The Star Citizen Thread V10

[Backer42]

If you can find a CIG direct quote suggesting that SQ42 specifically would have any kind of backer testing stage I am all ears.

That's the usual problem with all that retroactive rewriting of history in scams like these.

I'm pretty certain Chris Roberts promised during various interviews / YouTube shows / video game exhibitions etc. in 2012 and early 2013, that it's the exclusive privilege of (Kickstarter) backers beta-testing SQ42 missions early before public release. I'm also certain, that I saw Squadron 42 beta testing on some CitizonCon powerpoint slides. Obviously when 2014 arrived, SQ42 was completely MIA, because it was just the usual bait-and-switch.

It should be noted that this was long before the "selling two games" idea, which got CIG into heavy legal trouble. They were selling "Exclusive access to the Alpha + Beta" as Kickstarter tiers for this:

Real quick, Star Citizen is:

• A rich universe focused on epic space adventure, trading and dogfighting in first person.
• Single Player – Offline or Online(Drop in / Drop out co-op play)
• Persistent Universe (hosted by US)
• Mod-able multiplayer (hosted by YOU)
• No Subscriptions
• No Pay to Win

Of course, anybody pledging in the respective tiers expected early access to all of this, not just "Arena Commander" and other stopgap gimmicks made up later.

 

[Viajero]

That's the usual problem with all that retroactive rewriting of history in scams like these.

I'm pretty certain Chris Roberts promised during various interviews / YouTube shows / video game exhibitions etc. in 2012 and early 2013, that it's the exclusive privilege of (Kickstarter) backers beta-testing SQ42 missions early before public release. Obviously when 2014 arrived, SQ42 was completely MIA, because it was just the usual bait-and-switch.

It should be noted that this was long before the "selling two games" idea, which got CIG into heavy legal trouble. They were selling "Exclusive access to the Alpha + Beta" as Kickstarter tiers for this:


Of course, anybody pledging in the respective tiers expected early access to all of this, not just "Arena Commander" and other stopgap gimmicks made up later.

Are early SQ42 access or testing stated in the Kickstarter page at all?

 

[Backer42]

Are early SQ42 access or testing stated in the Kickstarter page at all?

Yes, Star Citizen Squadron 42 was a one single game on Kickstarter. There didn't exist a separate single-player game with a separate engine (and Crytek didn't authorize that, that's why they sue).

 

[Viajero]

Yes, Star Citizen Squadron 42 was a one single game on Kickstarter. There didn't exist a separate single-player game with a separate engine (and Crytek didn't authorize that, that's why they sue).

As far as I understand SQ42 was always a standalone single player campaign (with a co-op element, now gone) separate from the persistent universe, even if both were sold together. The Kickstarter actually does not make any explicit reference to early acess or testing of the SQ42 single player campaign. The only references to backer access of "alpha" or "beta" in the kickstarter page (that I have found so far) are very specific and related to the multiplayer / persistent universe element only:

12 months in, we will allow the early backers to play the multiplayer space combat Alpha, and then 20-22 months in they will get to play the Star Citizen Beta, adventuring around the huge open galaxy, well before the general public. We are going to limit our alpha slots to 200,000 as we want to stress test the game with real users, but will not be ready for the full load until we have finished Beta.

But if you can find anything specifically and explicitly referring to testing or early access of SQ42 (in the Kickstarter or anywhere else) I am still all ears.

 

[Backer42]

As far as I understand SQ42 was always a standalone single player campaign

Crytek doesn't agree. And I do not as well.

 

[Backer42]

The only references to backer access of "alpha" or "beta" in the kickstarter page (that I have found so far) are very specific and related to the multiplayer / persistent universe element only

Okay let's disect this:

The people who pledge for their spaceships will get to test-fly them long before the general public.

No mention of multiplayer or a persistent universe. Just spaceships and "test-flying".

