It's good that FD specialized on video games

[Starman 1966]

Imagine they would develop software for airplanes or medical devices instead.

SCNR

The power priorities reset bug and the way FD wants us to bulk trade at the moment with endless clicks for buying and selling is most annoying.

Whereas the new drag feature is a bit strange. The NPCs I shoot at with drag frags keep happily boosting as always. Maybe this effect is not working correctly as intended against NPCs like other special such as heat or module damaging weapons.

I very much hope that this mess will be fixed soon.

 

[Crank Larson]

Yes, isn't it lucky that aeroplane's software and hardware is left to competent manufacturers like Boeing? Oh, wait...

Sorry, but it's a ridiculous comparison anyway. Only pixels have died playing E: D.

 

[Popalu]

What like Boing and their 767-Max planes, which has a software glitch, which you have to pay more for the fix, otherwise it crashes killing hundreds!!!

@Crank, just read your post, snap lol

 

[Riverside]

AW609 Crash Report

In Italy the law doesn't recognise corporate responsibility, instead the managers & directors in the chain of command are personally liable and can potentially face a prison sentence if they are determined to be negligent rather than just a massive fine for the company.

I'm not sure I would wish that kind of accountability on anyone. Bugs in a game just aren't in the same ballpark.

 

[c64orinoco]

Elite Dangerous doesn't cost US$121 Million to play - nor does it ACTUALLY KILL YOU if it makes an error.

Not really a very good comparison, is it?

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Imagine they would develop software for airplanes or medical devices instead.

Sure. Are you willing to pay the approximately 25x-50x extra cost for software developed to that sort of standard (so bought at full price, around £1000 to £2000 for Elite Dangerous, and the same again for Horizons? ... but you could probably pick it up in a sale for £250 or so each if you were patient?)

It sounds expensive, but it'd be worth it to have no bugs at all, right?

 

[Dillon Fallon]

Is the OP suggesting that software developers for the airline and medical device industries never receive customer complaints?

Frontier seem to be managing are perfectly well at making sure injury, loss of life and damage to property is prevented by use of their product. Unless of course an issue with how drag is implemented has some wider, real life implication.

Frontier have also said the boost preventing effect will be rolled back due to the amount of complaints about this being overpowered. I've no problem with NPCs not being affected by this since this debuff would make them far too easy to kill.

 

[Stealthie]

Reminds me of the old joke about how we're lucky Kawasaki limit themselves to building ships.

Honda and Yamaha both make reliable motorbikes and their engines often get used to power light aircraft.
Kawasaki, OTOH, make some sexy bikes but they have a reputation for being, to be blunt, a bit shoddy and you probably wouldn't want a Kawasaki engine keeping your plane in the air.

Course, I ride a Ducati and, frankly, I wouldn't trust a Ducati engine to power a cement mixer.

 

[Factabulous]

Sure. Are you willing to pay the approximately 25x-50x extra cost for software developed to that sort of standard (so bought at full price, around £1000 to £2000 for Elite Dangerous, and the same again for Horizons? ... but you could probably pick it up in a sale for £250 or so each if you were patient?)

It sounds expensive, but it'd be worth it to have no bugs at all, right?

Don't forget - fdev would also want to control the hardware configuration as well - many bugs are due to custom hardware and its failures. So you would have to buy a custom hardware to run your bug-free ED. And no custom peripherals, another common cause of bugs. So there would maybe be one certified HOTAS, and one certified gamepad. And of course the keyboard that comes with your ED game-machine. Not cheap, but I guess some would pay.

 

[Starman 1966]

Some guys shouldn't take this comparison too seriously. As I mentioned above: SCNR

Of course it's clear that certain software applications cost a zillionfold more compared to a video game for a reason. And of course it's fine that FD provides updates and game extensions without charging additional fees after the initial purchase. But - and this is a serious but - I prefer no updates or delayed updates over bugged and/or non-tested ones. As some other threads have repeatedly asked: Does FD play its own games from time to time?

 

[Crank Larson]

Funnily enough, someone bought the Honda VFR 800 engine from my old bike to use to power a microlight type aircraft. I don't know if they ever completed it. I've never had any problems with Honda engines. Once they're built, they simply work.

 

[Crank Larson]

As I mentioned above: SCNR

Stupid Comparison, Nonsensical Reasoning?

