Is Engineering Required to Play in Open?

[Hellakitty]

Was there ever any doubt Horizons was pay to win?

Of course it is, you pay money for the expansion and get access to items that are orders of magnitude more powerful than someone who didn't pay that money. Those items can be used against other players who don't have expansion.

It's as clear cut a case of P2W as you can get, no doubt driven by FD's cynical marketing department in an attempt to coerce people into buying the season pass.

 

[Jenner]

If you want to PvP in Open and have a remotely fair engagement, then absolutely yes.

 

[Vedmo]

Was there ever any doubt Horizons was pay to win?

Of course it is, you pay money for the expansion and get access to items that are orders of magnitude more powerful than someone who didn't pay that money. Those items can be used against other players who don't have expansion.

It's as clear cut a case of P2W as you can get, no doubt driven by FD's cynical marketing department in an attempt to coerce people into buying the season pass.

Do you think games like MMORPGs that release paid expansions that increase character levels, add new gear of greater power, etc. are pay to win as well, or should the games forever be limited to an adherence that players who never go past the base game remain viable? Decades into WoW is my lvl 60's inability to put up a fight against a max level character a case of pay to win.

I'd say your idea of pay to win is horribly flawed and based in pedantry while ignoring the actual meaning of the term that was born of microtransactions selling superior gear. If pay to win now means what you say, then who cares, as it is now an innocuous term .

 

[Hellakitty]

Do you think games like MMORPGs that release paid expansions that increase character levels, add new gear of greater power, etc. are pay to win as well, or should the games forever be limited to an adherence that players who never go past the base game remain viable? Decades into WoW is my lvl 60's inability to put up a fight against a max level character a case of pay to win.

I'd say your idea of pay to win is horribly flawed and based in pedantry while ignoring the actual meaning of the term that was born of microtransactions selling superior gear. If pay to win now means what you say, then who cares, as it is now an innocuous term .

And?

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Yes. Absolutely. A must. There's no reason to gimp yourself by buying half the game. Open that wallet, pay for the rest of the game, engineer your ship an inch from death itself, and spread those seal-wings.

Oh, wait. Maybe none of that matters with the new Drag Munitions buff. Hmm.

Nevermind.

Ever watch the cooking show Chopped?

FDev reminds me of that show. How?

Chefs, open your baskets.

Inside is a 12 ounce wagu beef steak, fresh asparagus, black truffles and.... a box of marshmallow peeps. You have to use all these ingredients and make something our judges won’t throw up.

FDev seems to like to do the same kind of thing - here’s a great list of fine gourmet ingredients and a steaming piece of dung to ruin it.

 

[Old Duck]

If a "large number of players" on PS4 only have the base game, isn't there safety in numbers? Playing in open must feel like a herd of wildebeest crossing a croc infested river. All you have to do is swim faster than the next guy.

As someone who occasionally "griefs*" Black Suit Sidewinder Sidewinders (aka - base game players), the "herd" is just more juicy targets to shoot at. After all, it's not like everyone leaves the mailslot at the same time.

* I like to think of it as "giving you a hug with my weapons"

 

[firemane]

As someone else said earlier, you don't need engineering in open unless you are absolutely certain you are going to fight other players. If that is the case, you need more than engineering. You need a Meta combat fit.

If you go into Open with something less than that the difference between an engineered vs a vanilla ship is measured in terms of how many seconds they take to pop. Engineers generate such a power curve that a non combat fit will melt away in a few salvos. That doesn't mean it is not playable or survivable. It means you need to be aware of your surroundings and always have a plan regarding when, where, and how you are going to run.

You also need to accept that here is no sense, reason, or balance to most of the attacks you will face in open. Clicking on the option to go into open means you have no problem with getting attacked and destroyed. No amount of engineering is going to save you from that.

Thankfully, we have options.

 

[Thepirateorc]

I ask because of the current debate around Drag Munitions and the potential need for everyone to have one DM on their ships to survive a player attack. Here's the thing - a large number of players (at least on PS4) only have the base game, not Horizons. What does this mean for them? What does it mean for new players who haven't unlocked the appropriate Engineers? Is this just another nail in the "Horizons is P2W" debate?

