Unified Limpet Drone Control System and Drone System Revamp

[Exeider]

Unified Limpet Drone Control System and Drone System Revamp.



I would like to propose both a revamp of limpet system and how they behave and function as well as a Unified Controller. I thought on this for a while and I realize there are classes and grades to consider, and multi crew functionality can be expanded into something that creates a new role for a crew member as well as adding a new interface for the pilot.

Before I get into the controller, let me first describe how I’m suggesting limpet drones be changed in terms of behavior and quality.

Up to now Limpets have been thought of purely disposable craft of no importance when in reality they are the workhorse for a lot of different activities in Elite. They like our ships should be thought of as an extension of our main ships much in the same way SLFs are.

My proposal is that limpets be changed from disposable one shot items to reusable spacecraft of various design. A limpet drone will be able to be launched, ordered to do its activities in the role panel much like SLFs can and ordered to return and dock with the ship in the ship’s cargo hold. Drones will have a varying level of health and speed based on manufacturer and the player will choose what drone he wants based off the gameplay they are choosing to do.

To facilitate choice and player flexibility drones shall come in three flavors;

• Manticore GP-11 Drone – Manufactured by Manticore, this general purpose drone is the namesake of the Manticore corporation, it balances speed and durability and is the mainstay drone of choice for Commanders across the galaxy for its reliability and versatility.
• Bimini GX-7 – Manufactured by Falcon DeLacy, this drone prioritizes durability for speed, though slower than the standard drone, the increased resiliency is useful during intense mining operations with seismic charges or the occasional bump against a Commander in distress in need of repair and refuel.
• Finch D-4 – Manufactured by Core Dynamics, The Finch prioritizes speed over durability making it the fastest but least armored drone, useful for operations where high speed and maneuverability are a priority.

Each drone type can be mixed and matched based on the players need, with the player recalling the drone from the previous task and deploying the appropriate one for the next task.

Drones would be stored in their own dedicated bay and the Drone Control Unit would be more thought of like a Planetary Vehicle Hanger or SLF hanger. The total sum unit would consist of the Controller hardware (Which would be explains in the flavor text to contain the Drone Control Antannae, Command and Control System, and support linkages.), Drone Support and Storage (Contais the storage racks and charging/fuel refill system for the drones.) , and Expansion slot bays, to install specific task controllers.

To facilitate these new drones is the a Unified Drone Controller unit.

Currently there are 8 Drone functions

• Collector
• Decontamination
• Fuel Transfer
• Hatchbreaker
• Prospector
• Recon
• Repair
• Research

The controller will have the ability to contain subslots, the same way Planetary vehicle hangers have subslots, the number of which determined by what CLASS of controller you equip, While the Number of drones you can deploy at once and range is determined by the GRADE.

Class 1 = 1 subslot

Class 2 = 2 subslots

…

Class 7 = 7 subslots

-

Grade E = 1 drone (shortest range)

Grade D = 2

…

Grade A = 5 drones (longest range)

Drone control range is governed by GRADE, the higher the grade of controller will give a control better range.

Drone Control Interface and Camera:

If the player wants to take a more direct control of their drones OR, they have a multicrew member with the ‘Drone Controller’ role, they can shift into the DCI or Drone Control Interface. Much like the gunner orbit cam, the Drone controller sees their view outside and above the ship, using a point and click interface to target and order drones, a small floating panel has the different drone commands, and the operator can click the commands with their cursor.

Camera Mode:

This mode allows the drone operator to shift focus of the 3d orbit cam from the ship to the drone’s camera, Unlike an SLF the player cannot fly the drone as they would an slf, but they can use the point and click interface to move the drone around the area, their max play area governed by the max range of the drone controller.

Collector

The Collector function shall be the core functionality of the unified controller, meaning with no other expansion cards installed, the controller possesses the ability to send limpet drones out to collect things and return them to the ship.

Collection has two modes: COLLECT and COLLECT ALL. Collect will simply collect the targeted item and then return to the cargobay. Setting Collect without a target will audibly fail stating “Target Required”. Collect All, will cause the drone to fly around the local area picking up and retrieving anything that is not on the ignore list, drop it into your cargo and repeat until nothing is left to collector your cargohold is full.

The Role panel has a basic filter for what type of cargo the drone will pick up:

All,

Cargo,

Synth Materials,

Asteroid Materials.

This way you can set your material priorities without having to fill up your ignore list.

Fuel Transfer

Since the drones will be reuseable a fuel transfer drone will transfer 1 ton of fuel per trip, you can set the number of tons of fuel on it’s button in the role panel before pressing the transfer button (much like how you can choose to jettison X amounts of a cargo). The drones will transfer the requested number of tons of fuel in whole tons and stop either once the requested number has been reached or the target ship fills up, any fractions of a ton on the last transfer is vented and lost. The drone system will not allow the donor to transfer the last ton of fuel to prevent accidentally draining the donor dry. So you can if you wish transfer all but one ton of fuel in from your main tank. (so be careful you can still stand yourself if you transfer too much fuel.)

