I could certainly see myself buying one (or more) of these paint jobs. On a side note, can we get ship kits for SRVs, SLFs and drones too?
Unified Limpet Drone Control System and Drone System Revamp
- Thread starter Exeider
- Start date
Task-oriented Limpet Controllers to group functionality, with capacity being grade-dependent would be a nice touch.
Mining Controller: prospector + collector
Search & Rescue Controller: repair + refuel + decontamination
Piracy Controller: recon + hatch breaker + collector
Combat Controller: ?
Maybe a few exotic combo's with new functions?
Mining Controller: prospector + collector
Search & Rescue Controller: repair + refuel + decontamination
Piracy Controller: recon + hatch breaker + collector
Combat Controller: ?
Maybe a few exotic combo's with new functions?
That would be an interesting thing to see. If they develop multiple SRVs , they could create a kit for each one. Good idea.
That's a step in the right direction definitely, but I still like the more 'a la carte' benefits of the OP, it allows the player to create what they want rather then hunt down multiple controllers to equip the combo they want. or worse, petition Fdev to make the combo they want.
The idea is to get rid of the set in stone flavors and let the player create the controller they want. Tying it to class not grade ensures that there is still some sense of balance in that the more capable, ALL in one controllers will require a higher commitment on your part.
Someone made the point it should be capped at class 5 and it just not be possible to equip EVERY function, which to be fair I've considered and could live with if that's the concession to make.
I will agree that the AI for limpets is well honestly ; Limpets get stuck constantly, get destroyed just as easily, are slow meaning most people carry upwards of Two to Three 5A Collectors and are useless in a combat situation. On top of this their programmed flight path makes very little sense if you have ever watched limpets while in Camera mode they do a giant dip upon approaching the cargo hatch moving further away from the ship then needed then delivering as well as heading to the far back end of the ship first.
I will agree that Limpets have many very frustrating draw backs, for instance my mining vessel carries 756T of cargo and thus carries 756T of Limpets before I head out.
Synthesis of Limpets is a joke for 20T of materials you get 4 Limpets.
My suggestion for a fix would be to make any limpet out side of perhaps hatch breaker limpets either non-targetable by npc's or immune to npc fire especially from Point Defense.
I have personally sat in a conflict or high intensity signal source trying to pick up less then 10 items only to have my limpet drones destroyed instantly upon leaving my ship meanwhile My ship is taking hit after hit after hit all the while I am just trying to scoop up 3-4 escape pods.
I would also program collector limpets to not only stop being destroyed the the simplest of impacts like say from a rotating asteroid, but to also keep at all times a 3-5meter distance from any collision surface less its the players ship.
Lastly I have seen on many occasions limpets pass directly through my own ship only seconds later get stuck on an asteroid or on a piece of debris from an encoded signal source as the material has somehow got stuck inside of it or the asteroid.
I dont believe that limiting players to a single drone is how limpets should be fixed regardless of size or durability because most likley if something like this were to be implemented the speed of the drone would not warrant loosing 3drones per 5A controller vs having a single drone. This is less of a fix and more of a bandaid as we are 7+ months away from a content update we should be focused on fixing whats broken and not adding content.
I will agree that Limpets have many very frustrating draw backs, for instance my mining vessel carries 756T of cargo and thus carries 756T of Limpets before I head out.
Synthesis of Limpets is a joke for 20T of materials you get 4 Limpets.
My suggestion for a fix would be to make any limpet out side of perhaps hatch breaker limpets either non-targetable by npc's or immune to npc fire especially from Point Defense.
I have personally sat in a conflict or high intensity signal source trying to pick up less then 10 items only to have my limpet drones destroyed instantly upon leaving my ship meanwhile My ship is taking hit after hit after hit all the while I am just trying to scoop up 3-4 escape pods.
I would also program collector limpets to not only stop being destroyed the the simplest of impacts like say from a rotating asteroid, but to also keep at all times a 3-5meter distance from any collision surface less its the players ship.
