure they really got the experience of that scene!"

 

[Tikanderoga]

Imagine your level of immersion in Star Wars if, after Obi-Wan cut the arm off nameless criminal #1... the door opened and the same criminal walked in, and said the same thing... Obi-Wan cuts the arm off criminal #2... the door opens and the same criminal walks in, saying the same thing... repeat... "Warning, there are more incoming enemies, stay alert."

By the end, there's a pile of 32 walrus men with arms cut off lying on the floor of the Mos Eisley Cantina.

Later when they ask George Lucas about it, he says, "It's a good scene right? So I thought subjecting the audience to it 30+ times would make sure they really got the experience of that scene!"

This would be only more accurate if the criminals were clad in some power armor and wearing about 400'000 Cr worth of gear - each!
As someone who played Star Wars RPGs, that'd be a LOT of gear. We are talking several starships worth.

 

[Schmack]

The solution is to only take one mission. Technically if you're on 20 or so missions at the same time, you're not really on any one mission. I also stack to maximize efficiency but when you stack these things you know what you're getting into. Just drop into an instance and wait for them to pop in, sometimes two or three at a time. I've had them start shooting each other.

 

[YRM_DM]

The solution is to only take one mission. Technically if you're on 20 or so missions at the same time, you're not really on any one mission. I also stack to maximize efficiency but when you stack these things you know what you're getting into. Just drop into an instance and wait for them to pop in, sometimes two or three at a time. I've had them start shooting each other.

Right... but seriously? You're in an Imperial Corvette that can carry over 300 tons, and there's a repair mission for 5 tons of Ceramic Composite. There are 20 more missions just like that, and a bunch more for Polymers and Super and Semi Conductors. Are you really going to take 1 mission, jump over to a nearby system, land on a planet, buy 5 Ceramic Composites, come back... fight the 4 Elite Anacondas that interdict you to get those 5 tons of Ceramic Composites, and then do it again?

I'm not asking for a player driven solution really. I could just uninstall the game, or throw my PS4 out the window and go work out. Those are both solutions that also solve the problem on the player side. I could just never take another merchant mission. Lol.

It sort of seems like the creators of Elite do, to some extent, care about this game. Progress is slow, the story is slow... but there are a ton of details that they do get right.

In No Man's Sky, I had to fight off friendly aliens trying to hand me all the best stuff in the game for free, and there was nothing to do with that stuff. Hello Games went and improved this quite a bit, but it's still not the "feel" of Elite Dangerous where I can be killed just trying to dock my ship if I'm not careful or if I forget to request permission to land. I like the feel that "something" might happen that is actually dangerous. I like the way the ships handle, and the way the weapons work. I've enjoyed engineering my ship (but not some of the grind)

So let's assume for a minute that occasionally, someone scours these forums and suggestions are brought up in a scrum, and maybe they're added to the list and land in a patch 3 months from now.

It'd be a pretty easy thing to improve the way these missions are handled. One developer spending maybe a day coding, at most... then playtest... and these missions would be 100x improved. Let's assume there's a chance Frontier cares... I am, and that's why I made this post.

 

[The Chairmaker]

Your doing it all wrong.

What you should do is as follows.

Check the mission board to see if multiple factions want specific products.

Visit a station that sells specific products.

Fly back to originating staiton.

Accept missions, then complete them, with the goods you have just purchased.

Jobs a good un, few or interdictions and lots of money made.

Ceramic composites missions are pretty much guaranteed from my experience to generate on repairing stations.
Also i find Polymers and Superconductors also tend to be in great demand.

 

[Clifra Jones]

Right... but seriously? You're in an Imperial Corvette that can carry over 300 tons, and there's a repair mission for 5 tons of Ceramic Composite. There are 20 more missions just like that, and a bunch more for Polymers and Super and Semi Conductors. Are you really going to take 1 mission, jump over to a nearby system, land on a planet, buy 5 Ceramic Composites, come back... fight the 4 Elite Anacondas that interdict you to get those 5 tons of Ceramic Composites, and then do it again?

I'm not asking for a player driven solution really. I could just uninstall the game, or throw my PS4 out the window and go work out. Those are both solutions that also solve the problem on the player side. I could just never take another merchant mission. Lol.

It sort of seems like the creators of Elite do, to some extent, care about this game. Progress is slow, the story is slow... but there are a ton of details that they do get right.

In No Man's Sky, I had to fight off friendly aliens trying to hand me all the best stuff in the game for free, and there was nothing to do with that stuff. Hello Games went and improved this quite a bit, but it's still not the "feel" of Elite Dangerous where I can be killed just trying to dock my ship if I'm not careful or if I forget to request permission to land. I like the feel that "something" might happen that is actually dangerous. I like the way the ships handle, and the way the weapons work. I've enjoyed engineering my ship (but not some of the grind)

So let's assume for a minute that occasionally, someone scours these forums and suggestions are brought up in a scrum, and maybe they're added to the list and land in a patch 3 months from now.

It'd be a pretty easy thing to improve the way these missions are handled. One developer spending maybe a day coding, at most... then playtest... and these missions would be 100x improved. Let's assume there's a chance Frontier cares... I am, and that's why I made this post.

As folks have said, You stack the missions be aware of what you are getting yourself into.

Regarding if Fdev will fix it, I believe they will eventually try.
IMO:
Be careful what you ask for. Many of us "asked" to get the pirate massacre missions fixes. Fdev tried and IMO failed misserably. It was asked to improve how wars were faught and again, IMO this "fix" is worse that what we had before.

The whole mission structure to me needs to be reworked. It has got to the point for me that I look at the missions being offered in the stations I have Allied status with most of the factions and I like, MEH! Unless I need the Mats the credit rewards are pawltry as I have billions from Opal mining. I am looking for fun but that is just not there. I'll take a kill the pirate lord and even stack a few of those for the fun but lately those are dorked up. i.e. Mission Target USS found 3kls away, Target and fly towards it. Then, mission target interdicts me from behind! WTH?

I've taken to just running cargo in my Anaconda not really making a lot of credits hoping I get interdicted just for the fun of poppng a few pirates.

 

[Clifra Jones]

Your doing it all wrong.

What you should do is as follows.

Check the mission board to see if multiple factions want specific products.

Visit a station that sells specific products.

Fly back to originating staiton.

Accept missions, then complete them, with the goods you have just purchased.

Jobs a good un, few or interdictions and lots of money made.

Ceramic composites missions are pretty much guaranteed from my experience to generate on repairing stations.
Also i find Polymers and Superconductors also tend to be in great demand.

I don't think he was aksing for a way to "get around the interdictions". He was commenting on how the whole process is, well, kind of silly!