Why are Fdev so bad at community management?

[Lightspeed]

And yet when I took a peek at Jurassic World forum yesterday, out of curiosity, and came across this thread "Does this game have a future?" I thought I was reading an Elite Dangerous thread. Doom, poor FDev contact, lack of development, etc. etc.

So it's very much a FDev thing, unfortunately. It's their style, their policy, even though they promised "to engage with us more" a long time ago.

It's time to engage in a meaningful way and, please, no "reveals" to a select few who are then shackled by a NDA !

 

[Lordxenu]

And yet when I took a peek at Jurassic World forum yesterday, out of curiosity, and came across this thread "Does this game have a future?" I thought I was reading an Elite Dangerous thread. Doom, poor FDev contact, lack of development, etc. etc.

So it's very much a FDev thing, unfortunately. It's their style, their policy, even though they promised "to engage with us more" a long time ago.

It's time to engage in a meaningful way and, please, no "reveals" to a select few who are then shackled by a NDA !

Oh god yeah the super sekret showing to some people for.... reasons

Even Bioware are better at managing their community and Anthem is like a giant dumpster fire!

 

[gooddoc]

I often wonder what their community team is doing all day, how many people are there? 5? If we are lucky one of them manages to create one post on the forums per day and it's usually something mostly irrelevant. Pretty sure they are busy with important work, just curious what it is because I certainly don't feel managed...

I disagree with your point about the hype though, as it stands they are creating literally 0 hype. It's the absence of hype.

The hype is in the presenter's apparent over-excitement & using phrases to suggest that we are getting something that is really outstanding, when in reality it's just meh!

 

[VR jefranklin18]

The issue isn't the Community Management team, the issue is the utterly tiresome communications policy that Frontier have.

We may have been promised better engagement but if that is limited to more let's play session, then that falls very short, IMO. At least Jurassic World has developer spotlights, something that has never been done with ED (that I can recall).

 

[rootsrat]

So first of all yes the title is a little bit click baity - Sorry

I've got 1600 + hours in Elite and for the money I've spent (including all the ship skins at kits) I've never had better value for money from a game. I still play the game no one can have my stuff and I don't hate Fdev and the game isn't doomed!

Now that's out the way I recently started playing Warframe.

Warframe is a year older than Elite but the community approach feels like it's matured 100 years ahead of Fdev. Now this isn't a pop at the community team Will, Paige, Brett and psuedo member Sally do a great job but it just feels like the strategy is so wrong!

All the secrecy and lack of engagement is strange.

Digital Extremes (the devs that make Warframe) do 2 things 1 they involve the community in their streams and promote their communities creatives which I think Fdev have started doing more of recently and that's great.

But the second and most important thing they do is talk openly and honestly about the game which Fdev seem terrified of. This doesn't just mean give me more info now, they talk about things they're not happy with, like the archwing (a jet packy flying thing that is cool but adds very little to the game) the devs go on stream and laugh at how they just missed the mark and want to make it better.

If we look at something similar here (CQC and powerplay) Fdev talk about it like it's fine even when looking at ways of improving there's little acceptance they got something wrong. And the biggest surprise (to no one ever) is that when DE talk about things they got wrong the community accepts it and is happy they tried something new.

They talk about concepts for changes to the game and the community is positive. I remember when Fdev announced focus feedback and the community was the most engaged they've been, but then then mid way through they chickened out because there was some debate - why??

I get that the forums can get salty but back in 2015 / 16 I remember the same "where's the news Fdev?" threads all over the place. We've had 2 "important community update" threads and both feel like they were off the back of so much noise on the forums Fdev had to say something.

I honestly thought Fdev were right in their approach given the Star Citizen debacle but even now it seems NMS, SC, warframe, The Division and countless other games have over taken Elite on community engagement hell even looking at the new forums I see JWE has developer spotlights, Planet coaster has dropped news on a new update and yet for elite our latest dev posts are "welcome to the new forums"

So yeah I just don't get it, what gives Fdev why is Elite left out from community engagement?

TL;DR - Why do all other games (including Fdev's other games) get more community engagement than Elite?

