Why are Fdev so bad at community management?

So first of all yes the title is a little bit click baity - Sorry

I've got 1600 + hours in Elite and for the money I've spent (including all the ship skins at kits) I've never had better value for money from a game. I still play the game no one can have my stuff and I don't hate Fdev and the game isn't doomed!

Now that's out the way I recently started playing Warframe.

Warframe is a year older than Elite but the community approach feels like it's matured 100 years ahead of Fdev. Now this isn't a pop at the community team Will, Paige, Brett and psuedo member Sally do a great job but it just feels like the strategy is so wrong!

All the secrecy and lack of engagement is strange.

Digital Extremes (the devs that make Warframe) do 2 things 1 they involve the community in their streams and promote their communities creatives which I think Fdev have started doing more of recently and that's great.

But the second and most important thing they do is talk openly and honestly about the game which Fdev seem terrified of. This doesn't just mean give me more info now, they talk about things they're not happy with, like the archwing (a jet packy flying thing that is cool but adds very little to the game) the devs go on stream and laugh at how they just missed the mark and want to make it better.

If we look at something similar here (CQC and powerplay) Fdev talk about it like it's fine even when looking at ways of improving there's little acceptance they got something wrong. And the biggest surprise (to no one ever) is that when DE talk about things they got wrong the community accepts it and is happy they tried something new.

They talk about concepts for changes to the game and the community is positive. I remember when Fdev announced focus feedback and the community was the most engaged they've been, but then then mid way through they chickened out because there was some debate - why??

I get that the forums can get salty but back in 2015 / 16 I remember the same "where's the news Fdev?" threads all over the place. We've had 2 "important community update" threads and both feel like they were off the back of so much noise on the forums Fdev had to say something.

I honestly thought Fdev were right in their approach given the Star Citizen debacle but even now it seems NMS, SC, warframe, The Division and countless other games have over taken Elite on community engagement hell even looking at the new forums I see JWE has developer spotlights, Planet coaster has dropped news on a new update and yet for elite our latest dev posts are "welcome to the new forums"

So yeah I just don't get it, what gives Fdev why is Elite left out from community engagement?

TL;DR - Why do all other games (including Fdev's other games) get more community engagement than Elite?
 
And Fortnite won the best evolving game.......

Winning an award doesn't solve problems.

Also this community management team also covers JWE and planet coaster which I already mentioned seemed to be getting more
 
I think the OP makes some good points, particularly about the Important Community Updates. It seems clear there is information that can be imparted but is only done so after lots of pestering, which doesn't help to create a positive vibe.

I don't think accolades mean much to the individual community member compared to their own direct experience.

Nevertheless as the OP concedes the title only reflects their own confirmation bias. Work does go on with the game & bugs do get fixed, it's just done on the quiet. The AI seemed quite a bit easier to defeat for the past week or so, today they are back to normal but no patch notes afaik to confirm either of the changes so it's difficult to even clarify normal activity let alone find out anything about future development.
 
I think the OP makes some good points, particularly about the Important Community Updates. It seems clear there is information that can be imparted but is only done so after lots of pestering, which doesn't help to create a positive vibe.

I don't think accolades mean much to the individual community member compared to their own direct experience.

Nevertheless as the OP concedes the title only reflects their own confirmation bias. Work does go on with the game & bugs do get fixed, it's just done on the quiet. The AI seemed quite a bit easier to defeat for the past week or so, today they are back to normal but no patch notes afaik to confirm either of the changes so it's difficult to even clarify normal activity let alone find out anything about future development.

I definitely think work is happening and I'm totally not on the game is dead / maintenance mode train. I'm excited for 2020 and not too bothered that it will take that long.

For me it feels like Fdev are refusing to accept what the game is and at this point it's definitely in the "Live service" realms if this released as a "AAA Live Service" people would be up in arms at the lack of communication I just don't understand the strategy.
 
So first of all yes the title is a little bit click baity - Sorry

I've got 1600 + hours in Elite and for the money I've spent (including all the ship skins at kits) I've never had better value for money from a game. I still play the game no one can have my stuff and I don't hate Fdev and the game isn't doomed!

Now that's out the way I recently started playing Warframe.

Warframe is a year older than Elite but the community approach feels like it's matured 100 years ahead of Fdev. Now this isn't a pop at the community team Will, Paige, Brett and psuedo member Sally do a great job but it just feels like the strategy is so wrong!

All the secrecy and lack of engagement is strange.

Digital Extremes (the devs that make Warframe) do 2 things 1 they involve the community in their streams and promote their communities creatives which I think Fdev have started doing more of recently and that's great.

But the second and most important thing they do is talk openly and honestly about the game which Fdev seem terrified of. This doesn't just mean give me more info now, they talk about things they're not happy with, like the archwing (a jet packy flying thing that is cool but adds very little to the game) the devs go on stream and laugh at how they just missed the mark and want to make it better.

