This game needs small ornithopods and has been completely absent in this category.

[jfraatz]

Jurassic World Evolution seems to have fleshed out most of the major dinosaur groups. In some cases this has even been a bit excessive, (I love them so I'm not complaining, but we don't really need more large carnivores for example). However after comparing known dinosaurs to the ones in the game, there is one major group I have noticed that not only has a lack of development in it, but that it is entirely missing from the game altogether, the small ornithopods. There are small herbivores, ornithomimids and pachycephalosaurs, but these are theropods and marginocephalians respectively, leaving the small ornithopod group conspicuously absent.

I'm wondering why this is as they are definitely as high profile as small theropods, and even have multiple book canon examples. Thoughts on why this might be?

Anyway, to fill in this large hole, I'd like to propose a small ornithopod DLC, using the three small ornithopods seen in the book canon. The smaller two of these are comparable to Troodon in size and so can definitely be added to the game. Here they are with their sizes and digsites.

Dryosaurus altus
Morrison Formation
4.3 meters (14 feet)

Hypsilophodon foxii
Isle of Wight Formation
1.8 meters (6 feet)

Othnielia rex
Morrison Formation
2 meters (6.6 feet)

What do you think of these suggestions for a small ornithopod DLC? Should the addition of small ornithopods into the game be pressed for with Frontier? Also why do you suppose this category has been thus far completely absent from the game?

 

[JurassicMan1984]

I agree. Small ornithopods are still missing in the actual game and we definetly need them to be added.

This is a good starting list but i thin we coukd get some more than only three of them.

Maybe going to be added in the future as well:
1. Zephyrosaurus
2. Heterodontosaurus
3. Lesothosaurus

 

[jfraatz]

I agree. Small ornithopods are still missing in the actual game and we definetly need them to be added.

This is a good starting list but i thin we coukd get some more than only three of them.

Maybe going to be added in the future as well:
1. Zephyrosaurus
2. Heterodontosaurus
3. Lesothosaurus

I like that! That addition would actually include the two other major branches of small ornithopod other than the "hypsilophodont" line, the heterodontosaur line and the fabrosaur line. Both of those are reasonably close in size to Troodon to be included into the game.

Also to flesh this out a bit, perhaps Orodromeus, Parksosaurus, and Thescelosaurus would be good additions to flesh this out as well. Who knows, 9 may be too many (though given the range in the large carnivore section maybe not lol), but I will at least put them up as names to toss into the ring of possibilities.

 

[LordTrilobite]

We could definitely use some smaller herbivores for sure. Personally I'd like to see the dwarf hadrosaur Telmatosaurus from Romania. Dryosaurus would indeed also be a very nice addition.

Othnielia shouldn't be added though, it's a dubious genus.

 

[Alan_Grady]

We could definitely use some smaller herbivores for sure. Personally I'd like to see the dwarf hadrosaur Telmatosaurus from Romania. Dryosaurus would indeed also be a very nice addition.

Othnielia shouldn't be added though, it's a dubious genus.

So are Pachycephalosaurus, Stygimoloch and Dracorex. Not to mention Torosaurus and Triceratops.

Othnielia is at least (novel) canon.

 

[LordTrilobite]

So are Pachycephalosaurus, Stygimoloch and Dracorex. Not to mention Torosaurus and Triceratops.

Othnielia is at least (novel) canon.

I agree that some of those are likely juvenile forms of another. But much of it is still up for debate. It seems Dracorex is possibly a juvenile of Pachycephalosaurus. But recently Pete Larson was working on a beautiful new specimen of Stigimoloch and he was adamant that it was distinct from Pachycephalosaurus. It includes a disarticulated skull. So it's kinda still up in the air. As far as I know these genusses are also not strictly speaking classified as dubious names.
Triceratops and Torosaurus is also not as clear cut. It would be quite weird if these are the same genus because of the opening of the fenestra in the frill during growth. This is not something that seems to happen in other ceratopsians. For example there is a wonderful fossil of a baby Chasmosaurus that already has open fenestra in it's frill similar to Torosaurus. If Triceratops is juvenile Torosaurus it's weird that those fenestra only opened up at a very late stage in life. I remain unconvinced that these are the same animal.

But Othnielia is a different situation. As far as I know there kinda just isn't enough material with diagnostic features to warrant a valid genus.

 

[jfraatz]

I agree that some of those are likely juvenile forms of another. But much of it is still up for debate. It seems Dracorex is possibly a juvenile of Pachycephalosaurus. But recently Pete Larson was working on a beautiful new specimen of Stigimoloch and he was adamant that it was distinct from Pachycephalosaurus. It includes a disarticulated skull. So it's kinda still up in the air. As far as I know these genusses are also not strictly speaking classified as dubious names.
Triceratops and Torosaurus is also not as clear cut. It would be quite weird if these are the same genus because of the opening of the fenestra in the frill during growth. This is not something that seems to happen in other ceratopsians. For example there is a wonderful fossil of a baby Chasmosaurus that already has open fenestra in it's frill similar to Torosaurus. If Triceratops is juvenile Torosaurus it's weird that those fenestra only opened up at a very late stage in life. I remain unconvinced that these are the same animal.

But Othnielia is a different situation. As far as I know there kinda just isn't enough material with diagnostic features to warrant a valid genus.