12 months in, we will allow the early backers to play the multiplayer space combat Alpha,

So only multiplayer space combat testing 12 months in (in late 2013). Fits, nobody promised SQ42 early access for 2013.

and then 20-22 months in they will get to play the Star Citizen Beta,

What is this Star Citizen Beta?

Real quick, Star Citizen (Beta) is:

• A rich universe focused on epic space adventure, trading and dogfighting in first person.
• Single Player – Offline or Online(Drop in / Drop out co-op play)
• Persistent Universe (hosted by US)
• Mod-able multiplayer (hosted by YOU)
• No Subscriptions
• No Pay to Win

The definition of "Beta" is a feature-complete game. Before you start arguing, that "Beta" is just a few disconnected techdemos.

adventuring around the huge open galaxy, well before the general public.

"Adventuring the huge open galaxy", nothing that suggests limited multiplayer-only content. In NMS you can adventure a huge open galaxy without ever meeting another player.

We are going to limit our alpha slots to 200,000 as we want to stress test the game with real users, but will not be ready for the full load until we have finished Beta.

Still, nothing that supports your interpretation. No mention of a separate single player campaign, backers don't get access to.

 

[Viajero]

Crytek doesn't agree. And I do not as well.

Dont think the issue here is the nature of the relationship between the single player campaign and the multiplayer persistent universe. That is for the judge to decide. The only fact here so far is that we have not yet found any CIG explicit statement describing any kind of early access or testing for Squadron42. On the other hand all statements available so far describe alphas and betas as pertaining to the multiplayer PU element.

 

[Backer42]

The only fact here so far is that we have not yet found any CIG explicit statement describing any kind of early access or testing for Squadron42.

Okay, let's make this simple: Please prove, that this "Squadron 42" even existed in 2012 - as a separate game with separate conditions backers. Erin making up stuff two years later doesn't count.

On the other hand all statements available so far describe alphas and betas as pertaining to the multiplayer PU element.

Wrong, the 12 months Alpha was referencing the "multiplayer space combat". You quoted it yourself. "PU" is never mentioned anywhere in context of Alpha or Beta.

 

[Viajero]

Wrong, the 12 months Alpha was referencing the "multiplayer space combat". You quoted it yourself. "PU" is never mentioned anywhere in context of Alpha or Beta.

Let me quote the entirety of the paragraph again:

"12 months in, we will allow the early backers to play the multiplayer space combat Alpha, and then 20-22 months in they will get to play the Star Citizen Beta, adventuring around the huge open galaxy, well before the general public. We are going to limit our alpha slots to 200,000 as we want to stress test the game with real users, but will not be ready for the full load until we have finished Beta."

I think you would hopefully agree with me that "multiplayer space combat" alpha would be a very peculiar way to refer to something as clear cut recognizable as "Squadron 42", if that had been the case. It makes more sense that what we see here is simply the early reference to Arena Commander.

Now with regards to the PU, the reference to the Star Citizen Beta is made literally to the "huge open galaxy". Now which of the following pillars of the Kickstarer do you think the words "open" and "huge" and "stress test" relates to the most:

• A rich universe focused on epic space adventure, trading and dogfighting in first person.
• Single Player – Offline or Online(Drop in / Drop out co-op play)
• Persistent Universe (hosted by US)
• Mod-able multiplayer (hosted by YOU)
• No Subscriptions
• No Pay to Win

 

[kilvenny]

Update 15 Nov 7th 2012 from KS
"The big question: which part of the game are you most looking forward to... the intense single-player action of Squadron 42 or the vast and complex open world of Star Citizen? You can cast your vote in the form of a limited edition fighter skin which will be available in the finished game."

Note the emphasis on the "the game" which is also in the legal contract.. One game so all the pledges relating to alpha and beta refer to one game. The split came when they decided to market the 2 elements separately thus creating two games and no longer "the game". Since then alpha has referred to SC and my read was that SQ42 would be a release without an alpha or beta.