Lastly I have seen on many occasions limpets pass directly through my own ship only seconds later get stuck on an asteroid or on a piece of debris from an encoded signal source as the material has somehow got stuck inside of it or the asteroid.
I dont believe that limiting players to a single drone is how limpets should be fixed regardless of size or durability because most likley if something like this were to be implemented the speed of the drone would not warrant loosing 3drones per 5A controller vs having a single drone. This is less of a fix and more of a bandaid as we are 7+ months away from a content update we should be focused on fixing whats broken and not adding content.
You clearly didnt read the full post, assuming you read the OP at all. I never once suggested that you are limited to a single drone, I suggested a single CONTROLLER, which can be customized to the functions you want and that it would control your multiple fielded drones that would behave more like SLFs, being reusable, commandable based off your orders on the role panel, stat based to the gameplay style their being used for and have a persistence that brings it more in line with SLFs and SRVs.
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someone pointed out the idea that there was space "left over" and have an internal magazine, so I made a chart of how that should pan out.
Source: https://imgur.com/gallery/04PcfZ5
Collection limpets that target one object should re-dock and refuel and not just expire.
Source: https://imgur.com/gallery/04PcfZ5
Collection limpets that target one object should re-dock and refuel and not just expire.
Wait, you saying there are actual unused stats just sitting in the game? You sure those magazine stats aren't being used for ammo or things like that?
Actually my suggestion is directly trying to fix what's wrong with it.
The limpet system currently suffers from these four major issues:
1) Module Creep (There are 8 individual mods for the 8 functions of the limpet system. This is entirely unneeded and hinders the development of future limpet functions because of further creep. And potentially leads to the dreaded slot creep.)
2) Limpets are consumable but not ammo (Limpets occupy this nebulous gray zone between cargo and ammo. My suggestion resolves this by changing them to a reusable, maintainable micro space-craft.)
3) Updating a system from launch (Since launch SRVs and SLFs have become a thing, my suggestion brings their design and behaviour to better match that of similar game sub systems such as the SRV and SLF to provide a more consistent game play experience.)
4) Updating the AI behavior. (My suggestion would necessitate the overhaul of the limpet AI. Since SLF AI is already in the game, the code for this could be repurposed into making the limpets 'smarter' without requiring Fdev to start completely from scratch.)
Sterling MH
Banned
The combining of limpets suggested do not hold up. Think it through a lot more.
Mining requires more than one limpet controller, because you can mine faster than the limpet can collect. So combining prospector and collector limpets are a waste of time. You'd take at least one collector more than that.
There is also the mechanisation. If you make the target configure the limpet appropriately, you can coalesce some limpets without needing to add yet more controls to tell the controller which limpet you want.
Hatchbreakers don't work well with anyone else. Theoretically they could combine with collectors, so that if you have a target ship, it launches a hatchbreaker, if you haven't targeted a ship, a collector. HOWEVER hatchbreakers are one-use items, so you can't afford to untarget the ship to loose a collector. Not unless the method of use would be to use hatchbreakers for a bit then untarget the ship and let it go while you hoover up the canisters.
Fuel limpets work well with collectors or prospectors, since the target clearly denotes what limpet you intend to use.
HOWEVER, overall, I think the only reason for a combination limpet controller is where you want to just be able to do whatever turns up randomly while you're faffing about in space. Hatchbreakers don't fit, you want to plan to pirate to bring them along.
Fuel limpets and repair limpets allow you to drop in to the distress call and help out. THOSE two go well together. And you can easily have those require a pass to the sidepanel or a specific keybind, just like you can have with night vision or chaff/ecm/heatsinks. If it includes the recon limpet, so what?
Combining collectors with the other niche and orthogonal limpets ALSO makes sense.
Hatchbreakers and prospectors really don't have a good reason for gameplay to be combined with others.
Note: if there were limited combining for reasons of "I want to be able to dip in to whatever I randomly come across that I didn't get to choose to find", there's no reason why they need to be able to do more than one limpet at a time. So maybe the combination could be done via a class:
Class 2: Two limpets combined, one active limpet at a time.
