"Credits to unlock engineers?" #2

[Morbad]

this is definitely how the game has gone... it does not make it right however imo
un until fairly recently it was possible however to play the game in a manner which kept credits relevant - it has got harder and harder to do as the game went on - however it was not until 3.3 that it actually became impossible without chopping off what to me is an unacceptable amount of the game to play it where credits still mean something.

I think the game needs an economic overhaul and reboot, but I can't see them doing this.

Frontier has an extreme aversion to 'nerfs' or reducing the numbers that players perceive as meaningful. Credits are dead and I don't think they are ever coming back. Frontier will just keep layering alternate pseudo economies on top, to maintain some semblance of progression, without having to take any of the meaningless numbers away from those who have an irrational fascination with them.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

The PvP 'meta' is just a combat focus that has to deal with opponents who aren't intentionally hobbled.



The solution to that would be serious enough consequences for being shot down so that not being able to jump away would be an actual liability.



The only reason my CMDR is still part of the Pilot's Federation is that they won't let him leave.



I min-max my builds with the best of them, and I'm not in favor of faster ship transfer. I want there to be more than tactical considerations to combat, including PvP. I want overarching strategy, logistics, and attrition to actually matter.

indeed and perhaps i did not word it well... i have no problem with trying to build the best ship you can, i enjoy it myself in most games. the issue (imo) is that FD just let you take it too far, such that a min maxed ship is no longer compatible to play in the same pool with other non min maxed ships (if you choose to attack them).

the problem isnt with the players it is with the design. Games need rules imo and ED fails on that part more often than not. A min maxer should be sweating bullets for that 2% advantage if that is what they want to do, not a 100% advantage - or more.

and going back to topic, allowing credits to do this i think would make things worse not better with the current credit situation the game finds ittself in.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I think the game needs an economic overhaul and reboot, but I can't see them doing this.

Frontier has an extreme aversion to 'nerfs' or reducing the numbers that players perceive as meaningful. Credits are dead and I don't think they are ever coming back. Frontier will just keep layering alternate pseudo economies on top, to maintain some semblance of progression, without having to take any of the meaningless numbers away from those who have an irrational fascination with them.

I agree with most of what you say even tho we play the game very differently.
I also agree it wont happen in ED......... however the 2020 update...... I am beginning to wonder if 2020 wont bring ED 2 and make it a totally new game. one advantage of this is engine improvements and lessons learned from the 1st game could mean improvements with a clean slate.
LTP owners would get it for free of course. ED could carry on running, possibly still sharing parts of the BGS to keep running costs lower.

IF this was true it would both excite, and scare the crap out of me. whilst it could be so much better all bets would be off for features i hold dear - mainly VR but also the ability to play on my own or with a hand picked group of mates. without these - esp VR i would not play but David Braben recently does not seem interested in VR any more.

I dunno, 2020 is going to be interesting, but i think a reboot is a possibility.

 

[Dillon Fallon]

I think the game needs an economic overhaul and reboot, but I can't see them doing this.

Frontier has an extreme aversion to 'nerfs' or reducing the numbers that players perceive as meaningful. Credits are dead and I don't think they are ever coming back. Frontier will just keep layering alternate pseudo economies on top, to maintain some semblance of progression, without having to take any of the meaningless numbers away from those who have an irrational fascination with them.

I think this kind of covers why I shut down my original thread. My mistake was to mention credits in the first place in relation to unlocks since it was never going to go well that you can avoid gameplay by using something that's in easy supply.

Personally although I think the time taken to do the theory crafting and actual engineering is about right, the work that surrounds in seems to take up far too much of the gameplay for what it is.

 

[GreyAreaUK]

Forcing players to do otherwise contradictory things just to stay relevant and progress within the game by design is another

Apologies, I'm being a bit dim this morning, but what do you mean by that?

 

[WR3ND]

Apologies, I'm being a bit dim this morning, but what do you mean by that?

No worries. So, say if you have a particular allegiance in the game (which the game setting seems to encourage between the main powers, subset of power factions, and system factions), or as in my case, prefer to play as an independent Commander (purposefully avoiding having rank in the Empire and Federation), a significant portion of the Engineers are in effect cut off from being accessible in the game. You can get a more detailed overview of the Engineer requirements from navigating through here, if you're not already familiar with them. → https://inara.cz/galaxy-engineers

 

[Bob McBobblehead]

1,000,000,000 credits for a lifetime free engineering. No more material gathering.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Wait, we get stickers?

Wait, we can win?

 

[WR3ND]

Wait, we can win?

No, it's just flavor text – the stick and carrot, as it were, that apparently drives some of us to throw context under the progression meta bus. On the other hand, progression with the Engineers is often compulsory within the game, seemingly by design, so I would at least definitely prefer some other options that didn't necessitate contradictory gameplay and detachment from the game's context (lore, immersion, various allegiances, play styles, etc).

