Oh I beg to differ. I created a new account and was Elite in 24 hours. If I could do that I could mentor someone else who tagged along with me and did what I did and could get them to Elite at the same time. Now if they've had no idea what was going on in the game and they just goofed around for a week or two that's different.
It has occured to me that Engineered Modules should be FOR SALE!
- Thread starter Werewolf13
- Start date
I agree completely! But where did the idea of player transactions involving real CASH come from? In my original post I did use the term cash and credits. If someone understood cash to mean offline transactions in real life then my bad. I certainly didn't mean to suggest or imply that. I hate that. REALLY, really hate that that happens in so many games.
And you are a very, very experienced and good player. Not everyone else is as good as you, some are better - some are not and some like me are way NOT.
I've been playing ED since the 1st day after it was released. I'm only elite in trader, getting there in explorer and rated a crappy dangerous in combat. 4 freakin' years and that's it and I used to play 20 to 25 hours a week - still play 7 or 8 on the weekends. I ain't ever gonna crack dangerous in combat. EVER.
We're not all as good as you Schmack and it's silly to believe so. You could mentor me from here to high water and I wouldn't get any better. Reflexes are shot - I'm 67 years old. Brain still fine - which is why I'm pretty good at trading and OKAY at exploring (that's a patience issue) and I absolutely DESPISE mining. HATE IT! If I ever met the guy that came up with that mining and I met him in a bar I'd invite him outside to the parking lot to discuss the issue in a non-verbal manner (well - not really - wouldn't accomplish anything so what would be the point). But you get the idea - MINING SUX!
AND - I get the feeling that ED is 2/3 the way thru it's product life. If you've ever seen a product life curve (kind'a looks like an upside down bathtub) being 2/3 thru that curve is definitely not a good thing.
FD has a lock on everything ED - everything - and it's gonna result in another year or two of real life left in it.
Think about EVE - that suckker's been around since Noah was a Seaman and you know why? Because Eve content is essentially created by the players - the devs just expand on it. FD would be well advised to copy that attitude or ED will die - soone than later I'm afraid.
The part of you never going to Combat Elite, or maybe not Explorer Elite, that comes down to how you approach things.
Take combat, there are some stuff that you need to know about how this works.
You get more points towards elite for killing higher ranked targets. But killing targets that are to many ranks below your rank, gives nothing on your progress.
So this means that you could be spending weeks killing ships, with no real progress... because they are all to low rank. Now this is not something that the game tells you, so it is easy to do the wrong kind of combat.
Then we have the NPC Pilots, if you have one of these onboard, they steal your progress points, and I can tell you based on my own experience from having my Elite Combat NPC Pilot die, to my own stupdiity, have HUGE effect on how much combat rank I gained... So I have not tested if it is enough to leave them at the station or you have to get rid of them or not.
So these are some basic information on how to gain combat rank.
My own experience is that most of the combat against NPC's is not about reflexes or split second decisions. For killing NPCs, it is about playing is smart, realising stuff like that 50% throttle is basically the only throttle settings you need in a dog fight situation.
Then we have engineering, that basically allow you to brute force your way past skill against NPC's. Basically, many NPC's will stay nose-to-nose with you and trying to brawl fight you, and if you have the bigger shields, better engineered weapons and lots of pips into shield, you will win these stand-offs easily in your engineered ship, against similar sized ship.
So what I am trying to say, is that there are LOTS of information out there, and just having someone coaching you about them, playing with you and pointing out areas where you can improve, and even show you what the difference is has, can have a huge impact on your gameplay and how you progress.
I do get where you are now, as I can recognize the feeling, as I have been there too. I have also been playing for about 4 years (exactly 4 year next week actually) and felt like I got stuck at my combat rank, etc. I was a terrible at combat, died left, right and center. So I had to learn a few things, and quickly discovered that engineering the crap out of my combat ships more than made up for my bad combat skills. Do not get turned down, as even some moderate G2/G3 upgrades with experimental effects have a HUGE impact when it comes to compensate your lack of skill against NPC's. So I was the 3rd in our group to start playing, and once I figured out a few things, I caught up with my friends and keep discovering new stuff to tell my friends about. Just being curious and seek information can have a huge impact on your game play.
