Can the forum moderators please dowse this place in vinegar?

[VR Jay Le Chardon]

Reason I ask them to do that is I am getting fed up of all the salt and want something to neutralise it. Yes this might sound like a click-baity title, but it is genuinely frustrating to come in here and see nothing but vitriol and salt.

Why can't we be a witty tinfoiling group again?

I remember in the old days of the formidine rift mega threads there was a sense of community, even a year or so ago there were numerous bursts of positivity, most of which are catalogued in Alec's best of the forum threads, such cohen leth's epic paint job suggestions, actual meaningful debate on what space legs could bring to the game, the community sharing sights to see, things to try...

What would it take, other than a few cubic metres of mild acid, to turn this places atmosphere around? What would make the forum a happier place?

Some things I think might help:

• More communication on bug reports - a great many of us find the peeks behind the curtain into games mechanics inner workings fascinating, so even a work in progress, "we see the issue, its related to X, where it interacts with Y, so we are preparing a patch to fix this unintended interaction coming soon™" would buy a lot of good will.
• Consult us on some of the design decisions, it is a forum, use it to discuss. The Drag munitions tweak launched a tidalwave of briney tears from PvP types. Reason being it nerfed the meta, but we never knew why FDev did that, what the thinking behind it was, what counters they intended to be used against it, and now we never will. But the game has made it into the press for unpopular changes being earmarked to roll back. Kind of mild egg on FDev's face that could have been avoided by discussing potential tweaks with the players.
• There is probably a tonne of information that is released by FDev on the bi weekly streams about things in game or on their way into the game.
  • But this game is unique in its demographic segment is fairly older than the average MMO as a large segment of us playing the game are veterans of either the first second or third games in the franchies, 35,26, 25 years ago respectively.
  • Games that the average MMO player wasn't even born when they were current.
  • Ergo a lot of the player base of elite aren't of the streaming generation and are disinclined to spend a few hours at a time watching streams. So I'd suggest someone from FDev make a "TLDR" of the streams, and or release edited highlights. I honestly don't think they start these streams and think we'll just amble on infront of camera chatting with the audience as we play elite, they have a script to loosely adhere to, more like an agenda of things they want to discuss.
  • Format that script / agenda into a newsletter with a couple of youtube links in there for good measure would really help the feeling of lack of engagement from the developers.
• Breaking the perceived lack of engagement from the developers might reduce the animosity they are currently getting. Which in turn might improve the tone of the forums?

I'll stop now, possibly abruptly so as not to let this drift into becoming a beautifully formatted wall of "wrong" text. Instead of me ambling on, I'd like to hear your suggestions of what can be done...

 

[Jaggid Edje]

Incoming Salt?

Seriously though, really like all of your suggestions. I'm only 2 months into the game, and all of this would be great and would have been super super great when I was brand new.

Forums have actually been very helpful even as they are now, thanks to helpful members willing to answer noob questions, but improvement is always welcome.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Vinegar doesn't neutralize salt, in fact, salts are (generally) the result of the neutralization of an acid and a base, for example, HCl + NaOH = NaCl + H2O.

 

[JonLuis69]

I'm honestly losing the will to participate, not in the game but in the forums.
Some comments deserve a literal, in real life, smack in the mouth. (not that I'm advocating violence).

 

[Stealthie]

Reason I ask them to do that is I am getting fed up of all the salt and want something to neutralise it. Yes this might sound like a click-baity title, but it is genuinely frustrating to come in here and see nothing but vitriol and salt.

Other websites are available.

 

[Das Boot]

Vinegar doesn't neutralize salt, in fact, salts are (generally) the result of the neutralization of an acid and a base, for example, HCl + NaOH = NaCl + H2O.

And if you take that salt, and add vinegar, you will get your hydrochloric acid back and some sodium acetate, which can then be used to flavour your salt & vinegar chips.
Job done.

 

[Speedcuffs]

And in you take that salt, and add vinegar, you will get your hydrochloric acid back and some sodium acetate, which can then be used to flavour your salt & vinegar chips.
Job done.

Nomnomnom!

 

[Lightspeed]

Reason I ask them to do that is I am getting fed up of all the salt and want something to neutralise it. Yes this might sound like a click-baity title, but it is genuinely frustrating to come in here and see nothing but vitriol and salt.

Why can't we be a witty tinfoiling group again?

