Where is the exploration?

[Northpin]

I'm sure that their version of the FSS didn't do all the work for them.

Oh, so you are one of those guys who will NOT use a gps software, but will rather stop at crossroads to ask for directions or to unfold a large map or simply get lost because real men don't ask for directions
Ofc the FSS doesn't do all the work, it gives you an image of the system and you decide if you just jump away or analize all those signals. Yes, it has its part of handwavium, but still...

 

[[ kraken ]]

So, guys, I understand that before the FSS you had no way at all of knowing if a body was worth investigating, so you just had to go there. That was not fun, I agree. So I understand why so many people must like the FSS. Also, reaching all the way to a body way out there, that could have been a barren asteroid for all you knew, must have brought with it a great amount of tedium.

Now, as I have not experienced that tedium, I am of the opinion that the FSS goes way too far. By telling you exactly what that body is and what you will find on it, and telling it all in plain text, it takes off important parts of what makes the exploration engaging. That would be errors, overlooking things, plain laziness.

The previous system didn't give you the possibility to make mistakes, either, right? You either went to that far away body, or you didn't. The current system also doesn't give the possibility to make mistakes. That is the reason why exploration is a 25 systems per hour grind. And that's entirely my beef.

Now, if the FSS gave you data to interpret - and again I need to point, not scientific data that requires a degree to read, but game data, toy data that's fun to play with, and according to that data you had to make an informed decision whether it was worth it or not to drive all the way to that far away body... would you like it better?

 

[Northpin]

Oh, you can have the randomness if you want...
Just use the FSS to find out High Grade Emissions. You find one, you target it and it give you the name of the faction and the state. State is: Boom and you conclude that this means you will get some juicy Proto Radiolic Alloys. So you fly there, sometimes 15000ls, and you got Core Dynamics Composites

I'm pretty sure i don't want this level of randomness doing exploration. HGE's have enough of it.

 

[Riverside]

Oh, you can have the randomness if you want...
Just use the FSS to find out High Grade Emissions. You find one, you target it and it give you the name of the faction and the state. State is: Boom and you conclude that this means you will get some juicy Proto Radiolic Alloys. So you fly there, sometimes 15000ls, and you got Core Dynamics Composites

I'm pretty sure i don't want this level of randomness doing exploration. HGE's have enough of it.

So being able to make educated guesses would be better than just randomness for you?

 

[[ kraken ]]

Oh, you can have the randomness if you want...
Just use the FSS to find out High Grade Emissions. You find one, you target it and it give you the name of the faction and the state. State is: Boom and you conclude that this means you will get some juicy Proto Radiolic Alloys. So you fly there, sometimes 15000ls, and you got Core Dynamics Composites

I'm pretty sure i don't want this level of randomness doing exploration. HGE's have enough of it.

Ok. That means that you'd like it better if the FSS pointed you to those alloys you were looking for directly, right?

 

[Riverside]

Ok. That means that you'd like it better if the FSS pointed you to those alloys you were looking for directly, right?

So if you locate & point your FSS 'telescope' at a single signal it would show you a wave that acted as a mass spectrogram showing likely elements on the horizontal scale and quantity on the vertical scale. USSs would be small on the vertical scale but with highly specific patterns on the horizontal scale, planets would be distinguished by size on the vertical scale & composition on the horizontal.

The UI could look very similar to what we currently see in the game but rather than resolving by signal type with the tuning, zooming would filter out signals not currently on the scope until a single signal is resolved (functionally much as it is now but without the need to tune).

That way you don't know that there is an earth-like in the system, but with experience you might make an educated guess that all the elements required for an earth-like exist in the system. Ditto with any particular mats, which would instead be found in a USS.

Not sure I've explained that very well

 

[[ kraken ]]

So if you locate & point your FSS 'telescope' at a single signal it would show you a wave that acted as a mass spectrogram showing likely elements on the horizontal scale and quantity on the vertical scale. USSs would be small on the vertical scale but with highly specific patterns on the horizontal scale, planets would be distinguished by size on the vertical scale & composition on the horizontal.

The UI could look very similar to what we currently see in the game but rather than resolving by signal type with the tuning, zooming would filter out signals not currently on the scope until a single signal is resolved (functionally much as it is now but without the need to tune).

That way you don't know that there is an earth-like in the system, but with experience you might make an educated guess that all the elements required for an earth-like exist in the system. Ditto with any particular mats, which would instead be found in a USS.

Not sure I've explained that very well

I couldn't have done better.

That would bring gameplay to what is now grind.

 

[Northpin]

Oh, so it will be like a sistem wide HGE?
As is it now, I can make an educated guess that a Boom HGE might contain Proto Radiolic Alloys, but most of the time it doesn't.

Ok. That means that you'd like it better if the FSS pointed you to those alloys you were looking for directly, right?

Not really, a certain degree of randomness is good. And randomness exists out there
But too much of it will set you on the path that leads to Space Madness. And while in or around the Bubble there are many ways to cure the Space Madness, out there in the black all you have are the voices that tell you to push the Red Button.

 

[Stigbob]

I couldn't have done better.

That would bring gameplay to what is now grind.

I like operating the spock-o-scope as it is, but then I tend to pootle about in new systems with landings, SLF and SRV daftness. Grind is just what some players choose to do repetitively doing exactly the same thing to the exclusion of all else till they've worm all the fun off it without any variation at all.