A lot of valid points in there. I don't know what the reason for the tight-lips policy is. I presume one of them are the tantrums that this community can throw at the tiniest possible thing ("BUT YOU PROMIIIIIISED!!!!!"), but that's just one side of things. There must be more to it than that.

It's a vicious circle. When they keep quiet for so long, community gets annoyed. Then they announce something using a lot of vague sentences (or even the infamous announcement of an announcement) and everyone's all over it, nitpicking it and taking every single letter apart to the atom-level, because we're so hungry for some news. Any news.

Then speculations begin, FDEV does very little to cut them or clarify things and then the release comes and people's expectations are through the roof due to misunderstanding the CM's post and we get the tantrum.

I would also prefer for the communications to be A LOT more open. I honestly believe there a many more reasonable and level headed people in this community than the immature ones. Clear, open and honest communication would change things for sure. Instead what we can see is the most hardcore and dedicated fans getting angry and turning their backs on FDEV.

Nobody likes being kept in the dark.

 

[babelfisch]

The hype is in the presenter's apparent over-excitement & using phrases to suggest that we are getting something that is really outstanding, when in reality it's just meh!

So you would prefer if they announce that they are disappointed by their work and don't expect anyone to be happy about their next big expansion? I believe your expectations about marketing are unrealistic.

 

[Lordxenu]

A lot of valid points in there. I don't know what the reason for the tight-lips policy is. I presume one of them are the tantrums that this community can throw at the tiniest possible thing ("BUT YOU PROMIIIIIISED!!!!!"), but that's just one side of things. And it's a vicious circle. When they keep quite for so long, when community gets annoyed. Then they announce something and everyone's all over it, nitpicking it and taking every single letter apart to the atom-level, because we're so hungry for some new, any news.

Then speculations begin, FDEV does very little to cut them or clarify things and then the release comes and people's expectations are through the roof due to misunderstanding the CM's post and we get the tantrum.

I would also prefer for the communications to be A LOT more open. I honestly believe there a many more reasonable and level headed people in this community than the immature ones. Clear, open and honest communication would change things for sure. Instead what we can see is the most hardcore and dedicated fans getting angry and turning their backs on FDEV.

Nobody likes being kept in the dark.

What I found fascinating about the latest DE devstream was one of the devs outright said "I'm going to nerf that because I don't think it's fair" and the nerf was to a meta build for basically travelling really fast in the open worlds, it would be the same as Will saying "we're going to nerf the anaconda" but the reaction from the warframe community, whilst definitely not all positive, was quite reserved and mature as they discussed it.

But this was simply because DE talk to their community ALL THE TIME! when you release 1 snippet of info every 9 months people will pick it apart because there's nothing else to discuss.

agreed it's totally unreasonable for them to come out with "We've made spacelegs but they're meh at best"

But what they're currently saying is "there's a thing and it's totally awesome a secret thing but yeah awesome!"

I can still remember before one patch ed saying "you haven't even seen the best bit" I think it was the probes shutting down ships after scanning but to this day I'm not 100% I know there was something exciting I just have no idea what it was because it was too secret!

 

[Sir.Tj]

It would be nice for forum members to have more info coming out from the CM team but Frontier has always been tight lipped when it comes to announcments.

I can see both sides on this, the players would love to know what's in the pipeline so they can digest, delibrate and discuss and who can blame them.
Frontier however tend to not announce anything until it's almost set in stone and on past events when the pitchforks started to be waved and the flaming torches were lit I can understand their reluctance as well.

It's frustrating but with the earlier announcment that things are being developed it's a waiting game I'm afraid.

 

[metatheurgist]

It's definitely declined as the days have gone by. We used to get sneak peeks. Dev diaries. Semi regular devs on streams. What ever happened to Discovery Scanner? I don't think I've watched any stream since Ed left (and it's not because of Will, more that I could give a tribble's fart about what various PMFs are doing). FD was always bad at comms but now I don't feel like they're even trying.

 

[rootsrat]

It's definitely declined as the days have gone by. We used to get sneak peeks. Dev diaries. Semi regular devs on streams. What ever happened to Discovery Scanner? I don't think I've watched any stream since Ed left (and it's not because of Will, more that I could give a tribble's fart about what various PMFs are doing). FD was always bad at comms but now I don't feel like they're even trying.