I'm just curious...

ps - Jenny is still working on unlocking Engineers, so she currently doesn't have DM to choose from.

Yes engineering is required unfortunely

 

[lomac]

I'm surprised you don't get pwnd by engineered AI. Engineering is required for PVP for sure, engineered is the new A rating. I get attacked by engineered NPCs quite often. I don't know if it's my rank, only Elite I have is in trading, Combat is 33% Dangerous. But I get hit with Elite NPCs with engineered stuff all the time. If it's the same class of ship it's usually over for me. Fortunately lately it's been smaller ships but they still hurt.

 

[Commander Biscuit]

Some mental gymnastics right here. Drag munitions is P2W. Do you have a career in journalism OP?

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

I ask because of the current debate around Drag Munitions and the potential need for everyone to have one DM on their ships to survive a player attack. Here's the thing - a large number of players (at least on PS4) only have the base game, not Horizons. What does this mean for them? What does it mean for new players who haven't unlocked the appropriate Engineers? Is this just another nail in the "Horizons is P2W" debate?

I'm just curious...

ps - Jenny is still working on unlocking Engineers, so she currently doesn't have DM to choose from.

Wait, where are you getting that from?

Drag won't help you survive btw.

 

[Spacecat]

Not if you don't mind being blown up a lot.

 

[Majic-12]

If by "play" you mean "donate easy kills to needy gankers", then no, engineering is not required.

 

[AlaricVonDrago]

100% it is not required. There's plethoras of videos and how tos on how to avoid being ganked, 100% stock vs. maxed out engineered ships even.

Then again, why bring a knife to a gun fight?

 

[space voyager]

Totally agree, engineered NPCs should have been restricted to CZs and the ATC "Judge Dread" crew.

Perhaps they should be restricted to Horizons?

 

[Valorin]

I'm not at all concerned about any combat changes, but the drag munition thing being such a nice tool to stop players from getting away now might be a reason for me to avoid Open. There is really no reason if the chances to escape a gank attack are pretty much zero now.
I kinda hope they revert that little "tweak" before I return to the Bubble.

 

[Kethriss]

The only thing that's required to play in Open is you understanding that the moment you click that button you're consenting to anything and everything that might happen to you PvP-wise.

But people go in there without that anyway so do what you want.

 

[Firebeard]

I play open all the time, in my time playing (since 2014) I believe I've met 2 commanders at the same time in a system.

Now I know I don't tend to gravitate towards the mass population centres - for instance I'm currently potttering around Van Maanens star because I happen to like mad hippy monks - but "open is a deathtrap" really is a situation that I have never ever encountered.

I have engineered Serenity my Cobra III completely now and its taken a long time because I get bored. You dont NEED to engineer a ship unless you INTEND to go try fighting people.

 

[babelfisch]

Was there ever any doubt Horizons was pay to win?

Of course it is, you pay money for the expansion and get access to items that are orders of magnitude more powerful than someone who didn't pay that money. Those items can be used against other players who don't have expansion.

It's as clear cut a case of P2W as you can get, no doubt driven by FD's cynical marketing department in an attempt to coerce people into buying the season pass.

Traditionally the term pay to win comes from free to play games that offer a direct advantage via an in-game real money item store. Encounter another player who is better than you? We'll just let me buy that magic potion which instantly doubles my health points for £4.99. That's a 'clear cut case of P2W as you can get'.
Of course you are free to apply that term to Elite as well, it just doesn't mean the same thing.

It's similar to how people use the term 'space-sim' the wrong way. Some people claim that Elite is not a space-sim because it's not a realistic simulation. Space-sim doesn't mean realistic simulation though, traditionally it's a term that was invented to describe games like Elite, Freelancer, Freespace, Wing Commander, etc.

 

[Para Handy]

Perhaps they should be restricted to Horizons?

I don't think that would have been necessary. The thing is that your combat rank increases with survival (even being killed doesn't knock it back) so it creeps up even for a non-combat oriented person. Added to this is the fact that your ranking in the other "careers" adds to your combat rank for the purposes of NPC-spawn scaling. So someone who is not a combat type will eventually end up facing engineered NPCs. I seem to remember that NPCs would only use engineering in CZs but of course that is not the case any more (I might not be remembering correctly of course).