 

[Viajero]

Update 15 Nov 7th 2012 from KS
"The big question: which part of the game are you most looking forward to... the intense single-player action of Squadron 42 or the vast and complex open world of Star Citizen? You can cast your vote in the form of a limited edition fighter skin which will be available in the finished game."

Note the emphasis on the "the game" which is also in the legal contract.. One game so all the pledges relating to alpha and beta refer to one game. The split came when they decided to market the 2 elements separately thus creating two games and no longer "the game". Since then alpha has referred to SC and my read was that SQ42 would be a release without an alpha or beta.

Actually Erin explicit mention that SQ42 would be a final polished release with no testing is from Jan 2014, barely a year after Kickstarter, and around 2 years before the announcement of the split in 2016.

 

[kilvenny]

Actually Erin explicit mention that SQ42 would be a final polished release with no testing is from Jan 2014, barely a year after Kickstarter, and around 2 years before the announcement of the split in 2016.

Wouldn't argue with that, I didn't feel inclined to search for hours to find it, but it makes sense that it would be. The key thing is the KS didn't say that.and definitely refers to two elements SQ42 and SC making "the game"

 

[Backer42]

Note the emphasis on the "the game" which is also in the legal contract.. One game so all the pledges relating to alpha and beta refer to one game.

Exactly. One can't pretend, that the second game existed in 2012 already. It didn't. I specifically backed the Kickstarter to get early access to the single player campaign at least four months before release (after "20-22 months") to get a head start in the multiplayer universe ("Earn your citizenship").

And the material published around the fundraising (not just the archived KS description) suggested exactly that. It's also the reason, why I didn't go into a JPEG buying frenzy and kept my initial package. And yes, that also meant I got to participate in "multiplayer space combat" a year earlier, which was not a "persistent universe" or "MMO" and nobody promised that for 12 months after the KS. All this Second Life drink-mixing crap I never signed was appearing at least three years after the fact and that was exactly the point, where I dropped out and got my refund.

Stick to the words. Don't retroactively turn "huge open galaxy" into "MMO" and "single player mode" into "second polished game" or whatever fits Erin's narrative now, because from a 2012 perspective this is complete nonsense.

 

[Viajero]

I specifically backed the Kickstarter to get early access to the single player campaign at least four months before release (after "20-22 months") ... And the material published around the fundraising (not just the archived KS description) suggested exactly that.

Do you have a few good examples of that other material published around the fundraising suggesting the single player campaign had a player testing period? Genuinely interested.

 

[Backer42]

I'm still figuring out time traveling.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

This is not how I remember it as previous day one backer. I think I got promised some SQ42 beta testing originally scheduled for early/mid 2014 with the final release for November 2014.

I'm not certain about all the backer tiers, but i do know they promised to release SQ42 as a complete product, whether to early backers or not. They also spent many years being paranoid about revealing spoilers, only them to release a 1 hour walkthrough (which to be fair, didn't show much of anything except walking around and a bit of flight), and in the meantime, the whole plot was leaked, but then, they refactored all of the missions, so no idea if the plot remains the same, but wouldn't be surprising if it was.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

• A rich universe focused on epic space adventure, trading and dogfighting in first person.
• Single Player – Offline or Online(Drop in / Drop out co-op play)
• Persistent Universe (hosted by US)
• Mod-able multiplayer (hosted by YOU)
• No Subscriptions
• No Pay to Win

Oh my, that's funny.

Out of all those, only 1 of those (Persistent universe) is pretty much still certain. I mean, they don't have full persistence yet, but its getting there.

Rich universe etc, ok, they are trying to get that, but a long way to go, unless you count 1 system as a rich universe.

Single player with drop in drop out.... that's not been talked about in a long time.
Moddable - yeah, as if. Maybe, long after release.
No subscriptions... erm, i see subscriptions, and i don't see them stopping those.
No pay to win - Ah, so funny.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I'm still figuring out time traveling.

Cool, just don't sleep with your mum!

 

[Iron Golem]

Cool, just don't sleep with your mum!

Become your own father.

 

[ZeeWolf]

Something for Citizencon?