Stay curious CMDR! and fly reckless.
When one doesn't take the time to strip their engineered mod prior to selling it back, it becomes property of the NPC's. Subsequently, more and more NPC's are getting free engineered mods.Engineered modules should be for sale in the station outfitting area or at a new type of market. Here are my thoughts on why:
I don't know about the rest of you but I sometimes sell or exchange (though mostly store) my engineered modules. Lets not get into the why of that - suffice it to say I do sell them.
So now the station shipyard I sell the engineered module to has an engineered module just layin' around on a shelf somewhere. What does it do with it? The obvious and most business savy thing to do is move the inventory and you do that by putting it up for sale in the outfitting screens. That way it doesn't sit on a shelf somewhere forever waiting for the right ship configuration to come along on an insurance rebuy that uses just that specific module engineered the way it was before. And they could mark the price up (way up! HEY! I'd paid CR 116M for an 8A power supply once) depending on the upgrade and the module.
Why that might even be a source of a new type of transport mission. Carry a load of engineered modules to the nearest engineered module market. Pirates would definitely be on your butt from the get go at both ends of your trip. Or you could decide you could make more money selling 'em on the black market, find a rogue engineer to install 'em for you (hey - new type of engineer!). Of course not completing the mission because you absconded with the goods would come with being wanted and a very hefty fine now making you a target of more than just pirates. Yay!
Oh! And some of those modules are pretty big and unless there's a rogue engineer on site to install it for you or you have the cargo space to load it you're up scheise creek without a paddle. What to do? Whaaat to do. Why, store where ya bought it of course. Go to your local rogue engineer's base and pay to have it transferred there for installation. Or you could just go pick up what ever transport ship with the tonnage capacity to carry the new modules you bought (choice of last resort though - think about it - you'll figure out why)
Which leads me to wonder just where in the h.ell do the shipyards get the engineered modules to use on that rebuy you just did (does Merlin have a continuing contract to create them out of thin air)? Huh? Where? Maybe from pilots like me who sell 'em? Ya think?
FDEV created the material markets. Shouldn't be all that tough to add an engineered module market to that. ONE that takes CASH or trade, of course.
Which begs the question: Why can't we move materials to the engineers that use them and sell the things to 'em. What's wrong with those prima donnas? Do they find it distastefull to participate in the galactic economy or something? Are they closet socialist utopians who eschew the very concept of money?
That way those of us who hate the damned grind to collect materials and then fly half way across the bubble to see the right engineer and a lot of the time have to evade the gankers hanging about because they know people are coming can avoid all that and just go to the nearest engineered module market (which may or may not have what you're looking for).
And those that do enjoy the current grind - why they can keep on keepin' on doin' it.
That's called CHOICE and choice IS always GOOD! 'Cuz then we get to play ED the way we want to!
Thoughts? Comments? Flames? It's all good.
You don't have to suggest it be sanctioned by FD to sell them with cash. If you can transfer them in the game to other players, they will become gold farming items.
Is that true? Or are you just messin' with our heads?
You don't have to be good if I winged up with you and you just did what I did. That's why I said "mentored". If I winged with a new player and did Opal farming, they'd get pretty rich pretty quick. Then they could upgrade to big opal farming ship and grind out 1 billion in just a few trips. It could be done. When Smeaton was a thing, I could have a new player wing up and go from sidey to elite trader just by getting them to a ship they could haul passengers in. A couple runs at 50m each and they are in a large ship with more space, more money. Now they're making 250m a run. How many of those do you need to get elite?
So though it's not easy, it definitely can be done. That's my point.
Last edited:
I killed a few today that had guardian weapons and a bobblehead.
Also note that when chasing assassinations or pirates, especially large ships, you can ram the crap out of them a few times to drop their shields (if they are wanted) and they won't fire on you until you engage (unless you have cargo). This has been my experience, so I try to knock their shields down and take some hull with my beefed up cutter with all hull tanking and half a dozen shield boosters. Then you can finish that one off pretty quick and focus on the escorts.
I have to try this!
Too bad the missions pay all. Done a simple assassination mission - Jump there, scan beacon, meet with contact in another system, go to another system, scan beacon, find target, kill, go collect. a good 30 mins for a 1.4m payout. Elite mission. Ok, I wasn't allied with the faction, just friendly, still. Pays maybe 2.5 on Allied.