I remember in the old days of the formidine rift mega threads there was a sense of community, even a year or so ago there were numerous bursts of positivity, most of which are catalogued in Alec's best of the forum threads, such cohen leth's epic paint job suggestions, actual meaningful debate on what space legs could bring to the game, the community sharing sights to see, things to try...

What would it take, other than a few cubic metres of mild acid, to turn this places atmosphere around? What would make the forum a happier place?

Some things I think might help:

• More communication on bug reports - a great many of us find the peeks behind the curtain into games mechanics inner workings fascinating, so even a work in progress, "we see the issue, its related to X, where it interacts with Y, so we are preparing a patch to fix this unintended interaction coming soon™" would buy a lot of good will.
• Consult us on some of the design decisions, it is a forum, use it to discuss. The Drag munitions tweak launched a tidalwave of briney tears from PvP types. Reason being it nerfed the meta, but we never knew why FDev did that, what the thinking behind it was, what counters they intended to be used against it, and now we never will. But the game has made it into the press for unpopular changes being earmarked to roll back. Kind of mild egg on FDev's face that could have been avoided by discussing potential tweaks with the players.
• There is probably a tonne of information that is released by FDev on the bi weekly streams about things in game or on their way into the game.
  • But this game is unique in its demographic segment is fairly older than the average MMO as a large segment of us playing the game are veterans of either the first second or third games in the franchies, 35,26, 25 years ago respectively.
  • Games that the average MMO player wasn't even born when they were current.
  • Ergo a lot of the player base of elite aren't of the streaming generation and are disinclined to spend a few hours at a time watching streams. So I'd suggest someone from FDev make a "TLDR" of the streams, and or release edited highlights. I honestly don't think they start these streams and think we'll just amble on infront of camera chatting with the audience as we play elite, they have a script to loosely adhere to, more like an agenda of things they want to discuss.
  • Format that script / agenda into a newsletter with a couple of youtube links in there for good measure would really help the feeling of lack of engagement from the developers.
• Breaking the perceived lack of engagement from the developers might reduce the animosity they are currently getting. Which in turn might improve the tone of the forums?

I'll stop now, possibly abruptly so as not to let this drift into becoming a beautifully formatted wall of "wrong" text. Instead of me ambling on, I'd like to hear your suggestions of what can be done...

Some good points made in your post.

The problem with the Live Streams is that they are accompanied by one-line comments and questions which don't give Will and devs a reasonable understanding of the issues we are experiencing. All clamoring for attention.

When we previously had questions submitted beforehand, Will handled the question/answer sessions extremely well, and the devs were able to prepare answers beforehand also. This led to some very informative live streams.

 

[Kaocraft]

Frontier have had a number of "we're going to be more communicative and engaged with the community!" false starts over the years. They never deliver.

At this point not only do I have little faith in their abilities as devs on Elite, I have little faith in their ability to engage in honest communication. They are manipulative opportunists at the best of times, obnoxiously silent or tone-deaf and dishonest the rest of the time.

Forum salt is here to stay until Frontier establish a track record of doing good things.

Apologists always try to frame the situation as some kind of intractable double-bind lose-lose situation where Frontiers are surrounded by unreasonable people, but the truth is as simple as people don't like being ignored, lied to, and disappointed over and over again.

If Frontier released even one update that wasn't fundamentally broken, or if they stuck around and FIXED every broken thing after release rather than addressing the first two things Obsidian Ant puts in a video and then going dark forever, or (better yet) if they ran a public beta before release and then kept the beta going for as long as it takes to fix all major issues, including "back to the drawing board" style fundamental design issues; well if they ever even once did any of these things it would turn the forums around immediately.

As it stands, though, there's not a lot they can just SAY anymore because they've demonstrated time and again that their words mean nothing.

 

[Sir Ganksalot]

By salt do you mean the threads informing Fdev of the broken mess that they've created?

No one seems to have a problem when the forum is filled with salty threads complaining about griefers.

If you want boring screenshots and pointless posts of people showing off how much money they made from mining void opals, go join one of the ED Facebook groups.

 

[MintyBiscuits]

The game is broken. People like the game and are upset that it's broken. Enter: salt.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

What would it take, other than a few cubic metres of mild acid, to turn this places atmosphere around? What would make the forum a happier place?

Most of the more specialised forums - i.e. not News or Dangerous Discussion - are a lot more pleasant in atmosphere even when being really critical.