Class 3: Three limpets combined, one active limpet at a time.
etc
BUT, unlike the earlier poster suggesting that, they are pre-arranged combinations, not "any two limpets". This ensures that there can be no "OP" combination and mechanisation could be determined by the game design knowing that the limpets act a certain way, not by requiring the user set up 20 keys to fire off what can be an unlimited range of limpet combinations.
So in class 2, you could have
Science Limpet. Recon/Research Class 1
Roadside service. Repair/Refuel Class 1
Combat support. Repair/Decontamination Class 1
In class 3
Science Limpet. Recon/Research/Prospector Class 1
Self Service. Repair/Decontamination/Collector Class 1
Scouting. Recon/Hatchbreaker/Research Class 1
etc.
If they are bound to the same fire key, each one determines if it CAN operate on the target (this stil produces problems if there is a collector limpet in the mix: maybe it is always done last, or collectors are never included in a mix?) and the first one that does fires off. That would ALSO require a cooldown, otherwise a double click would expire a limpet, wasting it.
Mining requires more than one limpet controller, because you can mine faster than the limpet can collect. So combining prospector and collector limpets are a waste of time. You'd take at least one collector more than that.
There is also the mechanisation. If you make the target configure the limpet appropriately, you can coalesce some limpets without needing to add yet more controls to tell the controller which limpet you want.
Hatchbreakers don't work well with anyone else. Theoretically they could combine with collectors, so that if you have a target ship, it launches a hatchbreaker, if you haven't targeted a ship, a collector. HOWEVER hatchbreakers are one-use items, so you can't afford to untarget the ship to loose a collector. Not unless the method of use would be to use hatchbreakers for a bit then untarget the ship and let it go while you hoover up the canisters.
Fuel limpets work well with collectors or prospectors, since the target clearly denotes what limpet you intend to use.
HOWEVER, overall, I think the only reason for a combination limpet controller is where you want to just be able to do whatever turns up randomly while you're faffing about in space. Hatchbreakers don't fit, you want to plan to pirate to bring them along.
Fuel limpets and repair limpets allow you to drop in to the distress call and help out. THOSE two go well together. And you can easily have those require a pass to the sidepanel or a specific keybind, just like you can have with night vision or chaff/ecm/heatsinks. If it includes the recon limpet, so what?
Combining collectors with the other niche and orthogonal limpets ALSO makes sense.
Hatchbreakers and prospectors really don't have a good reason for gameplay to be combined with others.
Note: if there were limited combining for reasons of "I want to be able to dip in to whatever I randomly come across that I didn't get to choose to find", there's no reason why they need to be able to do more than one limpet at a time. So maybe the combination could be done via a class:
Class 2: Two limpets combined, one active limpet at a time.
Class 3: Three limpets combined, one active limpet at a time.
etc
BUT, unlike the earlier poster suggesting that, they are pre-arranged combinations, not "any two limpets". This ensures that there can be no "OP" combination and mechanisation could be determined by the game design knowing that the limpets act a certain way, not by requiring the user set up 20 keys to fire off what can be an unlimited range of limpet combinations.
So in class 2, you could have
Science Limpet. Recon/Research Class 1
Roadside service. Repair/Refuel Class 1
Combat support. Repair/Decontamination Class 1
In class 3
Science Limpet. Recon/Research/Prospector Class 1
Self Service. Repair/Decontamination/Collector Class 1
Scouting. Recon/Hatchbreaker/Research Class 1
etc.
If they are bound to the same fire key, each one determines if it CAN operate on the target (this stil produces problems if there is a collector limpet in the mix: maybe it is always done last, or collectors are never included in a mix?) and the first one that does fires off. That would ALSO require a cooldown, otherwise a double click would expire a limpet, wasting it.
Sterling MH
Banned
Alternatively, for collectors, where this pathing is the only place it is problematic, if there are more than one limpet collecting one limpet stays close to the ship, shuttling back and forth to a nearby dropoff point in clear space where the other limpets go to to drop off the collected items.