I make that much mining Vopals in uhm... less than a minute!
I've also got a Holo-Graphic Hooker that occupies the second seat, picked her up from a friend of the guy who gives out the Conda's at Hutton. She has a sister that is single; Interested?
Very LONG post follows: some rambling, some venting, some roleplay and some stuff that a few might even find interesting. If none of that appeals, please save yourself some time and just move on.
Hmmm...
Little story for ya - 'cuz I just can't agree with the above because my experience is different.
Just a couple of days ago I accepted an Elite rated assasination mission against a Pirate Lord (not a wing mission - not - a wing mission). Figured he'd be flyin' a 'Conda. Yeah. Riiiight. Sucker was in a corvette and escorted by a Viper. The pirate lord was rated elite (which I expected); the Viper as dangerous (which was unexpected but a pleasant surprise). I was rated dangerous and flying my hull tank 'conda.
As soon as I popped out of witchspace the guy said somthing like "I've been waiting for you" and immediately started shooting. I barely had a chance to KWS him. He rammed me, repeatedly, which was kind'a stupid (or so I thought at the time) because my 'conda has 5200 or so hull integrity and only 900 MJ of shields. And that 'vette seemed like it could turn on a dime. The fight devolved into a jousting match with my turrets shooting the Viper and my fixed fire G4 huge Burst Laser with inertial impact and 3 large efficient G4 beams shooting at the Corvette. Ended up throwing my 'conda into reverse and bringing every single weapon to bare on him. I took him out, just barely. When he finally blew up I had 17% integrity left. I earned a $2.3M bounty (thanks KWS) and got $7M from the mission giver.
Cost me a quarter mil in repairs.
Point being - enemy ships do ram, and even when I'm in my Python, Krait Phantom or Asp and that asp is really maneuverable and the Krait is almost as maneuverable as the Asp - some how the fight always turns into a joust no matter how hard I maneuver to stay on their tails; no matter how much I use vertical and horizontal thrust so my ship is moving in 3 dimensions at the same time and not just 1 or 2. The NPC's since the last patch/update have gotten better at flying based on their rating and better at shooting. I don't have any quantifiable evidence to prove that but it is my perception, I believe it. And unlike it used to be it ain't fun anymore - it is work - interesting work but still work.
Oh, and my combat rating progress as a result of that fight went from 28% to 30%. Wow! I feel so rewarded. Yes! Ohhhhhh yessss! (that was sarcasm for those that are sarcasticly challenged by the way).
I am aware that a lack of flying skill can be offset by building really tough, appropriately armed and maneuverable ships. And to build thoseships it takes bukus of materials and materials take lots of time (for me) to acquire (lots of time) with the foundation of that acquisition being mining. And those that paid attention know that I hate mining. It is pure unadulterated mind numbing boredom. I have to be pressed and pressed hard to do it. And material trading as an alternative to mining is a JOKE! To material trade you need materials and how do you get them? You mine, of course. To get the high leve mats you really need for the g4 and g5 mods you have to have mined a whole lot of low rated materials (a really big time sink) to trade for the high rated mats which is exorbitanly expensive because it can take 6, 9, 20 or even 27 of a lower rated material to get even the rare material you need. Talk about a boondoggle racket. REALLY? REALLY! NOTE: As a hard core capitalist I find it rather difficult to fault the material brokers for setting the prices they set - what ever the market will bare. But as a consumer those NPC's are darn lucky 'cuz if I could I'd post some missions on the mission board offering some evil player a large, large paying mission to kidnap their families and the price to get 'em back would make the prices they charge look like chicken feed in comparison.
And don't even get me started on what you have to do to get access to the engineers - one of 'em wants a $100K or $1M worth of combat bonds as an entry fee to even get g1 access. I don't last 5 minutes in a CZ - even a low one. So that engineer is for all practical purposes out of my reach. Could I eventually get the mats I need. Yeah, probably, maybe, or maybe not. But it'd take weeks and/or months of mind numbing grind if I did.
And why? Because for some reason FD considers GRIND - GAMEPLAY! Seriously?
