From boy to man in a weekend

[zipline]

Rails don't suffer damage penalty against large ships so there's no downside to the size 2 hardpoint with those in place.
Oh, and my rails I gave short range mod to, and plasma slug so I didn't have to think about ammo, at all! People skip over short range mod, but I would find it super hard to hit with the rails at any longer range than that anyway, so I only fire them when I'm up close and likely to land the shot. 60% more damage is huge for me.

Thanks cmdr, I don't understand this whole damage penalty concept, care to explain or point me at an old post?
I "want" to try rails and PAs but it feels too early for fixed weapons for me. Maybe I need to try them all without the effort of engineering and then only engineer the ones that work for me ... hmmm.

 

[zipline]

Some broad advice in general.

Thanks cmdr, I haven't quoted your whole post but there is loads in there for me to chew on. Agree about rez vs CZ fot mats. Re CZ, I was after heat of the battle experience plus combat bonds for an engineer, are there any better ways to get combat bonds?

 

[GreyAreaUK]

Hoover all the mats you can in REZ sites, it's much easier than in CZs.

However, it's worth pointing out that you'll get different mats in each. Fairly sure I only ever see Grid Resistors in CZs.

 

[zipline]

For an easy to handle starter kit, I'd use two large lasers, either efficient beams or focused pulse and a pair of multicannons, high capacity with corrosive experimental. The corrosive effect of the MCs will make it easier for the lasers to damage hull, too.

Interesting, so high cap rather than overcharged? I may just try a couple of medium MCs with just enough G1 engineering to get the corrosive mod on one of them and give it a go.

 

[Vardaugas]

Interesting, so high cap rather than overcharged? I may just try a couple of medium MCs with just enough G1 engineering to get the corrosive mod on one of them and give it a go.

I like high cap because it gives you longer standing power in a CZ or Res site before you need rearming, while also increasing RoF for a DPS increase. And it compensates for the ammo penalty of the corrosive mod. Focused pulse (or burst) lasers have the advantage of increased optimal range, which means you do have a higher effective engagement range. To make the most out of lasers, you either have to long range mod them or stay real close. If you don't mind the spool up and ammo use, you could also just go with incendiary modded large multicannons. Better optimal than lasers and still do full thermal damage.

 

[zipline]

If you don't mind the spool up and ammo use, you could also just go with incendiary modded large multicannons. Better optimal than lasers and still do full thermal damage.

Yes, I have read before about all MC with incendiary mod for shields and hull, have you every tried that and do you know if that mod stacks?

 

[Vardaugas]

Yes, I have read before about all MC with incendiary mod for shields and hull, have you every tried that and do you know if that mod stacks?

Incendiary experimental mod only changes the damage type from kinetic to thermal. Nothing is stacking there, you need to do that for every gun. Corrosive isn't stacking either but it is enough when one gun is applying it at a time, though I tend to go with symmetry just because symmetry. On my hauler Python I am using a full MC loadout and it is working well enough.

 

[Stealthie]

I have Krait Mk2s and Pythons all fitted with 3x C3 Efficient beams and 2x C2 Long Range M/Cs and it never ceases to amaze me how quickly I can burst any NPC ship.
The beams all have the Oversized XFX and the M/Cs have Corrosive and Incindiary XFX.

I have 1 fire-group with just the lasers on it and another with lasers & M/Cs.
Start off with just the lasers firing and then bring the M/Cs on line (if required) when the shields go down.
Alternatively, if it's a tough ship, or you just need to get the job done extra-fast, bring the M/Cs on line straight away.

Never had any problems with this on a Python but I have noticed I get heat warnings sometimes on the Kraits.
Not sure if this is 'cos the Python handles heat better or if it's 'cos the Krait's agility means it can stay on-target for longer but, in either case, if it was a big deal I might consider applying the Thermal Vent XFX to one of the beams to fix it.

Obviously, the Phantom's got one less C3 hardpoint but if I was building a fighty Phantom, I'd probably go with a pair of C3 beams and a pair of C2 M/Cs.
The Corrosive XFX makes a helluva difference to the ability to do hull damage and the Incindiary XFX means the M/Cs are also useful against shields if required.

 

[jnTracks]

Your long range pulse lasers, are they fixed or gimballed?

