Why are Fdev so bad at community management?

[Lordxenu]

That's very different. Those are add-ons, not core content, and often developed by single individuals.

Has there ever been a large-scale event comparable in size and complexity to Dw2 or the Salome one entirely organized by Frontier?

Very true but to take Babelfisch's point Bethesda games are notorious for requiring mod support to fix bugs etc.

That said this is raised and talked about by the Bethesda communities and we've seen their goodwill fade away with Fallout 76.

So I suppose yes Elite is not unique but no this doesn't mean we should defend Fdev for not caring in anyway about their community.

I think between this thread and the "where you at Fdev?" thread there have been 300 posts in less than a day and all Fdev have bothered to do is add some sarcastic comment from Brett.

Really Fdev are making their own case for how terrible they are at community management here.

 

[amigacooke]

As I like to repeat: ED is the only game where the community does more (free) work for the game than the developer does.

Clearly, you're not familiar with Trainz.

 

[TheSynopticVision]

Very true but to take Babelfisch's point Bethesda games are notorious for requiring mod support to fix bugs etc.

That said this is raised and talked about by the Bethesda communities and we've seen their goodwill fade away with Fallout 76.

So I suppose yes Elite is not unique but no this doesn't mean we should defend Fdev for not caring in anyway about their community.

I think between this thread and the "where you at Fdev?" thread there have been 300 posts in less than a day and all Fdev have bothered to do is add some sarcastic comment from Brett.

Really Fdev are making their own case for how terrible they are at community management here.

Fair enough, but then I want to say: I wish Frontier would add mod support, so that what they can't/can't be bothered to fix can be fixed by the community.

Also, of potential relevance to the CMs who run the livestreams: this article.

 

[Lordxenu]

Fair enough, but then I want to say: I wish Frontier would add mod support, so that what they can't/can't be bothered to fix can be fixed by the community.

Also, of potential relevance to the CMs who run the livestreams: this article.

Ha! they do sometimes look like streaming for the community physically hurts them.

 

[TheSynopticVision]

Clearly, you're not familiar with Trainz.

Again, that's different. Separate kinds of game. Elite is NOT a game designed for content creation, like many others are.

It's rather the crazy committed community who takes the poor, poor "creative" tools at their disposal to make content, so desperate they are for some.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

"The community management of this game sucks" - 90% of game forums

 

[Lordxenu]

"The community management of this game sucks" - 90% of game forums

A very fair point!

However! 10% don't think it sucks so is it wrong for us to ask Fdev to learn from the 10% that get it right?

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Ha! they do sometimes look like streaming for the community physically hurts them.

Well, imagine having to CM for a group of ingrates, who will find any reason to criticise and drag you down (talking about CM in general, not just ED/FD). You have to have a special kind of character to put up with all the rubbish that gets thrown your way.

 

[amigacooke]

"The community management of this game sucks" - 90% of game forums

Then FDevs should be copying the 10% not the 90%.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

A very fair point!

However! 10% don't think it sucks so is it wrong for us to ask Fdev to learn from the 10% that get it right?

Nothing wrong with offering constructive criticism to the CM team and ways they might improve.

 

[amigacooke]

Well, imagine having to CM for a group of ingrates, who will find any reason to criticise and drag you down (talking about CM in general, not just ED/FD). You have to have a special kind of character to put up with all the rubbish that gets thrown your way.

There speaks the voice of experience.

 

[amigacooke]

Nothing wrong with offering constructive criticism to the CM team and ways they might improve.

Revealing details of future development, I'd guess, is not in the control of the CM team.

The fault lies with the policy, not the CM team themselves.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Then FDevs should be copying the 10% not the 90%.

My point is more that most games have decent CM teams, but there are always those who will never be satisfied. Seen it on so many forums where i've felt the CM was actually quite good.

Its also worth remembering that the CMs often have their hands tied. People might say the CM team should give more info, but if their management are saying no to that, then they can't do anything.

I see it a lot on the Fortnite sub. They have a really awesome CM active on the reddit called Magyst. He's fun, he's friendly, he's helpful, but you still see threads and posts from people saying "Epic has the worst CM team ever!"