If we look at something similar here (CQC and powerplay) Fdev talk about it like it's fine even when looking at ways of improving there's little acceptance they got something wrong. And the biggest surprise (to no one ever) is that when DE talk about things they got wrong the community accepts it and is happy they tried something new.

They talk about concepts for changes to the game and the community is positive. I remember when Fdev announced focus feedback and the community was the most engaged they've been, but then then mid way through they chickened out because there was some debate - why??

I get that the forums can get salty but back in 2015 / 16 I remember the same "where's the news Fdev?" threads all over the place. We've had 2 "important community update" threads and both feel like they were off the back of so much noise on the forums Fdev had to say something.

I honestly thought Fdev were right in their approach given the Star Citizen debacle but even now it seems NMS, SC, warframe, The Division and countless other games have over taken Elite on community engagement hell even looking at the new forums I see JWE has developer spotlights, Planet coaster has dropped news on a new update and yet for elite our latest dev posts are "welcome to the new forums"

So yeah I just don't get it, what gives Fdev why is Elite left out from community engagement?

TL;DR - Why do all other games (including Fdev's other games) get more community engagement than Elite?

I couldn't agree more and I have always wondered why FDev were managing communication this way (I know they had their share of salt but unfortunately every game does). When you look at other companies (Digital Extremes is a perfect example) it's so frustrating to see how we get nothing here for an evolving game that deliver contents each years...

IMHO by doing this they are only losing their playerbase fidelity and interest in the game future. The livestreams only looks more and more artificlal like if they are trying to fill the total lack of communication with us...
 
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All one needs to do is go to the Staff/Dev posts link and filter by game, it's obvious that more time is being spent on engaging the Planet Coaster and JWE games than ED.
Which is true for the last week. Now take a look again when a major update is around the corner and you'll see hundreds of dev posts about Elite including lots of live streams, Q&As, etc. In other words, you are most likely wrong.
 
Which is true for the last week. Now take a look again when a major update is around the corner and you'll see hundreds of dev posts about Elite including lots of live streams, Q&As, etc. In other words, you are most likely wrong.

I think they get the bit between big announcement and release spot on you're very right there.

However, if you are saying that if I go back more than a week I get lots of engagement? I can't agree with that.

The last bit of engagement of note we got was the important update on 01/03... Well you could count them saying they are taking community goals out and will get more news early April but that just follows the 01/03 "no news please shut up" nonsense we got.

Again they have done streams and they are engaging with elements of the community (e.g. featured commanders and player groups) which is great but there is zero engagement regarding the future of the game or even honest conversations about things they might want to look at.

Look again at DE I know they want to revisit the early game I have no idea what they want to do or when but I know it's on the list am I mad? No I don't want the details am I intrigued? yes but I can wait because of the buckets of other things they're working on.

I often defend Fdev but at some point I would've thought they might learn.
 
When one is being squeeze by a constrictive snake one generally blames the snake. When it's not the snake per-se, it's the head that one should be blaming.

Totally agree and I tried to point I out I think the strategy is wrong not necessarily the team / people I think they have a good team just a horrendous strategy / approach
 
I've got well over 9300+ hrs on my ED timeclock, the game is great............pity I can't say the same for communication with the community.

Everything is soo secretive & nothing can be announced until it's been through the hype degree course & passed with honour's - that Frontier's hype, not mine.

Frankly that's what we're stuck with.....the chance to change was when Ed left Frontier..........but nothing has changed & it probably never will!
 
I think they get the bit between big announcement and release spot on you're very right there.

However, if you are saying that if I go back more than a week I get lots of engagement? I can't agree with that.

The last bit of engagement of note we got was the important update on 01/03... Well you could count them saying they are taking community goals out and will get more news early April but that just follows the 01/03 "no news please shut up" nonsense we got.

Again they have done streams and they are engaging with elements of the community (e.g. featured commanders and player groups) which is great but there is zero engagement regarding the future of the game or even honest conversations about things they might want to look at.

Look again at DE I know they want to revisit the early game I have no idea what they want to do or when but I know it's on the list am I mad? No I don't want the details am I intrigued? yes but I can wait because of the buckets of other things they're working on.

I often defend Fdev but at some point I would've thought they might learn.
Agreed, my post was a reply to someone who claimed that PC/JW get way more attention though and I am pretty sure this isn't the case.
 
I've got well over 9300+ hrs on my ED timeclock, the game is great............pity I can't say the same for communication with the community.

Everything is soo secretive & nothing can be announced until it's been through the hype degree course & passed with honour's - that Frontier's hype, not mine.

Frankly that's what we're stuck with.....the chance to change was when Ed left Frontier..........but nothing has changed & it probably never will!

I often wonder what their community team is doing all day, how many people are there? 5? If we are lucky one of them manages to create one post on the forums per day and it's usually something mostly irrelevant. Pretty sure they are busy with important work, just curious what it is because I certainly don't feel managed... ;)

I disagree with your point about the hype though, as it stands they are creating literally 0 hype. It's the absence of hype.
 
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