Gimballed.
I know supposedly the jitter is such that they may miss quite a bit at long range, but I really haven't found that to be the case. (or at least not a real issue.
This isn't my primary combat ship, it's a mission runner; but It can hold it's own in combat and I like to sit in RES sites blasting ships with my limpet swarm collecting. Often shooting at far targets that way since I'm firing at the next target from proximity to the last one that popped.

 

[zipline]

Obviously, the Phantom's got one less C3 hardpoint but if I was building a fighty Phantom, I'd probably go with a pair of C3 beams and a pair of C2 M/Cs.
The Corrosive XFX makes a helluva difference to the ability to do hull damage and the Incindiary XFX means the M/Cs are also useful against shields if required.

Thanks cmdr, another option for me to chew on. I am leaning towards getting a few MCs (1 large and 2 small) with just G1 engineering and focusing on the special effects, as the mats needed are minimal and a known quantity. Then I can try out some of the combos you cmdrs are suggesting then engineer up to G5 on the option that works for me.

 

[Viajero]

Gimballed.
I know supposedly the jitter is such that they may miss quite a bit at long range, but I really haven't found that to be the case. (or at least not a real issue.
This isn't my primary combat ship, it's a mission runner; but It can hold it's own in combat and I like to sit in RES sites blasting ships with my limpet swarm collecting. Often shooting at far targets that way since I'm firing at the next target from proximity to the last one that popped.

Thanks, btw, the long range mod does it also affect the base range for damage fall off before modification increase (100%)? Or is it always fixed at 100% (ie 2 km) irrespective of modification grade (1-5)?

I am trying to understand if there is any interest in grades 2-5 with regards to damage fall off range.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

PAs are great fun, but you really have to have good aim with them. Frags are great but lots of shrapnel that can cause some collateral damage in a CZ.

PAs are one of the easier fixed weapons imo.
Frags have such short range (and low proj speed) that I've never had that issue.
Lasers on the other hand are hitscan and can easily hit someone behind a target.

The main advantage of those weapons is time to kill is low; due to PAs bypassing some resistance and the very high DPS of the frags.
Frags contrary to popular belief, also have good damage per battery, for CZs etc.
So you kill fast and can kill many, before needing a reload

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Thanks, btw, the long range mod does it also affect the base range for damage fall off before modification increase (100%)? Or is it always fixed at 100% (ie 2 km) irrespective of modification grade (1-5)?

I am trying to understand if there is any interest in grades 2-5 with regards to damage fall off range.

It's always 100% and range increases with each mod.

 

[NCFCpaul]

I am not good at combat and also didn't really get started on it for a long time. I find that the Fer de Lance is excellent, especially when engineered. I can't find the link but recently there was a 'ryans guide' and copying they worked incredibly.

In practice no matter how good the FDL is I enjoy playing with my Federal Gunship with thermal vent beams and four rail guns.

My point is no matter what anyone else says, or even what is actually the best, your own play style may lead you to something different. When unlocking and credits allow I would always suggest trying as many different options as you can. You never quite know what would be best for you, have fun with it!

Never fly without rebuy and fly what makes you smile

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Thanks cmdr, another option for me to chew on. I am leaning towards getting a few MCs (1 large and 2 small) with just G1 engineering and focusing on the special effects, as the mats needed are minimal and a known quantity. Then I can try out some of the combos you cmdrs are suggesting then engineer up to G5 on the option that works for me.

Small/med MCs take a damage penalty vs large.
Large MCs have a really long spin up time.
It's longer than the reload time for frags so it's something to consider.
DPS and damage per battery is higher for frags, w/ no spin up time.

Wrt engineering, you'd be seriously hamstringing yourself doing it that way.
Eg a single G5 OC gimballed frag cannon, DPS = 366.

Quantities are easy to calculate.
But mats can be pretty tedious to obtain.
I suggest doing the meta engineering and wait til you're more experienced to experiment.

I know you're getting a lot of information, so I suggest to try to use the objective bits to steer you.

Does it do more damage?
How much?
What about reloads/spin up?
That sort of thing.