You're probably right concerning Othnielia, though being a dubious genus it is still up in the air in its own right. The reason I added it though was because it was book canon.

 

[LordTrilobite]

You're probably right concerning Othnielia, though being a dubious genus it is still up in the air in its own right. The reason I added it though was because it was book canon.

Book canon sure. But in science that's not how it works. Finding more material wouldn't help because if a name is attached to fragmentary remains that aren't properly identifiable then the name will be labeled dubious. Generally the name is only kept as a footnote of history to label those bones but the name is not used for any actual animal anymore in favour of another name that is attached to good bone material that is identifiable.

 

[jfraatz]

Book canon sure. But in science that's not how it works. Finding more material wouldn't help because if a name is attached to fragmentary remains that aren't properly identifiable then the name will be labeled dubious. Generally the name is only kept as a footnote of history to label those bones but the name is not used for any actual animal anymore in favour of another name that is attached to good bone material that is identifiable.

Ah I see. That is reasonable I suppose. I didn't know the remains were that bad that it was unresolvable. Orodromeus or Heterodontosaurus as a replacement then perhaps?

 

[LordTrilobite]

Ah I see. That is reasonable I suppose. I didn't know the remains were that bad that it was unresolvable. Orodromeus or Heterodontosaurus as a replacement then perhaps?

While I'd love to see Heterodontosaurus it's probably too small. It would be nice to have more African dinosaurs though. But it would likely have to be scaled up.

Around 2 to 3 meters long is probably the lower end of what will fit the game properly. So even Hypsilophodon is kinda pushing it and would likely need to be scaled up.

But there are plenty of decently sized Ornithischians to pick from. Of course the much mentioned Dryosaurus is a very good pick. And while we kinda already have plenty of Hell Creek dinosaurs, the Thescelosaurus would also be very suitable. One of my personal picks would also be Telmatosaurus, a dwarf Hadrosaur from Europe at 5 meters. Maybe a Rhabdodontid Ornithopod like Rabdodon or Zalmoxes.
Or perhaps on of the larger Psittacosaurus species since we don't have any early ceratopsians. Perhaps some different Pachycephalosaurs? The only ones we have might actually be the same animal. So perhaps Stegoceras and Homalocephale.
Some of these aren't Ornithopods but they fill similar slots in the game. But still plenty of choices without resorting to the very small.

 

[jfraatz]

While I'd love to see Heterodontosaurus it's probably too small. It would be nice to have more African dinosaurs though. But it would likely have to be scaled up.

Around 2 to 3 meters long is probably the lower end of what will fit the game properly. So even Hypsilophodon is kinda pushing it and would likely need to be scaled up.

But there are plenty of decently sized Ornithischians to pick from. Of course the much mentioned Dryosaurus is a very good pick. And while we kinda already have plenty of Hell Creek dinosaurs, the Thescelosaurus would also be very suitable. One of my personal picks would also be Telmatosaurus, a dwarf Hadrosaur from Europe at 5 meters. Maybe a Rhabdodontid Ornithopod like Rabdodon or Zalmoxes.
Or perhaps on of the larger Psittacosaurus species since we don't have any early ceratopsians. Perhaps some different Pachycephalosaurs? The only ones we have might actually be the same animal. So perhaps Stegoceras and Homalocephale.
Some of these aren't Ornithopods but they fill similar slots in the game. But still plenty of choices without resorting to the very small.

Well keep in mind, Stegoceras and Homalocephale are both about the same size as Hypsilophodon as is Psittacosaurus. However I think Hypsilophodon isn't really that much of a problem being about Troodon size. I would like to see Telmatosaurus and Rhabdodon or Zalmoxes too, though I was thinking more here things in the traditional "hypsilophodont" category.

Dryosaurus and Thescelosaurus would definitely be good picks though.

 

[jfraatz]

While I'd love to see Heterodontosaurus it's probably too small. It would be nice to have more African dinosaurs though. But it would likely have to be scaled up.

Around 2 to 3 meters long is probably the lower end of what will fit the game properly. So even Hypsilophodon is kinda pushing it and would likely need to be scaled up.

But there are plenty of decently sized Ornithischians to pick from. Of course the much mentioned Dryosaurus is a very good pick. And while we kinda already have plenty of Hell Creek dinosaurs, the Thescelosaurus would also be very suitable. One of my personal picks would also be Telmatosaurus, a dwarf Hadrosaur from Europe at 5 meters. Maybe a Rhabdodontid Ornithopod like Rabdodon or Zalmoxes.
Or perhaps on of the larger Psittacosaurus species since we don't have any early ceratopsians. Perhaps some different Pachycephalosaurs? The only ones we have might actually be the same animal. So perhaps Stegoceras and Homalocephale.
Some of these aren't Ornithopods but they fill similar slots in the game. But still plenty of choices without resorting to the very small.

Heterodontosaurus might be pushing it but I think it is still within reasonable size, being only a little smaller than Troodon.

 

[jfraatz]

Have small ornithopods been suggested before for JWE that anyone knows of?

 

[LordTrilobite]

Have small ornithopods been suggested before for JWE that anyone knows of?

They get suggested literally all the time. Dryosaurus is probably the third most popular dinosaur suggestion after Albertosaurus and Ouranosaurus.