And that's all I can imagine as the why FD will not, and have not implemented game mechanics that would allow those who don't care for the grind other options that would allow us to enjoy the game too. Like I used to; really enjoy the game. But the GRIND is getting old and repetitive and boring and when the paid update finally gets here guess who will be sticking with Horizons and not giving FD another red cent. Go ahead. Guess. H.ell - I've even considered switching back to pre-horizons and playing without mining and engineers (I won't though, cheap SOB and I paid for Horizons and not using it would be like throwing money away).
So why does FD force me/us to have to do the mind numbing grind when a different mechanic would keep me as a paying customer who would buy the next paid upgrade if they did. Why is FD invested in not giving players a choice of how they play the game? Why doesn't FD make the suggested content (see OP) available that would attract new customers and keep existing ones. Or if not what I suggested then something else that would relieve the boring grind. Anything, anything at all!
The only answer I can come up with is they want to drive customers away. ED is not a subscription service. It costs them money, probably a lot to keep the servers up and running. Less customers, less bandwidth to pay for. They keep more of the revenue they collect from selling LOL - paint jobs. I work for a company that is in that exact mode right now - a big one - too many customers - costs too much to support 'em all - drive off the ones that don't generate enough money and be done with 'em. It's done, believe it's done. And when we reach our end goal we'll be keeping more of what we make and doing less work.
Elite Dangerous has so much potential but it isn't being realized in my opinion and from being a regular reader of this forum I'm not the only one that believes that.
I truly do like ED but it is starting to wear me out. What's sad about that is that it really doesn't have to.
Emphasis mine...
Hmmm...
Little story for ya - 'cuz I just can't agree with the above because my experience is different.
Just a couple of days ago I accepted an Elite rated assasination mission against a Pirate Lord (not a wing mission - not - a wing mission). Figured he'd be flyin' a 'Conda. Yeah. Riiiight. Sucker was in a corvette and escorted by a Viper. The pirate lord was rated elite (which I expected); the Viper as dangerous (which was unexpected but a pleasant surprise). I was rated dangerous and flying my hull tank 'conda.
As soon as I popped out of witchspace the guy said somthing like "I've been waiting for you" and immediately started shooting. I barely had a chance to KWS him. He rammed me, repeatedly, which was kind'a stupid (or so I thought at the time) because my 'conda has 5200 or so hull integrity and only 900 MJ of shields. And that 'vette seemed like it could turn on a dime. The fight devolved into a jousting match with my turrets shooting the Viper and my fixed fire G4 huge Burst Laser with inertial impact and 3 large efficient G4 beams shooting at the Corvette. Ended up throwing my 'conda into reverse and bringing every single weapon to bare on him. I took him out, just barely. When he finally blew up I had 17% integrity left. I earned a $2.3M bounty (thanks KWS) and got $7M from the mission giver.
Cost me a quarter mil in repairs.
Point being - enemy ships do ram, and even when I'm in my Python, Krait Phantom or Asp and that asp is really maneuverable and the Krait is almost as maneuverable as the Asp - some how the fight always turns into a joust no matter how hard I maneuver to stay on their tails; no matter how much I use vertical and horizontal thrust so my ship is moving in 3 dimensions at the same time and not just 1 or 2. The NPC's since the last patch/update have gotten better at flying based on their rating and better at shooting. I don't have any quantifiable evidence to prove that but it is my perception, I believe it. And unlike it used to be it ain't fun anymore - it is work - interesting work but still work.
Oh, and my combat rating progress as a result of that fight went from 28% to 30%. Wow! I feel so rewarded. Yes! Ohhhhhh yessss! (that was sarcasm for those that are sarcasticly challenged by the way).
I am aware that a lack of flying skill can be offset by building really tough, appropriately armed and maneuverable ships. And to build thoseships it takes bukus of materials and materials take lots of time (for me) to acquire (lots of time) with the foundation of that acquisition being mining. And those that paid attention know that I hate mining. It is pure unadulterated mind numbing boredom. I have to be pressed and pressed hard to do it. And material trading as an alternative to mining is a JOKE! To material trade you need materials and how do you get them? You mine, of course. To get the high leve mats you really need for the g4 and g5 mods you have to have mined a whole lot of low rated materials (a really big time sink) to trade for the high rated mats which is exorbitanly expensive because it can take 6, 9, 20 or even 27 of a lower rated material to get even the rare material you need. Talk about a boondoggle racket. REALLY? REALLY! NOTE: As a hard core capitalist I find it rather difficult to fault the material brokers for setting the prices they set - what ever the market will bare. But as a consumer those NPC's are darn lucky 'cuz if I could I'd post some missions on the mission board offering some evil player a large, large paying mission to kidnap their families and the price to get 'em back would make the prices they charge look like chicken feed in comparison.