Repair, Decontamination

Function much the same as before, it’s button can be set to Repair Target or Repair Self by using the joystick or navigation key. Repair Target will repair the current target (No target throws an error message). Repair Self will order the drone to repair yourself regardless of your active target or lack there of.

Decon works the same way. Button defaults to whatever was selected last.

Prospector

Firing at an asteroid provides real time data on an asteroid’s composition, they are deployed and run to attach to the asteroid, they can be recalled by pressing the recall button or if they are set to “auto-recall” will auto recall back when the ship is close to max drone range.

Research

Works the same as it does now

Recon and Hatchbreaker

Recon drones run to a datapoint and hack it, upon completion of it’s goal it automatically returns to the owner.

Hatchbreaker, works in two modes, which is set in the role panel, Grapple mode and Breech mode.

Grapple mode, flies toward the target and once past the defenses and attaches, hacks into the cargo bay of the target, grabs a random 1 ton of cargo and returns it to the pirate (This could be anything, including limpets, canisters, even material from material storage.) Anything that’s in the cargo bay. There is a cooldown that must complete before the attacking player can do it again.

Breech mode, flies toward the target, grabs on, and the drone detonates, blowing open the cargo hatch, several units of cargo and material spills out into open space. This mode costs the drone, and has a MUCH longer cooldown before it can be used again. (a cool down long enough that most engagements will really only allow it to be used once maybe twice.)

They can be countered by point defenses or the player targeting the drone and try to destroy them, or use electronic counter measures which if successful, will immediately disrupt the command and control signals and change them to an INERT state. Assuming anyone is still around after the battle, they can be picked up by anyone who happens to be around.





Open questions:

• I am not entirely sure what the base range should be and what the maximum range, Grade A should be. (Thoughts?)
• 
  
• I’m wondering if hacking, either recon or hatchbreaker could have a simple hacking minigame associated with it (I don’t pvp so would like input from PvP players. Is this something you guys would like?)
• 
  
• Future concepts: With the advent of the camera modes, I’m wondering if the research and/or prospector drone could have its capabilities expanded in the future, with different ‘vision’ modes, allowing the player to investigate things, and look for resources. (Is this something people might like?)
• 
  
• Advanced Repair mode: A kind of repair minigame allowing for deeper then normal repairs? Modules like the powerplant or a broken cockpit glass? (Is this something people might like?)
• 
  
• Future drone card concepts: The previous descriptions was to accommodate the legacy functions of the limpets, but what kind of NEW functions would you like to see?

Any additional questions, thoughts or opinions I didn’t express here?



Thank you for your time. Please feel free to discuss.

 

[Lestat]

You know we already got an extra module slot. So like my Mining Python, I could add anything of my choosing without affecting my current build. So no on the idea.

 

[Exeider]

You know we already got an extra module slot. So like my Mining Python, I could add anything of my choosing without affecting my current build. So no on the idea.

What about the rest of it then? The behavior revamp, the Drone Interface, Role Panel, Drone's with different stats, etc? I'd like feed back on the total sum of the idea and not just one part of it you might not like.

This suggestion doesnt really address module creep per se, but a overall revamp of the drone system which is woefully outdated. There have been a number of game play enhancements since it's creation and is in need of an update/rethink.

 

[Dulcamar Solana]

I am one the players, who does not like specialized ships. E.g., I flew to Beagle Point some time ago. It would have been fun, to not only carry a repair controller with me, but also a collection and re-fuel controller. If somebody would have been around on my way, I would have been able to help him. There are even signal sources, where an NPC asks for fuel. It would really add to the game, if you could help spontaneously.

Yesterday, I was in the Delphi system. I got involved into the rescue scenario, but had to fly back to a station, just to replace a cargo rack by a hatch breaker controller and try again. This you call immersion?

Using a class 3 controller still means that you have to select the functions you might want to use. It is very unlikely that I would use a class 7 controller just to get them all. So, there is still some meta.

And since day one, I am still waiting to re-call a limpet to re-fuel it. This could cost a ton of your fuel... Better be a little bit careful about it. Makes even sense to add a fuel tank now.

So, all in all, this would make the game even more interesting.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

+1 great suggestion!

I was actually about to suggest something very very similar.

My idea was also going to a combat drone, which is basically a tiny tiny SLF that's really useful for use on Thargoid interceptor swarms. Basically our version of it.

 

[Exeider]

+1 great suggestion!

I was actually about to suggest something very very similar.

My idea was also going to a combat drone, which is basically a tiny tiny SLF that's really useful for use on Thargoid interceptor swarms. Basically our version of it.