 

[galahad2069]

Sure. Are you willing to pay the approximately 25x-50x extra cost for software developed to that sort of standard (so bought at full price, around £1000 to £2000 for Elite Dangerous, and the same again for Horizons? ... but you could probably pick it up in a sale for £250 or so each if you were patient?)

It sounds expensive, but it'd be worth it to have no bugs at all, right?

Wrong.

I've seen Skyrim mods created by amateurs (or even a single amateur individual) that were much more thoroughly tested and bug free than these ED updates created by a whole company of a bunch of professionals. And many of those mods required a whole lot of tedious reverse engineering of the original code which is a nightmare to do in itself.

And guess what, all of them were free.

Some people do their work to a high standard not only because they are paid for it, but because they would feel ashamed to release unfinished crap from under their hands.
Others, apparently, not so much.

 

[Crank Larson]

I've seen Skyrim mods created by amateurs (or even a single amateur individual) that were much more thoroughly tested and bug free than these ED updates created by a whole company of a bunch of professionals.

And how do you think those amateurs would fare if they had to build Skyrim, rather than just some stuff that lived in it? Another nonsensical comparison. This thread is getting fun!

 

[galahad2069]

And how do you think those amateurs would fare if they had to build Skyrim, rather than just some stuff that lived in it? Another nonsensical comparison. This thread is getting fun!

We are talking about an update to Elite: Dangerous, not the core game itself. An update is basically nothing more than a mod, and the programmers working on an update, unlike modders, even have the advantage of being the creator of the original code, or having access to all the necessary documentation.

So no, the comparison isn't nonsensical in the least.

 

[Dillon Fallon]

Wrong.

I've seen Skyrim mods created by amateurs (or even a single amateur individual) that were much more thoroughly tested and bug free than these ED updates created by a whole company of a bunch of professionals. And many of those mods required a whole lot of tedious reverse engineering of the original code which is a nightmare to do in itself.

And guess what, all of them were free.

Some people do their work to a high standard not only because they are paid for it, but because they would feel ashamed to release unfinished crap from under their hands.
Others, apparently, not so much.

I wonder how they'd have looked if Bethesda had created them.

Put these mods in a corporate world with deadlines and other priorities and the labour of love that those mods were would be very different.

 

[Crank Larson]

We are talking about an update to Elite: Dangerous, not the core game itself. An update is basically nothing more than a mod, and the programmers working on an update, unlike modders, even have the advantage of being the creator of the original code, or having access to all the necessary documentation.

So no, the comparison isn't nonsensical in the least.

Elite: Dangerous is the core game. What is it you think you are playing?

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Wrong.

Question: have you ever, personally, programmed any complex software?

If not, I recommend you start - people like you who can confidently produce bug-free code for free just through the strength of their work ethic are in great demand!

 

[galahad2069]

I wonder how they'd have looked if Bethesda had created them.

Put these mods in a corporate world with deadlines and other priorities and the labour of love that those mods were would be very different.

I, for one, certainly haven't set any kind of deadline for them regarding this update. So they could happily keep testing if for one more week or two (or how much time it would take them to spot hidden bugs like the module integrity or power priority one, let alone the FPS drops and the 10Cr bug).

 

[Deleted member 38366]

Question: have you ever, personally, programmed any complex software?

If not, I recommend you start - people like you who can confidently produce bug-free code for free just through the strength of their work ethic are in great demand!

I'm pretty sure it's not the Devs solely at fault, just give it enough pressure, poor management decisions and unrealistic deadlines.
The non-existence or "non-possibility" of bug-free code is a myth, an urban legend planted by the "let's go cheap & agile" Industry to get away with lowering quality standards.

People have produced highly complex code in native machine language many decades ago, without all the shiny debugging tools and management options we enjoy today.
Guess what, it still runs today with no weekly or monthly patches needed - the hardware has to die for the Software to malfunction. In fact "patch" wasn't even a concept, a thing.

And there's a fine line between some rare bug that made it through testing - and seeing a product that visibly and clearly underwent no testing at all.
"If it compiles - we'll release it!" seems the current mantra here. With all expected and predictable consequences, who'd have thought.
Seriously, there's no white knighting possible for that, no matter how anyone tries to twist it.