You see, the reason WHY the limpets go that way out of the way path is, I would assume (assuming they wrote the code the way I would have written it, if the result had been what we see), be so that when you have 7 limpets all collecting, they can path in the same way they always do, EVEN IF all the limpets were coming back at the same time.
Remember, the limpet has to slow down at the ship then reverse away, so if a limpet were too close and also coming in, they would collide and explode.
So that detour is so that no limpet will have to avoid another limpet when they're pathing right next to the ship. A ship, by the way, which could be maneuvering all the while.
If this were the case, then as long as you are "near" where you launched the limpets, my method allows quicker pathing. Since one limpet only is going to and from the ship, there's no collision problem, and since it is moving a smaller distance, one limpet will serve many other limpets, the limit of how many it can keep up with depending on how far away the debris is. Generally a LOT further away.
Well your point has merit, I was considering putting the functions on the limpets, and you just get the limpet designed to do what they are programmed to do. The reason I didnt do this was because of synthesis, and the fact that you can create more drones. Your idea would require a synth recipe for all the drones available, which would make the synth list even longer, plus I worry Fdev would try to balance it by having different synth requirements based on the drone. Point was, I quickly realized how out of hand and quickly that would get. Which is why I put the drone controller as having the functions, and the drones being generalized, albeit with the exception of their stat differences. The idea of the drone simply doing what it's been directed to do based on whatever controllers you have loaded.
The statements: "Mining requires more then one controller" and "Hatchbreakers are one time use" are of course are true but that's as the system is now, which why I suggest changing that. If a miner could deploy a small swarm of 3-5 drones, he could order say 2 of them to go from asteroid to asteroid while he directs the remaining 3 to collection duty. Or he could put all 5 on prospector duty till he finds the asteroid he wants then orders the swarm to collector duty, etc etc.
The idea is to turn what is a , Select controller and pull/push the trigger/button into something that gives you a more control, a little bit more management, and create a more symbiotic relationship between the 'mothership' and the fielded vehicles.
This would of course become even greater if Fdev ever creates mining SRVs and SLFs, the player would be busy using the mining SLF or "SLM" in this case, while your NPC man's the mothership and uses the drone system to support you.
a flip of this is if you put the NPC in the SLM and send him out while you take a more management role of the whole endeavor (working the drone system picking up stuff, prospecting and ordering the NPC/SLM to fire his mining lasers.)
My reason for suggesting it the way I have is because of two major reasons I've noticed from Fdev.
1) They want to give the player more choices in their gameplay and
2) The 'community' aspect, even if the only real person is the player.
The point of NPC crew mates is to allow a single real player to be able to benefit from the multicrew experience without having actual friends (god that sounds sad when I phrase it like that.
). How this would fit into this larger mandate is that the Limpet system would become more in like with SRVs and SLFs. From there this further develops the multicrew experience in two ways,A) Players real friends have yet another station to form a real crew. Pilot, Gunner, Drone Operator (Don't know what the fourth seat would be, maybe engineer or something.) and Fighter Pilot (obviously only certain ships could have this option and the fighter pilot wouldnt ALWAYS be out int he fighter so he could switch between engineer and fighter for example.)
B) Solo players will have additional roles to hand out to NPC crew. (There must be a reason you can hire 3 NPC crew mates even though only one can fly the fighter. Which tells me this is an unfinished feature. These additional NPCs can be set to run these other roles, again giving the solo player the benefit of the multicrew experience.)
In either case this gives you the player both the choice of the gameplay experience, Active/Frontline or Support/Management/Backline, while having the ability to dynamically switch between both by switching seats with another crewmemeber (Real or NPC.)
Heh, nice.
Actually, that's an awesome idea- it would give a better reason to have larger limpet modules.
I was thinking about that too XD some drone controller ship that just mess up the ship with no point defense.