I was actually going to add that too, so it could create the concept of "Drone Boats", IE, ships that have no weapons themselves but rely on drones to fight. (miners for example would only need the to use the occasional combat drone swarm to shoo away NPCs.)

I didn't add this into the suggestion because I felt this would get HUGE pushback, so I left it out on purpose.

I felt that this initial offering was already alot to ask for, didnt want to press my luck.

 

[Solko]

Unified Limpet Drone Control System and Drone System Revamp.

Spoiler: - Cut -

I would like to propose both a revamp of limpet system and how they behave and function as well as a Unified Controller. I thought on this for a while and I realize there are classes and grades to consider, and multi crew functionality can be expanded into something that creates a new role for a crew member as well as adding a new interface for the pilot.

Before I get into the controller, let me first describe how I’m suggesting limpet drones be changed in terms of behavior and quality.

Up to now Limpets have been thought of purely disposable craft of no importance when in reality they are the workhorse for a lot of different activities in Elite. They like our ships should be thought of as an extension of our main ships much in the same way SLFs are.

My proposal is that limpets be changed from disposable one shot items to reusable spacecraft of various design. A limpet drone will be able to be launched, ordered to do its activities in the role panel much like SLFs can and ordered to return and dock with the ship in the ship’s cargo hold. Drones will have a varying level of health and speed based on manufacturer and the player will choose what drone he wants based off the gameplay they are choosing to do.

To facilitate choice and player flexibility drones shall come in three flavors;

• Manticore GP-11 Drone – Manufactured by Manticore, this general purpose drone is the namesake of the Manticore corporation, it balances speed and durability and is the mainstay drone of choice for Commanders across the galaxy for its reliability and versatility.
• Bimini GX-7 – Manufactured by Falcon DeLacy, this drone prioritizes durability for speed, though slower than the standard drone, the increased resiliency is useful during intense mining operations with seismic charges or the occasional bump against a Commander in distress in need of repair and refuel.
• Finch D-4 – Manufactured by Core Dynamics, The Finch prioritizes speed over durability making it the fastest but least armored drone, useful for operations where high speed and maneuverability are a priority.

Each drone type can be mixed and matched based on the players need, with the player recalling the drone from the previous task and deploying the appropriate one for the next task.

Drones would be stored in their own dedicated bay and the Drone Control Unit would be more thought of like a Planetary Vehicle Hanger or SLF hanger. The total sum unit would consist of the Controller hardware (Which would be explains in the flavor text to contain the Drone Control Antannae, Command and Control System, and support linkages.), Drone Support and Storage (Contais the storage racks and charging/fuel refill system for the drones.) , and Expansion slot bays, to install specific task controllers.

To facilitate these new drones is the a Unified Drone Controller unit.

Currently there are 8 Drone functions

• Collector
• Decontamination
• Fuel Transfer
• Hatchbreaker
• Prospector
• Recon
• Repair
• Research

The controller will have the ability to contain subslots, the same way Planetary vehicle hangers have subslots, the number of which determined by what CLASS of controller you equip, While the Number of drones you can deploy at once and range is determined by the GRADE.

Class 1 = 1 subslot

Class 2 = 2 subslots

…

Class 7 = 7 subslots

-

Grade E = 1 drone (shortest range)

Grade D = 2

…

Grade A = 5 drones (longest range)

Drone control range is governed by GRADE, the higher the grade of controller will give a control better range.

Drone Control Interface and Camera:

If the player wants to take a more direct control of their drones OR, they have a multicrew member with the ‘Drone Controller’ role, they can shift into the DCI or Drone Control Interface. Much like the gunner orbit cam, the Drone controller sees their view outside and above the ship, using a point and click interface to target and order drones, a small floating panel has the different drone commands, and the operator can click the commands with their cursor.

Camera Mode:

This mode allows the drone operator to shift focus of the 3d orbit cam from the ship to the drone’s camera, Unlike an SLF the player cannot fly the drone as they would an slf, but they can use the point and click interface to move the drone around the area, their max play area governed by the max range of the drone controller.

Collector

The Collector function shall be the core functionality of the unified controller, meaning with no other expansion cards installed, the controller possesses the ability to send limpet drones out to collect things and return them to the ship.

Collection has two modes: COLLECT and COLLECT ALL. Collect will simply collect the targeted item and then return to the cargobay. Setting Collect without a target will audibly fail stating “Target Required”. Collect All, will cause the drone to fly around the local area picking up and retrieving anything that is not on the ignore list, drop it into your cargo and repeat until nothing is left to collector your cargohold is full.

The Role panel has a basic filter for what type of cargo the drone will pick up:

All,

Cargo,

Synth Materials,

Asteroid Materials.

This way you can set your material priorities without having to fill up your ignore list.

