PvP Gankers in Fleetcomm at Beagle Point

[Bob Lighthouse]

Your analogy implies FDEV encourage PVP in PG's whose rules explicity prohibit it.

It's certain PGs that prohibit it like the hypothetical outlier restaurants, that's not FDev.

You have it backwards.
Unfettered PVP is the norm.

Farting on food is not.

At least not where I live, ymmv.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

Really really super? That's quite the superlative. Such wordsmanship is impressive.

It's seems naive to me to believe I wrote those words thinking they'd act as some sort of armor to pilots in a game. I don't have the wordsmanship you clearly do, and therefore know my words are a poor substitute for Military Grade Composite. I'm simply responding to a discussion amigo. As are you, but in a much more hyperbolic style.

My style is hyperbolic because I believe explorers have plugged their ears so badly the only way in is to nuke their attitudes from orbit.

Like I said, get some folks like myself or Jason to consult on security for DW3 and I can promise you two things:

1) We'll help make the experience more enjoyable for all no matter if you're an explorer or a ganker.
2) Salt created from shenanigans will be reduced noticeably from DW2.

 

[jasonbarron]

My style is hyperbolic because I believe explorers have plugged their ears so badly the only way in is to nuke their attitudes from orbit.

Like I said, get some folks like myself or Jason to consult on security for DW3 and I can promise you two things:

1) We'll help make the experience more enjoyable for all no matter if you're an explorer or a ganker.
2) Salt created from shenanigans will be reduced noticeably from DW2.

If DWEIII hires me on I promise to do a really really super good job protecting them.

 

[CMDR Plexus Ironrot]

All this hub bub about this "FleetComm" what is this

 

[Lucien Trask]

It's certain PGs that prohibit it like the hypothetical outlier restaurants, that's not FDev.

You have it backwards.
Unfettered PVP is the norm.

Farting on food is not.

At least not where I live, ymmv.

I respect you for trying to keep the fart thing going. Rock on bro. It was clearly an attempt to argue a point, not a discussion of eating habits in different regions.

FDEV support those PG rules by reimbursing. Unfettered PVP isn't the norm, or else they'd abandon Solo play, and dispense with PG's completely.

To be clear, I love the excitement and seat-of-the-pants type exhiliration that comes from taking an expensive Battleship 30 jumps through nullsec, I've never had more fun, knowing that I could be exploded at any minute. But I agreed to that by logging into an open pvp environment.

 

[Lucien Trask]

My style is hyperbolic because I believe explorers have plugged their ears so badly the only way in is to nuke their attitudes from orbit.

Like I said, get some folks like myself or Jason to consult on security for DW3 and I can promise you two things:

1) We'll help make the experience more enjoyable for all no matter if you're an explorer or a ganker.
2) Salt created from shenanigans will be reduced noticeably from DW2.

And that's cool. I call that 'emergent gameplay' and it's awesome. I'd definitely be down for that. But it then should be done in open, which is a pvp accepted area. Like it or not, FDEV created PG's to enable playing under a particular format agreed on by the players. They just failed in the implementation. That shouldn't come as a shock to anyone on these forums.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

FDEV support those PG rules by reimbursing.

Sounds like a band aid to support a high profile event to me. Do all PGs get this? Or just DW2 related ones? If so, why?

If FDEV was serious about supporting PG rules like you say what are they planning to change in the future?

 

[Lucien Trask]

Sounds like a band aid to support a high profile event to me.

AKA FDEV SOP?

Do all PGs get this? Or just DW2 related ones? If so, why?

No. Because, like you say, they're not high profile enough.

If FDEV was serious about supporting PG rules like you say what are they planning to change in the future?

This is FDEV we're talking about. How would I know what their plans are dude?

 

[jasonbarron]

Bob and Lucien, I'm not sure if this is helpful or even relevant, but I'll leave it here just in case:

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

No. Because, like you say, they're not high profile enough.

Well that's some garbage. If I make a PG, don't want PvP in it, and Wargfoot gets ganked by Harry Potter poor Wargy won't get his rebuy back?

I'm making a little joke there with the names, but hopefully my point is clear.

 

[Lucien Trask]

Well that's some garbage. If I make a PG, don't want PvP in it, and Wargfoot gets ganked by Harry Potter poor Wargy won't get his rebuy back?

I'm making a little joke there with the names, but hopefully my point is clear.

You're shifting the argument to something else now, but I'm sorry to say your point is in fact relatively unclear, just not due names.

My recommendation would be to try it and see what happens. Who knows, maybe FDEV will reimburse. I can't honestly speak to FDEV reimbursement thresholds.

Not sure what any of that has to do with the discussion at hand though.

 

[Han Zulu]

This is really, really super naive. We all know Elite isn't EvE, but how many people didn't get exploded because you said that?

EvE lite.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

I respect you for trying to keep the fart thing going. Rock on bro. It was clearly an attempt to argue a point, not a discussion of eating habits in different regions.

FDEV support those PG rules by reimbursing. Unfettered PVP isn't the norm, or else they'd abandon Solo play, and dispense with PG's completely.

