One Foot In The Game [Legs Assets & Design Decisions]

VR Golgot

VR Golgot
Proposition:

FDev have deployed assets & design decisions in-game which are very likely foundational for a Legs expansion.

Why Collate Them?:

The 'ED Should Remain a Ship Game' brigade tend to glide over these existing additions. Seemed worth summarising them.

Evidence:

  • Cockpit entry and exit have been factored in:

    BadEasyBeaver-size_restricted.gif

    ^^Cmdr Chronicles animation seemingly using working game assets^^


    ^^Mini tour of the Courier cockpit^^


  • Multicrew added avatars & ship-share networking (including shared object states re menu holos etc)


  • The SRV is designed with entry / exit in mind:

    CgA5WuDWQAAjX3m.jpg:large



    ^^Unofficial fan animation of assets^^

  • POSSIBLE: The persistent NPC contacts (who could presumably be dialled up in live avatar form, with some more work)


  • POSSIBLE: The Anaconda's damage model. Possibly abandoned, but lines up with the talk & concept art regarding hull breach gameplay etc


    ^^Screenshot by Sphinx2K^^


  • BONUS: Braben has often mentioned that Elite is future-proofed to support up to 16k. So there are assets you can shove your nose into, in theory.

    Speculations:

    It doesn't seem unreasonable to assume that they have also kept an eye on back-end design and performance issues in the process as well. (Networking choices, poly counts etc). They may not have thought it all through well (witness the SRV / Multicrew farago ;)), but the way ED can let you fly past a space potato while running the game on an actual potato makes me think they've kept future expansion load in mind at least.

    Post-script:

    Some say it's too much effort to add Legs. And I get that. But seeing as they've put all this work in already, wouldn't it be a waste not to build on it? ;)
 
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Jaggid Edje

Jaggid Edje
Golgot said:
Some say it's too much effort to add Legs. And I get that. But seeing as they've put all this work in already, wouldn't it be a waste not to build on it? ;)
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Technically....no, it wouldn't be a waste not to build on it. See, in any business, you may have invested resources toward a future plan but then change course due to market factors, or a slew of other reasons. It's not considered "wasting" money to not continue to throw even more money at something that has been determined not to be a good course.
This is where the saying "Don't throw good money after bad" comes from.

I'm one of the people that think space legs is a stupid addition to this type of game. But that won't stop me from buying the expansion and walking about when they are added.
 

VR Golgot

VR Golgot
Jaggid Edje said:
Technically....no, it wouldn't be a waste not to build on it. See, in any business, you may have invested resources toward a future plan but then change course due to market factors, or a slew of other reasons. It's not considered "wasting" money to not continue to throw even more money at something that has been determined not to be a good course.
This is where the saying "Don't throw good money after bad" comes from.

I'm one of the people that think space legs is a stupid addition to this type of game. But that won't stop me from buying the expansion and walking about when they are added.
Click to expand...

Yeah I do appreciate the good money after bad principle. And agree that they absolutely could sack off all these efforts as misplaced.

I would note that the ongoing nature of the additions suggest they have not done so as yet though ;). (IE the Mamba's extensive interior came in 3.3 etc, and the highly detailed cockpits have been a continual theme generally, for example.)

PS I really want to use your last line as my signature now :D
 

Vasco Sapien

Vasco Sapien
Un1k0rn said:
Let's be honest. For every atmos thread there are ten space legs threads.
Click to expand...

Im not sure that any statistics are known... regardless, i said that Atmos was MY most desired update to ED.
I'd like Space legs, but Atmos is higher up for me. Im still not convinced that leak is real.

In an ideal world.... Fdev are making both Atmos and Legs a thing with the 2020 update and smash it out of the park!
 

Vardaugas

Vardaugas
Un1k0rn said:
I think a lot of people are more interested in exploring our ma-hoo-sive ships and the even more ma-hoo-sive stations.

I know I am.
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You can explore your ship but I guess the stations are mostly a pile of loading screens elevators and constrained areas.
 

Ian Skippy

Ian Skippy
Vasco Sapien said:
Im not sure that any statistics are known... regardless, i said that Atmos was MY most desired update to ED.
I'd like Space legs, but Atmos is higher up for me. Im still not convinced that leak is real.

In an ideal world.... Fdev are making both Atmos and Legs a thing with the 2020 update and smash it out of the park!
Click to expand...

DB confirmed they were doing preliminary work on atmo planets (and space legs) a few years ago. I wouldnt worry too much. Also, I doubt JWE and the new zoo tycoon are wholly unrelated to ED atmo...
 

Vasco Sapien

Vasco Sapien
Ian Skippy said:
DB confirmed they were doing preliminary work on atmo planets (and space legs) a few years ago. I wouldnt worry too much. Also, I doubt JWE and the new zoo tycoon are wholly unrelated to ED atmo...
Click to expand...

Its all within the same game engine isnt it?
So, technology transfer a thing.
 

Bloodsign

Bloodsign
I think unless something derails the game entirely we'll eventually get both Space Legs and Atmo Landings, both of these have been talked about forever as being part of the final vision.

Looking forward to it, because my favorite scenario is crash landing survival. (Kinda needs both...) :)
 

VR Golgot

VR Golgot
Vasco Sapien said:
That leak said nothing about Atmosphere landing. My most desired update to ED.
:(
Click to expand...

Hey, start your own 'Never Fear! Atmospheres Are Here!' thread ;)

(Which could totally be done given the volumetric tech added recently etc :))

The point of this thread is to highlight the overt existing Legs groundwork though. As some guys seem adamant the game has been designed purely as a 'ship game'...
 

Lightspeed

Lightspeed
This is a great compilation.