Fuel Transfer

Since the drones will be reuseable a fuel transfer drone will transfer 1 ton of fuel per trip, you can set the number of tons of fuel on it’s button in the role panel before pressing the transfer button (much like how you can choose to jettison X amounts of a cargo). The drones will transfer the requested number of tons of fuel in whole tons and stop either once the requested number has been reached or the target ship fills up, any fractions of a ton on the last transfer is vented and lost. The drone system will not allow the donor to transfer the last ton of fuel to prevent accidentally draining the donor dry. So you can if you wish transfer all but one ton of fuel in from your main tank. (so be careful you can still stand yourself if you transfer too much fuel.)

Repair, Decontamination

Function much the same as before, it’s button can be set to Repair Target or Repair Self by using the joystick or navigation key. Repair Target will repair the current target (No target throws an error message). Repair Self will order the drone to repair yourself regardless of your active target or lack there of.

Decon works the same way. Button defaults to whatever was selected last.

Prospector

Firing at an asteroid provides real time data on an asteroid’s composition, they are deployed and run to attach to the asteroid, they can be recalled by pressing the recall button or if they are set to “auto-recall” will auto recall back when the ship is close to max drone range.

Research

Works the same as it does now

Recon and Hatchbreaker

Recon drones run to a datapoint and hack it, upon completion of it’s goal it automatically returns to the owner.

Hatchbreaker, works in two modes, which is set in the role panel, Grapple mode and Breech mode.

Grapple mode, flies toward the target and once past the defenses and attaches, hacks into the cargo bay of the target, grabs a random 1 ton of cargo and returns it to the pirate (This could be anything, including limpets, canisters, even material from material storage.) Anything that’s in the cargo bay. There is a cooldown that must complete before the attacking player can do it again.

Breech mode, flies toward the target, grabs on, and the drone detonates, blowing open the cargo hatch, several units of cargo and material spills out into open space. This mode costs the drone, and has a MUCH longer cooldown before it can be used again. (a cool down long enough that most engagements will really only allow it to be used once maybe twice.)

They can be countered by point defenses or the player targeting the drone and try to destroy them, or use electronic counter measures which if successful, will immediately disrupt the command and control signals and change them to an INERT state. Assuming anyone is still around after the battle, they can be picked up by anyone who happens to be around.





Open questions:

• I am not entirely sure what the base range should be and what the maximum range, Grade A should be. (Thoughts?)
• 
  
• I’m wondering if hacking, either recon or hatchbreaker could have a simple hacking minigame associated with it (I don’t pvp so would like input from PvP players. Is this something you guys would like?)
• 
  
• Future concepts: With the advent of the camera modes, I’m wondering if the research and/or prospector drone could have its capabilities expanded in the future, with different ‘vision’ modes, allowing the player to investigate things, and look for resources. (Is this something people might like?)
• 
  
• Advanced Repair mode: A kind of repair minigame allowing for deeper then normal repairs? Modules like the powerplant or a broken cockpit glass? (Is this something people might like?)
• 
  
• Future drone card concepts: The previous descriptions was to accommodate the legacy functions of the limpets, but what kind of NEW functions would you like to see?

Any additional questions, thoughts or opinions I didn’t express here?




Thank you for your time. Please feel free to discuss.

Nice one, Commander Exeider!
I happened to have posted (re-posted, actually, since my original post from last year seems to be lost) a thread of similar nature.
Allow me to link it here, you might find it an interesting - albeit drawn out - read.
-> Suggestions RE-THINKING LIMPET CONTROLLERS - AN ELABORATED SUGGESTION


From my first glance it looks like you have approached the subject of redesigning limpets from a different angle then I did.
I was comming more from the angle of
"why do these damn things explode once they run out of fuel" (I invested some time in thinking about how to refuel them, as well as their life-time)
"why do we have to carry so many, why can they be lost in the first place?" (I thought about how they are a one-shot item)
as well as
"why does a controller quadruple in sice, but only gains one additional limpet to control? (Size 1 = 1 Limpet, Size 3 = 2 Limpets, Size 5 = 3 Limpets; though size 3 is actually 4 times as large as size 1, and size 5 is 16(!) times as large as size 1 (if you think about cargo racks as your starting-point, size 1 holds 2 tons, size 3 holds 8 tons, size 5 holds 32 tons); here I also had smaller ships in mind, which typical can not use Limpet-Controllers nearly as efficient as medium or large ships can; and I 'd like to see smaller ships to be used more.)



I really like the filter-option for collectors you suggested. I totally forgot about that.

About the different manufacturers, I am uncertain. I simply have not thought about that, I have in fact not thought about Limpets as space-crafts in the way you did, but rather as a module (most of which simply do not have a manufacturer listed).

I think I was a bit more conservative with how to implement the new limpet controllers, by placing them in a "Limpet Controller Array" (the name was suggested by someone else before, I forgot, who), much in the way you have to chose which fighters to put into your fighter hangar.
The Controllers I suggested (the Limpet Controller Arrays, rather) can hold way more individual Controllers (and thus limpets) then you suggested, however, I suggested a cost to this: limiting the number of Controller arrays per ship (two currently; more then two on individual, currently underrated ships), while each Array can only have like 4 different types of limpets on it.
I see that this needs some work, because there should be a cap of some sort.The idea of an Anaconda launching 24 hatch breaker limpets in on go is a funny idea, but only for 5 minutes.