• Consult us on some of the design decisions, it is a forum, use it to discuss. The Drag munitions tweak launched a tidalwave of briney tears from PvP types. Reason being it nerfed the meta, but we never knew why FDev did that, what the thinking behind it was, what counters they intended to be used against it, and now we never will. But the game has made it into the press for unpopular changes being earmarked to roll back. Kind of mild egg on FDev's face that could have been avoided by discussing potential tweaks with the players.

They have tried discussing decisions before implementing them before, of course - the DDF, the "booster stacking" discussions around the various engineering updates, more recently Focused Feedback - and I think it's safe to say that while it generates a different kind of salt it doesn't really change the amount.

As it is we've kind of had:
- drag implemented
- giant pile of salt
- announcement of reversion a few days later
- another giant pile of salt from people who liked the idea
- and it'll be gone in this week's release and that'll be that

If they'd put up a forum post suggesting they might do it, there would have been weeks of theorycrafting salt over it - without the basic opportunities to actually test it that people have had now - and then weeks more complaints over whatever decision Frontier then made, demands for a public vote, etc.

We've still got people complaining now about Frontier not implementing the booster stacking nerf after consultation, and that was two years ago.

• There is probably a tonne of information that is released by FDev on the bi weekly streams about things in game or on their way into the game.
  • But this game is unique in its demographic segment is fairly older than the average MMO as a large segment of us playing the game are veterans of either the first second or third games in the franchies, 35,26, 25 years ago respectively.
  • Games that the average MMO player wasn't even born when they were current.
  • Ergo a lot of the player base of elite aren't of the streaming generation and are disinclined to spend a few hours at a time watching streams. So I'd suggest someone from FDev make a "TLDR" of the streams, and or release edited highlights. I honestly don't think they start these streams and think we'll just amble on infront of camera chatting with the audience as we play elite, they have a script to loosely adhere to, more like an agenda of things they want to discuss.
  • Format that script / agenda into a newsletter with a couple of youtube links in there for good measure would really help the feeling of lack of engagement from the developers.

Agreed that I'm not going to watch an hour of stream to get information I could read off the summary in two minutes. But ... Frontier often do put up summaries, at least when the stream had any substantive information in the first place - e.g. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/april-update-content-reveal-livestream-recap.509052/

 

[WR3ND]

How is this thread not salt or salt mongering in and of itself? This isn't in the forums suggestion and discussions section even.

 

[jasonbarron]

I'm having some trouble connecting the thread title with the body of the OP. Other than cherry picking the Drag conflict out of the conversation, it's mostly stuff the moderators can't help with, and to suggest the moderators should have stifled outcry against the effect changes is a special combination of lunacy, entitlement and hypocrisy.

 

[DeletedUser191218]

Reason I ask them to do that is I am getting fed up of all the salt and want something to neutralise it. Yes this might sound like a click-baity title, but it is genuinely frustrating to come in here and see nothing but vitriol and salt.

Why can't we be a witty tinfoiling group again?

I remember in the old days of the formidine rift mega threads there was a sense of community, even a year or so ago there were numerous bursts of positivity, most of which are catalogued in Alec's best of the forum threads, such cohen leth's epic paint job suggestions, actual meaningful debate on what space legs could bring to the game, the community sharing sights to see, things to try...

What would it take, other than a few cubic metres of mild acid, to turn this places atmosphere around? What would make the forum a happier place?

Some things I think might help:

• More communication on bug reports - a great many of us find the peeks behind the curtain into games mechanics inner workings fascinating, so even a work in progress, "we see the issue, its related to X, where it interacts with Y, so we are preparing a patch to fix this unintended interaction coming soon™" would buy a lot of good will.
• Consult us on some of the design decisions, it is a forum, use it to discuss. The Drag munitions tweak launched a tidalwave of briney tears from PvP types. Reason being it nerfed the meta, but we never knew why FDev did that, what the thinking behind it was, what counters they intended to be used against it, and now we never will. But the game has made it into the press for unpopular changes being earmarked to roll back. Kind of mild egg on FDev's face that could have been avoided by discussing potential tweaks with the players.
• There is probably a tonne of information that is released by FDev on the bi weekly streams about things in game or on their way into the game.
  • But this game is unique in its demographic segment is fairly older than the average MMO as a large segment of us playing the game are veterans of either the first second or third games in the franchies, 35,26, 25 years ago respectively.
  • Games that the average MMO player wasn't even born when they were current.
  • Ergo a lot of the player base of elite aren't of the streaming generation and are disinclined to spend a few hours at a time watching streams. So I'd suggest someone from FDev make a "TLDR" of the streams, and or release edited highlights. I honestly don't think they start these streams and think we'll just amble on infront of camera chatting with the audience as we play elite, they have a script to loosely adhere to, more like an agenda of things they want to discuss.
  • Format that script / agenda into a newsletter with a couple of youtube links in there for good measure would really help the feeling of lack of engagement from the developers.
• Breaking the perceived lack of engagement from the developers might reduce the animosity they are currently getting. Which in turn might improve the tone of the forums?