 

[Lordxenu]

Nothing wrong with offering constructive criticism to the CM team and ways they might improve.

That was my plan for this thread but I will admit I've got caught up in the storm and thrown some unfair comments (like the live streaming one).

I don't expect anything will come from this thread or the other one but I would like the CM team to realise community is a core part of a live service game and they could look at other devs to get better at it.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

There speaks the voice of experience.

I've spent a fair bit of my career in support roles and done my time on helpdesk. There is quite a bit of crossover. I love helping people, but there are always those who will criticise regardless, and with some people its almost like they don't want to be helped, they just want to complain.

Getting a bit off topic here though, because CMs are not support, and FD's support is generally considered to be pretty good (except when someone is having a rant at them )

 

[babelfisch]

That's very different. Those are add-ons, not core content, and often developed by single individuals.

Has there ever been a large-scale event comparable in size and complexity to Dw2 or the Salome one entirely organized by Frontier?

The effort to create mods like Enderal and their complexity is like a million times higher than the events you mentioned.

PS
Now that you clarified your point it makes more sense to me, I am pretty sure that I could find other games where in-game events are handled by the community though.

 

[TheSynopticVision]

My point is more that most games have decent CM teams, but there are always those who will never be satisfied. Seen it on so many forums where i've felt the CM was actually quite good.

Its also worth remembering that the CMs often have their hands tied. People might say the CM team should give more info, but if their management are saying no to that, then they can't do anything.

I see it a lot on the Fortnite sub. They have a really awesome CM active on the reddit called Magyst. He's fun, he's friendly, he's helpful, but you still see threads and posts from people saying "Epic has the worst CM team ever!"

Well, exactly. It's gonna happen no matter what, true. On average, "gamers" suck.

But so, it's still perfectly allowed for us to express polite but precise complaints about how they do communicate (and about the general development trajectory of the game). The fact that there are buttorifices out there should not preclude us from complaining in an appropriate manner.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

That was my plan for this thread but I will admit I've got caught up in the storm and thrown some unfair comments (like the live streaming one).

I don't expect anything will come from this thread or the other one but I would like the CM team to realise community is a core part of a live service game and they could look at other devs to get better at it.

In any job its always worth looking around to see how others in the same role do things and what you can learn from them. I'd expect the same from the CMs, the devs, the QAs, the management, etc.

I mean, if you want those salary increases, you have to justify it to management, so self-improvement is one that goes a long way to getting it.

 

[Lordxenu]

My point is more that most games have decent CM teams, but there are always those who will never be satisfied. Seen it on so many forums where i've felt the CM was actually quite good.

Its also worth remembering that the CMs often have their hands tied. People might say the CM team should give more info, but if their management are saying no to that, then they can't do anything.

I see it a lot on the Fortnite sub. They have a really awesome CM active on the reddit called Magyst. He's fun, he's friendly, he's helpful, but you still see threads and posts from people saying "Epic has the worst CM team ever!"

I only think part of this is news I think the other part and the big bit the CM team is missing is openly discussing the game.

Again I go back to DE saying the archwing sucked, you can talk to the dev team in the way you would talk to other players and not just the corporate robot response approach we have.

There is no 2 way conversation with the CM team on forums, reddit, twitter or streams it's all the CM team giving us info as and when they feel like it.

Yes the dev updates are partly (I say this because they should be pushing form more openess not just accepting what they're told) out of CM control but conversation isn't.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I only think part of this is news I think the other part and the big bit the CM team is missing is openly discussing the game.

Again I go back to DE saying the archwing sucked, you can talk to the dev team in the way you would talk to other players and not just the corporate robot response approach we have.

There is no 2 way conversation with the CM team on forums, reddit, twitter or streams it's all the CM team giving us info as and when they feel like it.

Yes the dev updates are partly (I say this because they should be pushing form more openess not just accepting what they're told) out of CM control but conversation isn't.

Again, probably not an issue of the CM team, more likely an issue relating to management telling them what they can and cannot say.