Speaking of hatch breaker limpets: I am also uncertain about the hacking-game you suggest, I think the pilot of a ship under attack by pirates will have other things to do.... But thats an interesting suggestion maybe for Multi-Crewed ships... ?

I really like the idea of new mini-games associated with the limpets (hacking, for instance, if done right could result in no alarm going off), but I do not know how much work this is on Frontiers side, and if the invested time will also result in more fun at our end. In short: is the time they would need to invest to develop such mini-games well spend time, or wasted time. I really can not tell; but it definitely depends on the quality of the mini-games. And maybe it should be something that is optional, not mandatory.

About Limpet-Range: I think I went the same way as you: associate range with Grade (my numbers for E and A Grade are the current ones for class 1 E and class 7 A, giving the extreme ends of the range; B, C and D simply get some values in between of those two extremes).



All in all I think as long as Collector Limpets will become part of the actual controller, and the controllers be much more... condensed (Class 5 for just 2 more Limpets then class 1.. pfff!), I am fine, which ever way Frontier takes.


So, all that being said: Cheers, Commander!
Lets hope Frontier gets on with this soon! ... (one can hope, can one...)

 

[Exeider]

Nice one, Commander Exeider!
I happened to have posted (re-posted, actually, since my original post from last year seems to be lost) a thread of similar nature.
Allow me to link it here, you might find it an interesting - albeit drawn out - read.
-> Suggestions RE-THINKING LIMPET CONTROLLERS - AN ELABORATED SUGGESTION

Spoiler

From my first glance it looks like you have approached the subject of redesigning limpets from a different angle then I did.
I was comming more from the angle of
"why do these damn things explode once they run out of fuel" (I invested some time in thinking about how to refuel them, as well as their life-time)
"why do we have to carry so many, why can they be lost in the first place?" (I thought about how they are a one-shot item)
as well as
"why does a controller quadruple in sice, but only gains one additional limpet to control? (Size 1 = 1 Limpet, Size 3 = 2 Limpets, Size 5 = 3 Limpets; though size 3 is actually 4 times as large as size 1, and size 5 is 16(!) times as large as size 1 (if you think about cargo racks as your starting-point, size 1 holds 2 tons, size 3 holds 8 tons, size 5 holds 32 tons); here I also had smaller ships in mind, which typical can not use Limpet-Controllers nearly as efficient as medium or large ships can; and I 'd like to see smaller ships to be used more.)



I really like the filter-option for collectors you suggested. I totally forgot about that.

About the different manufacturers, I am uncertain. I simply have not thought about that, I have in fact not thought about Limpets as space-crafts in the way you did, but rather as a module (most of which simply do not have a manufacturer listed).

I think I was a bit more conservative with how to implement the new limpet controllers, by placing them in a "Limpet Controller Array" (the name was suggested by someone else before, I forgot, who), much in the way you have to chose which fighters to put into your fighter hangar.
The Controllers I suggested (the Limpet Controller Arrays, rather) can hold way more individual Controllers (and thus limpets) then you suggested, however, I suggested a cost to this: limiting the number of Controller arrays per ship (two currently; more then two on individual, currently underrated ships), while each Array can only have like 4 different types of limpets on it.
I see that this needs some work, because there should be a cap of some sort.The idea of an Anaconda launching 24 hatch breaker limpets in on go is a funny idea, but only for 5 minutes.

Speaking of hatch breaker limpets: I am also uncertain about the hacking-game you suggest, I think the pilot of a ship under attack by pirates will have other things to do.... But thats an interesting suggestion maybe for Multi-Crewed ships... ?

I really like the idea of new mini-games associated with the limpets (hacking, for instance, if done right could result in no alarm going off), but I do not know how much work this is on Frontiers side, and if the invested time will also result in more fun at our end. In short: is the time they would need to invest to develop such mini-games well spend time, or wasted time. I really can not tell; but it definitely depends on the quality of the mini-games. And maybe it should be something that is optional, not mandatory.

About Limpet-Range: I think I went the same way as you: associate range with Grade (my numbers for E and A Grade are the current ones for class 1 E and class 7 A, giving the extreme ends of the range; B, C and D simply get some values in between of those two extremes).



All in all I think as long as Collector Limpets will become part of the actual controller, and the controllers be much more... condensed (Class 5 for just 2 more Limpets then class 1.. pfff!), I am fine, which ever way Frontier takes.

So, all that being said: Cheers, Commander!
Lets hope Frontier gets on with this soon! ... (one can hope, can one...)