Yeah, definitely miss the old days, especially Peek of the Week and Michael's dev diaries <3

 

[amigacooke]

So you would prefer if they announce that they are disappointed by their work and don't expect anyone to be happy about their next big expansion? I believe your expectations about marketing are unrealistic.

I think I'd prefer them to say what's coming and let individuls decide whether it's exciting, amazing etc.

 

[babelfisch]

On the hyping thing:
If they would release a picture with a silhouette of legs and the word 2020 next to it, it would be hype. If it turns out it's just boots as a CMDR customisation in the store it would be over hyped. Just saying they are excited about upcoming content that they can't talk about is neither, it's simply a lack of information that doesn't hype anyone. In fact there are more people who claimed that this announcent would be the death of Elite than there are people who are hyped by it...

 

[Lordxenu]

It would be nice for forum members to have more info coming out from the CM team but Frontier has always been tight lipped when it comes to announcments.

I can see both sides on this, the players would love to know what's in the pipeline so they can digest, delibrate and discuss and who can blame them.
Frontier however tend to not announce anything until it's almost set in stone and on past events when the pitchforks started to be waved and the flaming torches were lit I can understand their reluctance at as well.

It's frustrating but with the earlier announcement that things are being developed it's a waiting game I'm afraid.

I don't think it's even just about announcements I think it's their engagement with us and the game.

It all seems a bit false (again I go back to them not saying "actually guys we messed up CQC / powerplay") and like the Will catches up to DW2 stream - if they we're big fans of the game they would've kept up with it in their own time.

The only member of Fdev I get the impression (on social media etc) that enjoys the game is Sally.

Yes the devs don't need to be the best players ever but the CM team should absolutely give us a run for their money - this is something I didn't actually think until I saw how good some other CM's were at the game and how it made the community have confidence.

Now this doesn't mean they should be king of PVP but most of us specialise in something or at the very least have a detailed understanding of how the game works it feels like Will etc doesn't and it just feels false.

For me there's a lack of strategy, updates, engagement or passion for the game.

Ha feel like this has become some kind of venting therapy session for me!

 

[babelfisch]

I think I'd prefer them to say what's coming and let individuls decide whether it's exciting, amazing etc.

Me too, but I am not stupid enough to get hyped by it either. So as long as there is a lack of information I don't care if they find it exciting or amazing, I simply ignore it until I get some solid information. No hype involved.

 

[Lordxenu]

Yeah, definitely miss the old days, especially Peek of the Week and Michael's dev diaries <3

The dev diaries I remember when it was worth reading the newsletter!!!

 

[amigacooke]

I can see both sides on this, the players would love to know what's in the pipeline so they can digest, delibrate and discuss and who can blame them.
Frontier however tend to not announce anything until it's almost set in stone and on past events when the pitchforks started to be waved and the flaming torches were lit I can understand their reluctance as well.

To be honest, Frontier don't seem to care very much when pitchforks are waved, they very rarely defend/explain their own game.

By the way, it seems that we can have a discussion without mud being thrown.

 

[VR jefranklin18]

The dev diaries I remember when it was worth reading the newsletter!!!

They're only temporarily being paused while Horizons in the final few weeks in the run up to the launch of Horizons...

With current track record, I expect CGs to never reappear

 

[Lordxenu]

They're only temporarily being paused while Horizons in the final few weeks in the run up to the launch of Horizons...

With current track record, I expect CGs not to ever reappear

Of course with the temporary closing of player submitted galnet..........

And the new discovery scanner episode coming...... soon

Oh Fdev please get better!

 

[Lordxenu]

Brett will be along soon to speak yet say nothing at all.

Im going with I'll pass the concerns expressed on to the team.

Nothing will come of that as usual.

Unfortunately this is likely the case and we have seen this happen over and over with Fdev the only way they react is huge outcry (which I feel will take another month of so of whinging) or lower sales and really how do you link sales to CM activity?

 

[Lightspeed]

Just a thought ...... you don't think they think that this new forum layout is one of the Big Developments for this year?