To be clear, I love the excitement and seat-of-the-pants type exhiliration that comes from taking an expensive Battleship 30 jumps through nullsec, I've never had more fun, knowing that I could be exploded at any minute. But I agreed to that by logging into an open pvp environment.

That was my whole point, that analogy doesn't make sense.
If you want don't want to discuss that I don't know why you decided to engage me on it.

Open is the most popular mode by a wide margin, ergo unfetterd PVP IS the norm.
It's also the norm in a PG unless the PG owners specifically say otherwise, so the farting on food analogy makes no sense.

FDev support will reimburse all sorts of human error too.
So what?

I don't know of any measures they have taken against people breaking PG rules off hand, do you?
They seem to be specifically saying it's out of their purview/capabilities.

 

[Feros-da-Grundig]

Side note, does anyone remember all of the haughty claims that gankers lacked the patience to fly to Beagle, the insults that DG2 was throwing in the towel early, etc.?

Heh heh, I remember.

 

[Freyar]

Side note, does anyone remember all of the haughty claims that gankers lacked the patience to fly to Beagle, the insults that DG2 was throwing in the towel early, etc.?

Heh heh, I remember.

I was amused that DG2 stopped reporting anything on EDSM.

 

[Feros-da-Grundig]

I don't have the wordsmanship you clearly do, and therefore know my words are a poor substitute for Military Grade Composite.

I'm more succinct than Phisto, so allow me.

The majority of players entered this PG under the assumption that there isn't going to be any non-consentual, and fitted out a ship accordingly.

That majority of players were fools then, unless they were knowingly and willingly taking the risk of getting ganked by infiltrators. PGs have been being infiltrated since there were PGs.

 

[Caramel Clown]

I do think that ganking explorers is a sad and pathetic behavior, but honestly - explorers have all the means at hand now to protect themselves. With engineers offensive power grew immensely, but ability to escape ganks got exponentially better. Most gankers in popular exploration destinations don't even have their best builds. All they need is few guns to kill a typical explorer.
Jump ranges on exploration ships got so massive there's really no excuse not to sacrifice 5 or even 10Ly off your top range and gankproof your ship. And if you don't - then you have only yourself to blame. Reason why I loved exploring in Orca is that it was so incredibly safe. Barely few combat ships could keep up with me, and even then they'd be type of Couriers and Cobras with not enough firepower to stop me from just waking out. So many options these days.
I won't get into a debate about policing private groups and everything, since most complains still relate to open play.

 

[Lucien Trask]

That was my whole point, that analogy doesn't make sense.
If you want don't want to discuss that I don't know why you decided to engage me on it.

Good point! I engaged under the assumption you were referring to FDEV with your health dept. analogy. I think we can all agree the restaurant farting analogy wasn't an apt metaphor, but they rarely are, which is why I'm not inclined to use them myself.

Open is the most popular mode by a wide margin, ergo unfetterd PVP IS the norm.
It's also the norm in a PG unless the PG owners specifically say otherwise, so the farting on food analogy makes no sense.

Are there numbers? I don't doubt your right, I've never bothered to check. I'm sure you have. So in that case, sure let's use the word 'norm'. Again I feel like we're arguing scemantics at the expense of not seeing the forest for the trees. FleetComm (the main topic of the discussion) is a PvE group. As is Solo. FDEV have stated they want folks to be able to 'play their own way', as opposed to CCP who clearly articulate their position by only allowing one mode of play.

FDev support will reimburse all sorts of human error too.
So what?

I'll have to take your word on this. I've been away from the game for over 18 months, so had no idea human error was cause for reimbursement.

I don't know of any measures they have taken against people breaking PG rules off hand, do you?
They seem to be specifically saying it's out of their purview/capabilities.
[/QUOTE]
I don't think FDEV publish this sort of thing do they? Even if they did, I probably wouldn't notice. As to the meaning behind FDEV's actions, we'll have to agree to disagree. I see it as tacit agreement that pvp isn't meant to occur in pve only PG's such as fleetcomm. Again I take the cynical view that FDEV are fairly inept when it comes to fixing broken things in their game, and use band-aids such as support tickets rather than providing in-game tools to proivde PG owners the means to define their environment.

 

[Kerissimo]

Wow, great job people, im so proud... Im happy i was at Beagle Point some time earlier all alone, before the distant worlds arrived at Sagittarius A*. I understand you might kill people in combat ships and in some twisted way you might assume they have not earned their ranksand their elite or even lower rank in comtat are joke, (there is logic in this statement) . So they should go play super-duper commanders in solo instead of showing in open. But killing unarmed explorers who can't even defend themselves... wow, that's low.

explorers have all the means at hand now to protect themselves

Yeah but people are getting killed by gankers often just because they havent expecting them. Im not sure if that was the case here, but you know, explorers might not been used to fighting.

 

[Lucien Trask]

That majority of players were fools then, unless they were knowingly and willingly taking the risk of getting ganked by infiltrators. PGs have been being infiltrated since there were PGs.

Does that make it right? It's still a bad move. Using cool words like 'infiltration' is a bit disingenious. It's not 'infiltration'. It's taking advantage of sloppy coding to do something the PG owners have explicity stated is out of bounds.