Manticore, the company is called Manticore, They also manufacture dumbfire missiles, cannons, multi-cannons, multi-purpose limpets, and Pharmaceutical Isolators.
I'd like to see the secondary companies get some time in the spot light

The reason I thought the way you did was because of the point about the module size increasing dramatically with the controller, I figured, what is all this space being used for if the controller boards could fit in my cockpit. Then I though, well drone storage racks, Surely drones would take up a certain amount of space, add in some extra room for hoses, connectors, actuator arms, everything you need to power, repair, refuel, rearm, and launch drones, should basically equal to a set space, X value, now the drone bay can hold X drones based on the size, the bigger the drone bay, the more drones you can have stored. The idea is that largers bays will allow you have a mix of drone types for use with the controller, currently as I have it written down you can have a max of 5 drones deployed at once, but that's not to say that you can't STORE more then 5, you might have several collector drones plus a prospector, or a series of research drones meant to scan various objects at once.

I was partially inspired by the WSKRS "Whiskers" probes from seaQuest. And the Drones from EvE Online. As I've said in other threads I used to work with CCP the makers of EvE and worked extensively with the drone system itself.

So I know it COULD be done, but the question is how to make it fit with Elite Dangerous' design schema and more importantly is the dev team willing and able to implement such a redesign.

 

[Flimley]

If only the last update didn’t actually include extra optional module slots, but rather, a ‘new’ ships computer software slot for the flight assist and advanced docking computer. We could of added to that new system with a software slot for limpet management. Giving our onboard ships computer control over the limpets function. For balance (giggles) the new software slots could have their own limitations based on the ships AI computing capacity... or whatever.
I think this would of added a new dimension to our ships.
1. Optional module slots
2. Core internal slots
3. Ships computer Software slots

Flimley

 

[Exeider]

If only the last update didn’t actually include extra optional module slots, but rather, a ‘new’ ships computer software slot for the flight assist and advanced docking computer. We could of added to that new system with a software slot for limpet management. Giving our onboard ships computer control over the limpets function. For balance (giggles) the new software slots could have their own limitations based on the ships AI computing capacity... or whatever.
I think this would of added a new dimension to our ships.
1. Optional module slots
2. Core internal slots
3. Ships computer Software slots

Flimley

I was thinking of something similar the other day, but I realized that it would be better served as part of a complete outfitting overhaul. So I moved it to my Outfitting overhaul design doc. The idea is that it creates a new core module called a Computer Core, which is upgradeable giving you a larger pool of the stat: CPU. All modules would have to be retrofitted with this CPU stat and builds would have to consider these two stats and not just Power.

Now the added benefit is that, this also allows the possibility of dedicated service modules if Fdev wants to. Let's say for example you want to have a module useable only by exploration ships for example, you give the module some insanely high CPU requirement that the exploration ship of course gets a bonus in, thus negating the cost. This was how we made one of the special types of cloaking device useable only by stealth ships, it had an insanely high CPU requirement something like 12000, which no ship in the game could meet. But the stealth ships had a 100% bonus to the reduction of the CPU cost of the cloaking device, which negated that CPU cost and thus ensured that only stealth ships could equip said module. (This of course is if Fdev wanted to go back to the old mandate of role based ship designs. Which of course, they dont seem to be, but the options is there.)

Either way, I felt that such a suggestion was outside of the scope of this particular suggestion so I refrained.

 

[DNA-Decay]

Can’t read all this.
But limpets need love.

 

[KylePanarid]

I like a lot of aspects of this idea- I think that being able to have every limpet function under one module might upset the game balance, but I will say that having to shove a load of limpets into your hold and hearing the 'collector limpet failed' message all the time while mining is incredibly tedious. It's also kind of ridiculous on ships that are used for purposes that don't otherwise require cargo space- exploration, bounty hunting etc.
I would definitely prefer a system where the limpets were handled more like SRVs and Fighters, with a dedicated space for them and persistence.
With this system, can you have multiple limpet bays still? For instance, during mining, you may want to use a prospector and two collectors, and with some ships you may have two low class slots you can use for that, but not a higher class slot if you want to have 3 active at once.

 

[Exeider]

I like a lot of aspects of this idea- I think that being able to have every limpet function under one module might upset the game balance, but I will say that having to shove a load of limpets into your hold and hearing the 'collector limpet failed' message all the time while mining is incredibly tedious. It's also kind of ridiculous on ships that are used for purposes that don't otherwise require cargo space- exploration, bounty hunting etc.
I would definitely prefer a system where the limpets were handled more like SRVs and Fighters, with a dedicated space for them and persistence.
With this system, can you have multiple limpet bays still? For instance, during mining, you may want to use a prospector and two collectors, and with some ships you may have two low class slots you can use for that, but not a higher class slot if you want to have 3 active at once.

My intent was like the shield generator or the guardian FSD, that you would be restricted to one limpet controller.