And don't even get me started on what you have to do to get access to the engineers - one of 'em wants a $100K or $1M worth of combat bonds as an entry fee to even get g1 access. I don't last 5 minutes in a CZ - even a low one. So that engineer is for all practical purposes out of my reach. Could I eventually get the mats I need. Yeah, probably, maybe, or maybe not. But it'd take weeks and/or months of mind numbing grind if I did.
And why? Because for some reason FD considers GRIND - GAMEPLAY! Seriously?
And that's all I can imagine as the why FD will not, and have not implemented game mechanics that would allow those who don't care for the grind other options that would allow us to enjoy the game too. Like I used to; really enjoy the game. But the GRIND is getting old and repetitive and boring and when the paid update finally gets here guess who will be sticking with Horizons and not giving FD another red cent. Go ahead. Guess. H.ell - I've even considered switching back to pre-horizons and playing without mining and engineers (I won't though, cheap SOB and I paid for Horizons and not using it would be like throwing money away).
So why does FD force me/us to have to do the mind numbing grind when a different mechanic would keep me as a paying customer who would buy the next paid upgrade if they did. Why is FD invested in not giving players a choice of how they play the game? Why doesn't FD make the suggested content (see OP) available that would attract new customers and keep existing ones. Or if not what I suggested then something else that would relieve the boring grind. Anything, anything at all!
The only answer I can come up with is they want to drive customers away. ED is not a subscription service. It costs them money, probably a lot to keep the servers up and running. Less customers, less bandwidth to pay for. They keep more of the revenue they collect from selling LOL - paint jobs. I work for a company that is in that exact mode right now - a big one - too many customers - costs too much to support 'em all - drive off the ones that don't generate enough money and be done with 'em. It's done, believe it's done. And when we reach our end goal we'll be keeping more of what we make and doing less work.
Elite Dangerous has so much potential but it isn't being realized in my opinion and from being a regular reader of this forum I'm not the only one that believes that.
I truly do like ED but it is starting to wear me out. What's sad about that is that it really doesn't have to.
Last edited:
I would ditch the beam lasers and go with overcharged multicannons to save your PD and keep more energy on your large pulse lasers. Also try FA/OFF and boost. I like to keep the big ship moving pretty slow but able to whip around pretty fast if you time the spin and boost properly. I agree the assassinations are tricky, haven't had them ram me but sometimes they'll start shooting at you right away. Pirates though, especially in res sites, they will ignore you if you don't have cargo, and you can pick the big boys and put the schmack down on them before they know what happened. Good for filling your quota and at the same time gathering G4 and G5 mats.
That's the sadest truth in all of it.
Or the log fest at one of the CGs - find persistent CG objective - drop in, collect escape pods - log out - repeat. Drop off 500 when full, repeat as needed.
Or last year, the guardian modules - there was only ONE site that dropped the module blueprint. So you couldn't even RP and go to a different site, as that would drop the weapon blueprint. So you kill the sentinels, raise pylons, scan orb - log off - log in - repeat. RP this!
Yes, they nerfed that grind down, but those who grind out 8 blueprints per module to a total of 24 know exactly what I'm talking about. Same with the obelisk scans - scan all obelisks, log out, log in, repeat until data storage is full.
I keep saying the same thing - cut down the grind, allow player to have shortcuts who have done it a few times already. Not giving them the option is just driving them away to other games with less grind. And a player who doesn't play Elite, won't buy paint jobs.