Essentially, I'd prefer if I didn't have to play the game as though my Commander is a schizophrenic psychopath (in clinical terms – not meant as an insult) to be able to still meaningfully progress.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

No, it's just flavor text – the stick and carrot, as it were, that apparently drives some of us to throw context under the progression meta bus. On the other hand, progression with the Engineers is often compulsory within the game, seemingly by design, so I would at least definitely prefer some other options that didn't necessitate contradictory gameplay and detachment from the game's context (lore, immersion, various allegiances, play styles, etc).

Essentially, I'd prefer if I didn't have to play the game as though my Commander is a schizophrenic psychopath (in clinical terms – not meant as an insult) to be able to still meaningfully progress.

Lore is close to meaningless to me. I never played any other Elite titles, never read any of the books, and never will.

Immersion is, by its very definition, entirely in my head, and I simply have no problems achieving “a state of deep mental involvement”, except when things like “connection to transaction server lost” show up on screen.
My only allegiance has always been to myself, so that’s never a problem either.
As for play style... hardcore casual. I’m as relaxed as I can be, even in the midsts of battle.

And I’ve long, long, since had all the various Engineers unlocked and at maximum capability, even long before the engineering update.

Or, I suppose I should say I had them all unlocked, prior to additional engineers popping up in Colonia - a place I still have not been. Though this will, eventually, change. I am currently out on the galactic rim, leisurely making my way around, and plan on crossing through Colonia at some point, at which time I’ll unlock and max out those engineers too.

 

[WR3ND]

Fair enough. Not an issue for you then. Cheers. o7

 

[williamyjk]

I actually like the methods for getting access to the Engineers. For example, some require combat bonds. I would never had purposely gone into Combat Zones. At first it was very discouraging. But then it forced me to learn, build my ship, learn how to fight, etc. Now I enjoy Combat. In another case, you need to mine 500 tons of material. Now I am a better miner. Gaining access to the Engineers forces one to gain new skills, explore more of the dimension of the game and gameplay. This is a game that makes you think.

 

[Dillon Fallon]

At this point, I do now think of my character as a opportunistic mercenary, because that's the only character that could have followed this pathway. If you want to stay loyal to something the answer seems to go out to Colonia and fill any gaps in engineering out there.

If it is to change, I feel like the only answer to this in the bubble is either more engineers, current engineers having more modules available, or we lose the links to factions and superpowers.

Personally I like engineers like Elvira Maartuk and Palin. On the edge, or away from real civilisation, seemingly not having anything to do with politics. Their unlock requirements make sense to me as well.

 

[xondk]

The only benefit I see this bringing is "I don't want to do x task, but I have enough credits to avoid said task" situations, basically allowing people to skip over gameplay that they do not enjoy.

And on that point as concept I think it is a bad idea in general, though I can understand why some might want to do that, since especially now credits are significantly easier to come by. But that is exactly why I feel it shouldn't happen, but yes I acknowledge that is from my own mentality that especially when it comes to games, I play it for entertainment to do things I cannot normally do, to get something required of me, because to me a game also asks something of the player, if i don't want to do what the game asks there are consequences, I enjoy being limited from simply having 'everything', especially when many other games simply throw stuff at you, at least to me, that gets boring.
I'm well aware of the ability to purchase yourself past something that you don't want to do happens irl, but at least to me, that doesn't seem to be a valid reason for it to happen in a game. It opens up for power leveling, which is just silly in my book, and right now credits are effectively our game xp, and flows in abundance.

 

[Schmack]

this makes no sense imo.
Open is meant to be a mode for everyone, and is not meant to be PvP mode, and this is why FD allowing the PvP meta to be so overwhelmingly strong is terrible design. Sure, 1 answer is to just playin a PG and that is what i do, but it is a shame that i have to give up any chance of proper player piracy.

The comment wasn't about Open but PvP.

But allowing players to build ships so tergetted to just 1 thing PvP - so much so they cant even jump out of a system I do not see how anyone can defend that. From an ingame perspective there is NO PvP because there are no players there are PF members and PF non members and any differentiation is meant to be because we are part of the same faction and not meant to be so we can pew pew at will.

There's no need to defend it. It's their game, they can do whatever they want.

The game isn't a maze with boxed in sides and one goal. It's an open galaxy and we can do pretty much what we want, when it works. For that reason I don't see any value in considering "in game perspective". It's such a malleable term it's almost meaningless.

of course it is the players generally who fly these insane builds who shout the loudest for instant ship transfer - because silly meta builds are unable to actually be fit for purpose.

I shout the loudest and I only play in Solo or PG. I even created a thread for it. I don't mean to be disagreeable with everything you say but broad brush statements often get debunked in the 1st response.

IF you truly believe the biggest gap is player skill and not meta builds then does that mean you feel an A rated vanilla vulture has even a remote chance against a G5 engineered A rated vulture? i would suggest even the most skilled pilot would have zero chance against even an average player in that scenario.

Hell yes. There are high end PvP pilots who would destroy the average Solo player, in the builds you mentioned.

G5 Vulture - average Solo player... rigs beams and flies straight lines and jousts, uses reverski.

A Rated Vulture - PvP ace... Uses FA off with chaff, silent running and heat sinks to gain the upper hand. See's reverski, uses that time to build shields and synthesize ammo.