And yes, while all functions under one module might upset people, keep in mind it requires an exceeding high class module to do this, a Class 7. Now the beauty of this system is you can just cut it off at say class 5 and just say "You cannot have EVERY function, you can have most but not all, deal with it." and it wouldn't break. So it's designed to be flexible in that regard.

As far as actual limpet storage, this is something that I'm still wrestling with on my own, I keep coming back to where the drones should be stored.

Scenario A) Either as cargo. However this means that the player has to strike a balance between cargo space availability and drone versatility. IE having multiple drone "teams" for different tasks.

Scenario B) Dedicated drone bay (a non upgradable but inherit bay that ships will receive exclusively for drones.) However this runs into a hard limit and Im left to question, how much space is enough? too little? too much? Won't people cry, MOAR SPACE FOR DRONES, down the line

Scenario C) Dronebay in the controller (makes sense with respect to the class/space arguement.) If it's not upgradeable, then people will either want to equip a second controller for more space (which if it's restricted to 1 per ship, takes you back to the 'Scenario B' problem.) Or do we make it upgradeable, maybe allowing the use of any free expansion slots for more drone storage, so give the controller an inherit set amount of space, but allow this to be expanded at the cost of taking up a subslot.

Overall NEW questions:

• What do you think of scenario C? The question I have is what would be the maximum class that people would tolerate? IE How big would they go in their builds before they just wouldnt under any circumstances?
  
  
• I've noticed alot of the larger ships have extra class 5 slots, maybe that should be the maximum?
  
  
• What about smaller ships, how would they be affected by the limited class and slot choices? What should be the BASE drone storage that comes with a class 1 bay? Class 2 bay? and so on?

 

[Chaparral]

A simpler soution would be a controller that increases functions based on rating.
E - Collector
D - Collector, Prospector
C - Collector, Prospector, Repair
etc.
The size of the module would dictate the number of potential active limpets.
Firegroups would control functions.

 

[Exeider]

A simpler soution would be a controller that increases functions based on rating.
E - Collector
D - Collector, Prospector
C - Collector, Prospector, Repair
etc.
The size of the module would dictate the number of potential active limpets.
Firegroups would control functions.

I considered that, but you have 8 total functions and 5 grades. You'd have to double up thrice to fit them all in. Also this doesn't future proof it if they come up with a new limpet activity. And doing it that way, you'd have to find a A or B grade to get the function you want, and not all stations have all the grades.

 

[Chaparral]

I considered that, but you have 8 total functions and 5 grades. You'd have to double up thrice to fit them all in. Also this doesn't future proof it if they come up with a new limpet activity. And doing it that way, you'd have to find a A or B grade to get the function you want, and not all stations have all the grades.

No to tough to scale to fit.
E 2x
D 3x
C 5x
B 6x
A 8x

Modify the multipliers as more flavors are added.

The current grading mechanic on duration and range is arbitrary anyways given the purchased limpets are a static resource in terms of functionality and cost.

Applying grades = # of functions, instead of the silly - it's only going to last 760s concept (the limpets cost the same for every module grade right?) would make more rational sense.

But rational - that's the hitch isn't it?

 

[Exeider]

No to tough to scale to fit.
E 2x
D 3x
C 5x
B 6x
A 8x

Modify the multipliers as more flavors are added.

The current grading mechanic on duration and range is arbitrary anyways given the purchased limpets are a static resource in terms of functionality and cost.

Applying grades = # of functions, instead of the silly - it's only going to last 760s concept (the limpets cost the same for every module grade right?) would make more rational sense.

But rational - that's the hitch isn't it?

I need clarification, would you still pick which functions you want or would they be directly tied to grade? Like D grade is 3 slots and you get to pick which functions are those 3 or are you saying that to get hatchbreaker I'd have to get the grade that it's on, for example B?

If it's the former, then I dont understand how it's that different from Class determination. Grades are meant to distinguish modules that have improved performance of a function over baseline, while Class determines fundamental increas or decrease of a function. In the case of modules like FSDs this is a bit vague, they both jump your ship and while one class does it significantly better at the end of the day, they both essentially do the same thing. A better comparison is the higher and lower classes of SRV or SLF bay, which is what I based by thought on, a higher class of SRV bay has additonal functionality, IE can carry another SRV, while the higher GRADE of SRV bay has a reduction in mass, the better GRADE bay performs the same function just better then the lower grade. While the Higher class allow you to carry more. Now while that's the sematics of the definitions of words, functionally speaking, Whether you use Class or Grade, you're essentially saying "as the number/letter goes higher, you get more slots."

And if it's the latter, then again you're tying a particular function to a specific grade, which makes it pointless because the player would just rationalize forking over the additional credits to get the A grade that has all the features and why bother with lesser grades that have limited functionality. (Players would simply opt to not bother with grades B through E, if A will give you everything. This is poor design in my opinion.)