A lot points to "legs in ships" rather than "legs on planets" doesn't it? Although the travelator, or elavator, can get the pilot from ship to ground, maybe there will be a cutscene as he enters the SRV. We don't see any evidence of running around on the surface (yet), except inside stations. That would be good, of course, better than we have now.

So long as they introduce life into space ports, similar to what we see in crowd scenes in Jurassic Park and Planet Coaster. The sound of controller voices made a step change in that direction, seeing people (even if we don't interact with them) will make another.

Then there is all the gear available in the shop for the avatars, and the avatar creator itself. That's too much work for not incorporating it further into the game.

A big tease would be for FD to sell customized strap-on gas tanks, or face masks :giggle:

I was trying to think of what clues point to Atmospheric Planets. Not a lot so far:

The planetary landing "glide sequence" is a big nod in that direction .... just change the color to a fiery glow as the ship enters atmosphere.

Then there is the volumetric cloud of Lagrange clouds, and lightning, which can be seen as adaptable to gas giants.

We already see dust clouds in craters and valleys on some planets, and vapor mist rises in some rare instances.
 
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Athum

Athum
Lightspeed said:
This is a great compilation.

A lot points to "legs in ships" rather than "legs on planets" doesn't it? Although the travelator, or elavator, can get the pilot from ship to ground, maybe there will be a cutscene as he enters the SRV. We don't see any evidence of running around on the surface (yet), except inside stations. That would be good, of course, better than we have now.

So long as they introduce life into space ports, similar to what we see in crowd scenes in Jurassic Park and Planet Coaster. The sound of controller voices made a step change in that direction, seeing people (even if we don't interact with them) will make another.

Then there is all the gear available in the shop for the avatars, and the avatar creator itself. That's too much work for not incorporating it further into the game.

A big tease would be for FD to sell customized strap-on gas tanks, or face masks :giggle:

I was trying to think of what clues point to Atmospheric Planets. Not a lot so far:

The planetary landing "glide sequence" is a big nod in that direction .... just change the color to a fiery glow as the ship enters atmosphere.

Then there is the volumetric cloud of Lagrange clouds, and lightning, which can be seen as adaptable to gas giants.

We already see dust clouds in craters and valleys on some planets, and vapor mist rises in some rare instances.
Click to expand...


I think vapour on the stations or fumaroles and light mist up in the skies of some icy moons may point towards the atmosphere development too.
 

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VR Golgot

VR Golgot
Cocalarix said:
Great job on this Golgot. Makes it easier to picture Space Legs in Elite.
Click to expand...

Cheers C :)

Just added persistent NPCs as possibility too, as I figure at minimum the 'dialling up' process is all there re visual factors etc. (Although I remember Sandro being unclear on whether the menu avs used the same tech rolodex as the Cmdr avatars ;))


Lightspeed said:
This is a great compilation.

A lot points to "legs in ships" rather than "legs on planets" doesn't it? Although the travelator, or elavator, can get the pilot from ship to ground, maybe there will be a cutscene as he enters the SRV. We don't see any evidence of running around on the surface (yet), except inside stations. That would be good, of course, better than we have now.

So long as they introduce life into space ports, similar to what we see in crowd scenes in Jurassic Park and Planet Coaster. The sound of controller voices made a step change in that direction, seeing people (even if we don't interact with them) will make another.

Then there is all the gear available in the shop for the avatars, and the avatar creator itself. That's too much work for not incorporating it further into the game.

A big tease would be for FD to sell customized strap-on gas tanks, or face masks :giggle:
Click to expand...

Cheers L :)

I've always assumed the SRV door meant planetary access was intended, but thinking about it that is an assumption. It could just be for boarding etc while inside the ship like you say.

(Think you're right to ponder transitions for ship internals. I'd be fairly amazed if they managed to get a seamless scenario. I'm still kinda amazed that they even pitched hull breaching*, as allowing object transit between the the ship entity and the main world must be pretty tricky technically. I'm kinda presuming there'll be 'airlocks' to hide transitions at minimum.)

*Which just reminded me to add the Anaconda model to the list :D. (It does make me wonder whether they'll go for dual instancing within the ship? IE an internal core which doesn't have to account for all the space goings on, and then the cockpit & outer passageways by the hull which does. The 'Conda modelling seems kinda suggestive of that).

EDIT: I wouldn't even have thought stations were coming in 2020, if it weren't for these possible signs in the current files. Again, a huge task as you say, and certainly one that would have to be compartmentalised, and only a partial representation. I figured they'd split DLCs into 'ships' & 'stations' as per the old roadmap. But never know ;)

Lightspeed said:
I was trying to think of what clues point to Atmospheric Planets. Not a lot so far:

The planetary landing "glide sequence" is a big nod in that direction .... just change the color to a fiery glow as the ship enters atmosphere.

Then there is the volumetric cloud of Lagrange clouds, and lightning, which can be seen as adaptable to gas giants.

We already see dust clouds in craters and valleys on some planets, and vapor mist rises in some rare instances.
Click to expand...

That list is already a decent sign of intent for Atmos IMO. I think you could almost add the geological factors used to generate the current tech (& the proposed features of the ice revamp) as signs of a system that's in the right place for further 'simulation' etc, at a stretch.

The reason I made this list though is because few people deny the obvious intent within the game for planetary modelling. But some seem determined to ignore the Legs frameworks, likely because they're opposed to it happening at all ;)
 
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bitstorm

bitstorm
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Rick6549

Rick6549
You can tell they have at least been preparing, there are so many small details (some you can only barely see with the freecam, like the Mamba) that would never have any use unless you could get out of the chair.
 
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