I'll stop now, possibly abruptly so as not to let this drift into becoming a beautifully formatted wall of "wrong" text. Instead of me ambling on, I'd like to hear your suggestions of what can be done...

Ironically, a very salty post. An entire new thread to complain about threads with complaints in them.

If you don't like to read people's complaints, don't read them. Otherwise, it's a public forum for people to express their views as they choose.

Like it or lump it.

 

[Helvellyn]

If enough people are unhappy that it's noticeable then you should be directing your energy at what's making them unhappy, not having a go at those people. Negative responses are just as valid as positive ones.

 

[Schmack]

Ironically, a very salty post. An entire new thread to complain about threads with complaints in them.

If you don't like to read people's complaints, don't read them. Otherwise, it's a public forum for people to express their views as they choose.

Like it or lump it.

take it down the road and dump it

 

[Schmack]

Reason I ask them to do that is I am getting fed up of all the salt and want something to neutralise it. Yes this might sound like a click-baity title, but it is genuinely frustrating to come in here and see nothing but vitriol and salt.

Why can't we be a witty tinfoiling group again?

I remember in the old days of the formidine rift mega threads there was a sense of community, even a year or so ago there were numerous bursts of positivity, most of which are catalogued in Alec's best of the forum threads, such cohen leth's epic paint job suggestions, actual meaningful debate on what space legs could bring to the game, the community sharing sights to see, things to try...

What would it take, other than a few cubic metres of mild acid, to turn this places atmosphere around? What would make the forum a happier place?

Some things I think might help:

• More communication on bug reports - a great many of us find the peeks behind the curtain into games mechanics inner workings fascinating, so even a work in progress, "we see the issue, its related to X, where it interacts with Y, so we are preparing a patch to fix this unintended interaction coming soon™" would buy a lot of good will.
• Consult us on some of the design decisions, it is a forum, use it to discuss. The Drag munitions tweak launched a tidalwave of briney tears from PvP types. Reason being it nerfed the meta, but we never knew why FDev did that, what the thinking behind it was, what counters they intended to be used against it, and now we never will. But the game has made it into the press for unpopular changes being earmarked to roll back. Kind of mild egg on FDev's face that could have been avoided by discussing potential tweaks with the players.
• There is probably a tonne of information that is released by FDev on the bi weekly streams about things in game or on their way into the game.
  • But this game is unique in its demographic segment is fairly older than the average MMO as a large segment of us playing the game are veterans of either the first second or third games in the franchies, 35,26, 25 years ago respectively.
  • Games that the average MMO player wasn't even born when they were current.
  • Ergo a lot of the player base of elite aren't of the streaming generation and are disinclined to spend a few hours at a time watching streams. So I'd suggest someone from FDev make a "TLDR" of the streams, and or release edited highlights. I honestly don't think they start these streams and think we'll just amble on infront of camera chatting with the audience as we play elite, they have a script to loosely adhere to, more like an agenda of things they want to discuss.
  • Format that script / agenda into a newsletter with a couple of youtube links in there for good measure would really help the feeling of lack of engagement from the developers.
• Breaking the perceived lack of engagement from the developers might reduce the animosity they are currently getting. Which in turn might improve the tone of the forums?

I'll stop now, possibly abruptly so as not to let this drift into becoming a beautifully formatted wall of "wrong" text. Instead of me ambling on, I'd like to hear your suggestions of what can be done...

Suggestion: Post in Solo

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

I use distilled vinegar to descale my kettle.

Not entirely sure what the forum equivalent of limescale is...

 

[DeletedUser191218]

Suggestion: Post in Solo

A fine response sir. A meta-joke. Wonderful stuff.