I don't quite understand the second part of your statement? What silly thing are you referring, are you referring to the limpet's life span?

Assuming that's the case, in my revamp Limpets would not be consumable but small reusable space craft similar to that of SRVs and SLFs, they would be recall-able to be refueled and repaired. You would have different types of drones with different stats to reflect this, made by different manufacturers, also much like SLFs.

 

[MK Regular]

Speaking of hatch breaker limpets: I am also uncertain about the hacking-game you suggest, I think the pilot of a ship under attack by pirates will have other things to do.... But thats an interesting suggestion maybe for Multi-Crewed ships... ?

I really like the idea of new mini-games associated with the limpets (hacking, for instance, if done right could result in no alarm going off), but I do not know how much work this is on Frontiers side, and if the invested time will also result in more fun at our end. In short: is the time they would need to invest to develop such mini-games well spend time, or wasted time. I really can not tell; but it definitely depends on the quality of the mini-games. And maybe it should be something that is optional, not mandatory.

The way I would like to see the mini-games added would be for them to be completely optional. Not doing the mini-game should result in the current limpet functionality, while successfully completing the mini-game would give a bonus of some kind (like not setting off the alarm as you mentioned) and losing the mini-game would result in failure (like failing the hack and setting off the alarm).

Continuing with the hacking mini-game example, if hacking into a megaship would have the possible outcomes:

• Not doing the mini-game would result in a successful hack attempt and the alarm being triggered
• Winning the mini-game would result in a successful hack attempt without the alarm being triggered
• Losing the mini-game would result in a failed hack attempt and the alarm being triggered

There would be an element of risk-reward to this, which would be heightened by the fact that you will likely need to be stationary (or at least not doing other things) while performing the mini-game along with the increased time required to do the mini-game.

As for the hacking mini-game itself, I propose that it be something along the lines of navigating a dot through a scrolling set of barriers (Flappy Bird comes to mind). If the dot hits one of the barriers, the hack will fail and the alarm will be triggered. Directional control of the dot would be achieved by toggling the vertical movement (either moving upwards at a set speed or downwards at the set speed) using the same button used to launch the limpet. The vertical speed of the dot and the size of the gaps in the barriers can be adjusted to set the balance the difficulty of the mini-game (faster movement and smaller gaps require better reaction times). There is also the option of having partial success cases, such as having contact with a barrier increase a detection meter instead of instantly failing the mini-game (in this case the player will fail the mini-game when the detection bar is completely filled) and allowing for a 'partial success' outcome if the meter fills past a certain threshold but is not completely filled. A partial success in this case could be a longer response time after the alarm is tripped, possibly being proportional to how successful the player was at the mini-game (i.e. filling the bar to 30% detection would give a longer response time than filling it to 90%).

 

[Exeider]

The way I would like to see the mini-games added would be for them to be completely optional. Not doing the mini-game should result in the current limpet functionality, while successfully completing the mini-game would give a bonus of some kind (like not setting off the alarm as you mentioned) and losing the mini-game would result in failure (like failing the hack and setting off the alarm).

Continuing with the hacking mini-game example, if hacking into a megaship would have the possible outcomes:

• Not doing the mini-game would result in a successful hack attempt and the alarm being triggered
• Winning the mini-game would result in a successful hack attempt without the alarm being triggered
• Losing the mini-game would result in a failed hack attempt and the alarm being triggered

There would be an element of risk-reward to this, which would be heightened by the fact that you will likely need to be stationary (or at least not doing other things) while performing the mini-game along with the increased time required to do the mini-game.

As for the hacking mini-game itself, I propose that it be something along the lines of navigating a dot through a scrolling set of barriers (Flappy Bird comes to mind). If the dot hits one of the barriers, the hack will fail and the alarm will be triggered. Directional control of the dot would be achieved by toggling the vertical movement (either moving upwards at a set speed or downwards at the set speed) using the same button used to launch the limpet. The vertical speed of the dot and the size of the gaps in the barriers can be adjusted to set the balance the difficulty of the mini-game (faster movement and smaller gaps require better reaction times). There is also the option of having partial success cases, such as having contact with a barrier increase a detection meter instead of instantly failing the mini-game (in this case the player will fail the mini-game when the detection bar is completely filled) and allowing for a 'partial success' outcome if the meter fills past a certain threshold but is not completely filled. A partial success in this case could be a longer response time after the alarm is tripped, possibly being proportional to how successful the player was at the mini-game (i.e. filling the bar to 30% detection would give a longer response time than filling it to 90%).

I'm glad I asked the question, this was the more vague parts of my thought I wasnt sure if the minigame idea would work.

 

[Exeider]

I have another reason why Fdev should make limpets a reusable space craft like SLFs and SRVs.

Paint jobs.

Just like SRVs and SLFs, they could sell cool drone paint jobs in the store that you could then equip to your drones and make them look cool.