The thing to remember about grinders is that they are never ever happy about the results of what they do. Grind is the little death.

 

[[ kraken ]]

You see, it wouldn't really make a big difference to the experienced explorer, because players are already "hacking" what information they get to find the exact materials they need.
i.e.

Just use the FSS to find out High Grade Emissions. You find one, you target it and it give you the name of the faction and the state. State is: Boom and you conclude that this means you will get some juicy Proto Radiolic Alloys.

So reading off the sensors for that exact material would actually be much quicker once you know what to look for and ruled out interferences. It would be a bonus for something you've learned: that's an achievement. Everyone wins.

 

[[ kraken ]]

I like operating the spock-o-scope as it is, but then I tend to pootle about in new systems with landings, SLF and SRV daftness. Grind is just what some players choose to do repetitively doing exactly the same thing to the exclusion of all else till they've worm all the fun off it without any variation at all.

The thing to remember about grinders is that they are never ever happy about the results of what they do. Grind is the little death.

When the game exludes me from play, I'm left with exactly that: make my own fun elsewhere, land somewhere I find pretty and engage in low gravity fun with a huge moon (actually, that's the planet) raising behind a geyser. Very picturesque. I still think it's a poor design choice for a game.

 

[Northpin]

Well, I expect my FSS/Scanners to give me reliable information and not metaphors in the same way I expect my FSD to deliver my ship to the destination, not to drop me half way and hear Covas saying "Oops, apparently my educated guess about the fuel consumption to get there was wrong. We are stranded, Commander"

 

[Stigbob]

When the game exludes me from play, I'm left with exactly that: make my own fun elsewhere, land somewhere I find pretty and engage in low gravity fun with a huge moon (actually, that's the planet) raising behind a geyser. Very picturesque. I still think it's a poor design choice for a game.

I choose not to PVP because it means recombobulating controls&ship build and that's more faff than I think its worth most of the time. That's not the game excluding me, its me exercising a personal preference.

Half full or half empty is your choice.

 

[[ kraken ]]

I choose not to PVP because it means recombobulating controls&ship build and that's more faff than I think its worth most of the time. That's not the game excluding me, its me exercising a personal preference.

Half full or half empty is your choice.

Nah. So if it wasn't too much faff, you would PVP? It's fine that you're accepting it, but it's not your personal preference.

 

[Stigbob]

Nah. So if it wasn't too much faff, you would PVP? It's fine that you're accepting it, but it's not your personal preference.

Its irrelevant to me as I choose not to do it by personal preference, so demanding changes in it to suit me doesn't make any sense. I just do things I like more instead.

 

[[ kraken ]]

Its irrelevant to me as I choose not to do it by personal preference, so demanding changes in it to suit me doesn't make any sense. I just do things I like more instead.

Ok, good for you. I like to explore and I can't explore at the moment because current design choices make it a grind. Do you like to explore?

 

[Rat Catcher]

Nah. So if it wasn't too much faff, you would PVP? It's fine that you're accepting it, but it's not your personal preference.

Its irrelevant to me as I choose not to do it by personal preference, so demanding changes in it to suit me doesn't make any sense. I just do things I like more instead.

Love it! 2 diametrically opposite views of the same thing. We all play 'our' game, others play 'theirs' and ne'er may the twain meet

I don't PvP as there are many other ways to be bored spitless for me, so what - it doesn't affect anyone else's play...

OP: The exploration is there, if you want it to be, but what you are given by the game may not be 'your' interptetation of your needs... Just look at the positives - this could be much worse and involve spreadsheet management too

 

[[ kraken ]]

Well, I expect my FSS/Scanners to give me reliable information and not metaphors in the same way I expect my FSD to deliver my ship to the destination, not to drop me half way and hear Covas saying "Oops, apparently my educated guess about the fuel consumption to get there was wrong. We are stranded, Commander"

Ok but wait, that would be your FSD that got you stranded there, not a mistake on your part. Your sensors would always give you reliable information (even though I see much room for all sorts of jamming and funny attacks, there's not a Bermuda Triangle in this galaxy? But never mind), so it's not like you need to interpret metaphors.

In your FSS there's a filtered spectrograph already and I have learnt in just one day which wavelenghts correspond to emissions, to asteroids, to rocky worlds, ice worlds, gas giants, etc., in just one day! I'm sure you guys know much more than I do. We can all tell them by sound right now. So... is it really necessary that the FSS locks us to the correct solution? Just so that we can mark that planet as discovered and move on?

 

[Rat Catcher]

Sorry: I don't PvP in game, but you may find me lurking (and getting killed mercilessly by other n00bs) on CQC - which if you've ignored as it is 'pants' is your loss...

Just clarification on my previous post

 

[[ kraken ]]

Love it! 2 diametrically opposite views of the same thing. We all play 'our' game, others play 'theirs' and ne'er may the twain meet

I don't PvP as there are many other ways to be bored spitless for me, so what - it doesn't affect anyone else's play...

OP: The exploration is there, if you want it to be, but what you are given by the game may not be 'your' interptetation of your needs... Just look at the positives - this could be much worse and involve spreadsheet management too

I know... I believe I've made my point I should call it done. It's not like I need to convince people to like what I do. This thread has become more a way to talk it out.