Eg OC > HICap, since you want to kill faster, not over a longer duration.
(Exception being perhaps small util weapon w/corrosive due to ammo cap hit)

That said, you do want corrosive which can also be put on frags.
Drag and screening shell are also useful.

 

[Cmdr Nemo]

For an easy to handle starter kit, I'd use two large lasers, either efficient beams or focused pulse and a pair of multicannons, high capacity with corrosive experimental. The corrosive effect of the MCs will make it easier for the lasers to damage hull, too.

Laser's in the big slots or small?

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Laser's in the big slots or small?

Default is in the smaller slots.
If you flip that you should have a good reason.

Krait's PD can push 2 medium long range gimballed beams easily.

 

[DDastardly00]

I am not good at combat and also didn't really get started on it for a long time. I find that the Fer de Lance is excellent, especially when engineered. I can't find the link but recently there was a 'ryans guide' and copying they worked incredibly.

In practice no matter how good the FDL is I enjoy playing with my Federal Gunship with thermal vent beams and four rail guns.

My point is no matter what anyone else says, or even what is actually the best, your own play style may lead you to something different. When unlocking and credits allow I would always suggest trying as many different options as you can. You never quite know what would be best for you, have fun with it!

Never fly without rebut and fly what makes you smile

I took out my FDL this weekend, dusted it off only to discover massive heat problems, what update broke this ship? It occurs when firing my huge Pulse and Medium burst lasers. My temperature skyrockets upward as soon as I begin firing, to the point where I start cooking my modules. I never had this problem before. I also have twin Plasma Accelerators located in each side hardpoint, but I don't believe they are the cause of the issue. I took a break from Elite from Oct 2017 to Jan 2019 so I'm, not sure when they 'buffed' the FDL, but now I need to rework my build.

To OP question about running Beams with MC's, that works very effectively to help finish of NPCs I highly recommend trying it. I don't have a Phantom but on my Krait mk II (when it's outfitted for NPC ships), my hardpoints are Large Beam, engineered to grade 5 efficient with Thermal Vent experimental effect, two large Multi cannons also grade 5 efficient and my front Medium hardpoints rotate from pulse lasers to more Multi cannons all engineered. That has worked very well for me at compromised nav beacons

I haven't tested the build elsewhere yet because 99% of the time I am running a Thargoid hunter build with large AX cannons it the place of the multis and Gauss cannons in the medium front hard points, the beam always stays in all the builds. The thermal vent experimental effect alone is worth keeping the Beam, very useful.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

I took out my FDL this weekend, dusted it off only to discover massive heat problems, what update broke this ship? It occurs when firing my huge Pulse and Medium burst lasers. My temperature skyrockets upward as soon as I begin firing, to the point where I start cooking my modules. I never had this problem before. I also have twin Plasma Accelerators located in each side hardpoint, but I don't believe they are the cause of the issue. I took a break from Elite from Oct 2017 to Jan 2019 so I'm, not sure when they 'buffed' the FDL, but now I need to rework my build.

To OP question about running Beams with MC's, that works very effectively to help finish of NPCs I highly recommend trying it. I don't have a Phantom but on my Krait mk II (when it's outfitted for NPC ships), my hardpoints are Large Beam, engineered to grade 5 efficient with Thermal Vent experimental effect, two large Multi cannons also grade 5 efficient and my front Medium hardpoints rotate from pulse lasers to more Multi cannons all engineered. That has worked very well for me at compromised nav beacons

I haven't tested the build elsewhere yet because 99% of the time I am running a Thargoid hunter build with large AX cannons it the place of the multis and Gauss cannons in the medium front hard points, the beam always stays in all the builds. The thermal vent experimental effect alone is worth keeping the Beam, very useful.

My guess is an OC powerplant is causing your heat problems, but without seeing a build...

 

[Northpin]

Thanks, btw, the long range mod does it also affect the base range for damage fall off before modification increase (100%)? Or is it always fixed at 100% (ie 2 km) irrespective of modification grade (1-5)?

I am trying to understand if there is any interest in grades 2-5 with regards to damage fall off range.

Long range practically removes the falloff (it makes it identical with max range) and also improves the shot speed.
LR1 gives 4.8km falloff/maxrange and 1900m/s and from there things are goin only up - to 8 km range and 3200m/s at LR5