As Misty mentioned earlier, this is a game with a lot of knowledge required for optimal play, and no easy way to learn half of it in-game. Take your example here of getting raw mats. It sounds like you're collecting them by driving around on the surface and popping random rocks, and then trading up at the (extortionate) material trader rates. But that's just the most obvious and grindiest way to go about it. Instead you could, depending on your preferences: hunt bio and geo sites (either on your own with the FSS, or using online tools) for guaranteed G4 raw materials; do collection runs at Bug Hunter and similar for rapid collection of G2/3 mats to trade; trade travel time for profit by flying out to a crystal life site for loads of G4 materials; or learn best practices for farming the rocks for traditional SRV rock popping. Plenty of info about any of those online, but the only way to learn any of that in-game would be tons of trial and error and exploration.
The huge disparity between people just flying around doing their own thing, vs people who follow guides or otherwise use researched approaches, is exactly why you get threads like this where you have people simultaneously complaining that the game is too easy and too hard. Do your own thing, and it'll take months to earn your way into an Anaconda - but you'll probably have some idea of what you're doing with it. But there's loads of Youtube guides that advertise going from noob to Conda in 24 or 12 or 8 hours, and they do work if you're willing to grind out one activity for those 8 hours. (And then you get noobs in unengineered Anacondas aka griefer-bait of the highest order, and all the salt that goes with that.) The same is true to varying degrees of gathering engineering materials, building superpower ranks, and most everything else. I'm hard pressed to say there's any right answer here (except noobacondas, don't be a noobaconda pilot) - if doing things slowly your own way is fun, do that. But if the slow progression stops being fun, then by all means tap in to the collective knowledge of the community to get over the humps.
I do get your frustration.
Lets see if we can give some tips, that might improve on stuff.
Combat and being out turned.
This is game of wits. and you have options available here.
- 50% thrusters. I use this, I have button bound to set 50%, this is when you ship turns the BEST, and you maintain this if you boost! since you are still at 50%
- FA off boost turns, FA on. I do not really use these, but some uses these with great success
So try these out, and figure out what you like, and they both have their own usages on where they excel.
If we go with the easy to start with, 50% thruster, this will make you manoeuvring thrusters work better, and if you end up with those nose-to-nose situations with plasma shooting captains, having a health dose of sideways thrusters going on, will in most cases make the plasma miss you, and give a great view of them flying past you.
Conflict Zones, easy way to survive these. Find the biggest friendly ship can, follow that one around, and let that ship do all the heavy lifting. Also keep an eye out for enemy ships that is about to go down, pew, pew a few times and you get credited if they get killed. Having along range laser makes this easier, as you can hit targets far away.
Avoid doing to much damage, because NPCs targets the ship doing the most damage.
If you find yourself in a swarm of enemy ships, bolt to the nearest group of friendlies, do NOT shoot at enemies. when close to your friends, they usual have turrets that shot at "anything" hostile, and soon they will take aggro and you are free to recharge shields etc.
Basically, play a coward that hide behind your friends. Well you are not being a coward, you are being smart. using the game mechanics to your advantage.... And as you get more comfortably you can get more aggressive! But you do not get to keep the war bonds if you get blown into pieces, and you want to spend doing combat getting "kills" than flying back and forth the station for repairs. So let the NPC's do the heavy lifting and just take credits for their work!
Also, there is a huge difference between pirates ships and combat ships in conflict zones, the latter now have HUGE amounts of hull reinforcement etc, making them really hard to kill. So by comparison, they have slower time to kill.
There are so much to learn about this game, and I do think that we get the most enjoyment if we can get to discover most of it for our selves, but there is so much to learn, so getting pointers, hints, general ideas can greatly improve on this. And in these cases, you still have to figure out how this works with your play style.
Play smarter, not harder! and keep the reckless flying going, but be smart about it.
^^^^
True but for me at least that feels like letting someone else play your game for you. And as you mentioned - having to do it at all is the failure of FD for not building into the game ways for a player to learn it. ED isn't a fantasy role playing game with puzzle rooms - it's a space game supposedly representing a high tech civilization in the far future. Knowledge would be much easier to acquire.
More great and well voiced points, truly cogent.
All I can say about that is so what if a new player gets his 'conda or 'vette or Clipper in a day using a guide (I'd not do it even if I could but...). SO f'n' what? The new player will pay the price, one way or another and it's no skin off of the players' back who did take months or even years to get that top of the line ship (like me) - none at all (though I imagine some will most assuredly disagree with me on that).