Also on the main subject I think simple solution were just to add X fonctionnality per X module rank. with some limit. (already been pointed in this thread but I support the idea)
Keep modules as they are now , just have for exemple 2 function you have to chose when at the station for a rank 3 limpet controler. 3 function over a rank 5 , 4 over a rank seven ect .
I think it's not broken this way and reduce number of module you will use for limpets.
Lets hope but I think FD have some other priorities over the game.
General idea of revamping limpet are good tho but things have to be really well balanced not to become totaly op.
Nice one, Commander Exeider!
I happened to have posted (re-posted, actually, since my original post from last year seems to be lost) a thread of similar nature.
Allow me to link it here, you might find it an interesting - albeit drawn out - read.
-> Suggestions RE-THINKING LIMPET CONTROLLERS - AN ELABORATED SUGGESTION
From my first glance it looks like you have approached the subject of redesigning limpets from a different angle then I did.
I was comming more from the angle of
"why do these damn things explode once they run out of fuel" (I invested some time in thinking about how to refuel them, as well as their life-time)
"why do we have to carry so many, why can they be lost in the first place?" (I thought about how they are a one-shot item)
as well as
"why does a controller quadruple in sice, but only gains one additional limpet to control? (Size 1 = 1 Limpet, Size 3 = 2 Limpets, Size 5 = 3 Limpets; though size 3 is actually 4 times as large as size 1, and size 5 is 16(!) times as large as size 1 (if you think about cargo racks as your starting-point, size 1 holds 2 tons, size 3 holds 8 tons, size 5 holds 32 tons); here I also had smaller ships in mind, which typical can not use Limpet-Controllers nearly as efficient as medium or large ships can; and I 'd like to see smaller ships to be used more.)
I really like the filter-option for collectors you suggested. I totally forgot about that.
About the different manufacturers, I am uncertain. I simply have not thought about that, I have in fact not thought about Limpets as space-crafts in the way you did, but rather as a module (most of which simply do not have a manufacturer listed).
I think I was a bit more conservative with how to implement the new limpet controllers, by placing them in a "Limpet Controller Array" (the name was suggested by someone else before, I forgot, who), much in the way you have to chose which fighters to put into your fighter hangar.
The Controllers I suggested (the Limpet Controller Arrays, rather) can hold way more individual Controllers (and thus limpets) then you suggested, however, I suggested a cost to this: limiting the number of Controller arrays per ship (two currently; more then two on individual, currently underrated ships), while each Array can only have like 4 different types of limpets on it.
I see that this needs some work, because there should be a cap of some sort.The idea of an Anaconda launching 24 hatch breaker limpets in on go is a funny idea, but only for 5 minutes.
Speaking of hatch breaker limpets: I am also uncertain about the hacking-game you suggest, I think the pilot of a ship under attack by pirates will have other things to do....
I really like the idea of new mini-games associated with the limpets (hacking, for instance, if done right could result in no alarm going off), but I do not know how much work this is on Frontiers side, and if the invested time will also result in more fun at our end. In short: is the time they would need to invest to develop such mini-games well spend time, or wasted time. I really can not tell; but it definitely depends on the quality of the mini-games. And maybe it should be something that is optional, not mandatory.
About Limpet-Range: I think I went the same way as you: associate range with Grade (my numbers for E and A Grade are the current ones for class 1 E and class 7 A, giving the extreme ends of the range; B, C and D simply get some values in between of those two extremes).
All in all I think as long as Collector Limpets will become part of the actual controller, and the controllers be much more... condensed (Class 5 for just 2 more Limpets then class 1.. pfff!), I am fine, which ever way Frontier takes.
So, all that being said: Cheers, Commander!
Lets hope Frontier gets on with this soon! ... (one can hope, can one...)
I'd like to invite all authors of various limpet proposals to DM me links to your respective threads. I am going to set up a Discord for collabs, and I want to round up all the current Limpet proposals and suggest a Mega thread be created for them since this seems to be something alot of people have thoughts on.
Oh, hey, it's this thread again.