Should there be feminine imperial ranks/titles?

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VR Jay Le Chardon

VR Jay Le Chardon
Its been a couple of years sincethis was raised this initially, but I've been gilded into action by seeing someone on here, who I respect immensley for their contriutions, having "duchess" in their cmdr's description in their signature...

Don't get me wrong, I am an alpha male beardy bloke IRL, and in game I play a similar character, indeed my holo me could double as a photofit for me. However, I am acutely ware that there are a lot of players who are either a female IRL and their character in game reflects this, or their CMDR is female for RP reasons, regardless, they get masculine imperial titles as ranks. I'm hereby campaigning to get this changed. I know some might argue this isjust some other social justice warrior campaign, its not, I am something of a "conservative" / traditionalist, IRL I've actually been described as a cave man. Oothers might argue "but its Emperor Arissa Lavigny-Duval, not Emporeress", to whcih I say two years ago hald the galaxy mourned not "Lord" Kahina Loren, but "Lady" Kahina Loren.

How hard would it be, or unreasonable to ask frontier to put a simple checkbox in holo-me upon selection of a female body, asking if the CMDR would prefer male or female imperial titles, and then have that applied to the CMDR's status, eg: (rank 7, if gender =M; "Baron", if gender =F; "Baronness") ?

Personally as a middle aged bloke ranked "king" I look forward to being made a mockery of by many an ambitious lady/baroness/duchess etc... But if those women, either in game women or IRL women do not get their female ranks its no skin of my RP nose.

So how am I proposing to "make it so"? by keeping the thread bubbling near the surface of this section of the forum. Normally I welcome discourse on "my" threads, however I'm going to put it this way; if the only comments are those chiming in to say they support the idea of feminine versions of the ranks being made available, how close to the top it remains will be an indicator of how well supported an idea it is purporting. However, negative comments in new posts from people chiming in to say they disagree with the notions of the opening post of this thread and why they feel so inclined, will actually have the same effect and "bump" the thread back to the surface. So in essence folk chiming in here to say "FDev don't do it because X,Y or Z" are shooting themselves in the foot by keeping the thread current. If you don't like the idea, stay quiet, and the idea will die in a deafening silence.
 

GODofDUTY83

GODofDUTY83
Why not.
Hows about letting me choose the rank I want out of the list of those already available also instead of a forced progression label ?

Some ranks are however genderless and should remain so.
 

DDastardly00

D
I fully support this idea. I don't know how many females play Elite, but to some, I think it would make a difference.
 

Nihila Vex

Nihila Vex
I personally don't have any issue with the existing ranks.

I think whether or not the terms are gendered really comes down to a matter of usage. For example, in the real world of 2019 there are terms with previously distinct gendered forms which are being reduced to a single term for any person. The most prominent example is probably actress which, while still in use, is increasingly being replaced with actor applied to both men and women. This is only the latest in a long line of examples. Not that long ago you'd have a manageress in an office: now you just have a manager. A woman who killed someone used to be a murderess. Now murderer simply means 'one who murders'. And, an obscure one, there did used to be a term doctoress - but again, it's long since been abandoned in favour of just doctor.

The '-ess' forms are an evolution of the Latin '-ix', identifying a woman who does something. So for example an aviatrix is a woman who flies, as opposed to an aviator - you'll quite often see Amelia Earhart referred to as an aviatrix; whereas modern women pilots tend to just be called 'pilots'. A gladiatrix was a woman who fought as a gladiator. For that matter, my own ship is called Venatrix, meaning 'huntress' (though I've yet to skill up my combat enough to really live up to the name). Still though, if I was referring to an actual woman hunting, I'd call her a hunter (among other things).

So abandoning the specifically feminine forms of titles is an ongoing process, and it's one I personally don't feel is particularly disempowering. It means we concentrate on what someone does, or what position they hold, without any further qualification.

I've never served in any military, so I don't know how widespread it actually is in real life, but I see references in TV and film to military and paramilitary organisations, especially those based on the US Navy, in which ranking women are addressed as 'sir'. I'm thinking particularly of the Federation Starfleet and the Fleet of the Colonies of Kobol. It seems to work okay. And in a less high-tech setting, on the one occasion I know a woman has been knighted in Game of Thrones, she was given the standard title of 'Ser'.

(For that matter I'm sure I remember 'ser' as being the general honorific for citizens male and female alike in Wing Commander: Privateer. Do correct me if I have that wrong - it's been a long time since I've played it.)

As far as titles of nobility in the Empire go, it seems quite reasonable to me to suppose that in thirteen hundred years this process has encompassed just about everything, and most titles are now genderless. Obviously we could argue that the titles should be changed completely - see the modern use of server to replace waiter and waitress; or the above-mentioned pilot instead of aviator and aviatress - but I think a lot of actors, doctors and managers are quite happy to be and be identified as women while holding those titles.

A former character of mine got up the Imperial ranks as far as Count, and she seemed fine with that.

Obviously, disclaimer: this is just one woman's viewpoint. I have different views and different experiences, and different priorities, from the next person, and I absolutely don't want to diminish any thoughts she, he or they might have on this. I'm just saying that if it came to a vote, I'd say I'm happy that what we have now seems plausible for the setting.

Sorry for the wall of text.
 

Ouberos

Ouberos
BongoBaggins said:
No. Why can't a woman be king? Gender-specific titles are divisive and pointless
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Pointless division is pretty much the raison d'etre of Titles, so really there should be Kings and Queens.

Also I'm guessing they still play Chess in the Elite Universe. It's going to be a rather dull game if the most powerful piece on the board can only move one square at a time.
 

Nihila Vex

Nihila Vex
Dagwit said:
Why are people here assumng that there are only two genders?
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Speaking for myself, I wasn't:
Nihila Vex said:
I absolutely don't want to diminish any thoughts she, he or they might have on this.
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Though that said, since English-speaking societies and their predecessors have historically only recognised two, most of the titles that are actually in use, having evolved in those societies, are divided into two genders.
 
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